Davis and Wells - Getting it home!

[Jeff Carmi]

Hi everyone!

This is my first post and I should first say "Thanks!" to all who often post here, as I've learned so much from all the good threads.

I'm going to purchase a 20" Davis and Wells bandsaw today. (Well, I am going to check it out first, but hopes and expectations are high!) This will be my first big machine, as I'm a Festool and hand tools shop. I feel like I'm making the right choice and I've been looking for either this or a Walker-Turner for a while. New machines are out for me, for several reason. But I won't get into that here.

I've researched endlessly, so I think I've got a good grasp on what to look for in a old/used machine. Of course, any pointers would be helpful, but what I'm not sure about is the BEST way to move this thing. There are a bunch of threads here regarding this topic, but I couldn't find any that addressed moving an old cast saw (with a cabinet). My search turned up info on moving new steel steel saws, but I'm not too sure about putting my soon-to-be cast beauty on her back, as is suggested for the newer saws. I'm thinking it'd be best to keep her upright and well braced during transport (16 miles).

I've got access to a flat-bed roll-back truck (flat bed trailer) with a winch. If transporting upright IS the way to got (which is what I'm not sure of) then I could roll it up the flat-bed with a pallet jack or dolly (like a car) and use the winch for assistance up and down the ramp. Of course a good deal of straps will hold her in place.

Please let me know what you guys think! Obviously I wouldn't be asking if I had money to pay another guy to do it, so budget is a consideration. However, I want to do what's best for the saw. So let me know! Thanks in advance!

-Jeff

[Cary Falk]

I have seen people haul them upright or on the back. Whatever you do remove the table so you dont crack the trunnions if you hit a bump. I would be tempted to remove the motor as well.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I hauled my Oliver, 800 plus miles standing up. They are pretty top heavy, so be careful going up and down ramps. It's pretty easy to go over center of gravity. I did not take the table off my machine, but it is built such that there was no way it was breaking trunions. It is probably completely different for other saws.

[Jeff Carmi]

So I just checked it out and think I've got the loading/hauling situation under control. Thanks for your suggestions!

Now I've got a few questions, of course...

I spoke with Dan at Davis & Wells in LA and he said it wouldn't compromise the saw, but I found a good 2"-plus hole under the table, behind the upper-right of the lower tire, facing the trunnion. I'm thinking someone just did a sloppy job with a dust collection solution, but I want to be certain the saw is ok. Any thoughts?

The wheels are totally out of alignment and I stopped the guy from starting it up before checking the tracking. Sure enough, with a few turns the blade started running off the front of the upper wheel. The tires seem shot as well - the upper has a distinct change of plane but the lower is fairly flat, with a small crown, but not necessarily even. It's missing the thrust bearing and the guide blocks should probably be replaced. The motor sounds sweet (took the blade off before running) but is only 1HP, so that'll need upgrading as soon as I can afford 220v power. The lower wheel cover has a good bite from the blade digging in a bit, but I'm not worried. Also some rust on the table.

My biggest concern is the hole in the body and wether or not that will adversely affect the saw's performance. Also, there is minor rust on the table which is will be easy to clean, but it looks like there might be pitting in the miter slot. Is this a concern? The cost of replacing and vulcanizing the tires could be costly - any estimates out there? - but I can live with guide parts and some nuts and bolts here and there.

Please let me know what you all think. Thanks in advance!

[Sam Layton]

Hi Jeff,

Welcome to the creek.

I have a Davis and Wells bandsaw as well. I purchased it some time ago, and am about ready to restore it. Mine does not have the same base that yours has. Mine has the mermaid tail type base. I have a truck, but I did not want to lift it that high. I rented a small u-hall trailer that had a ramp, and was close to the ground. I don't remember how much it was, but was not expensive.

I removed, the table, and motor. The trailer bed was about 4 or 5 feet wide. I laid the saw on its back, and strapped it down well, placing the table, and motor in my truck. The guy I purchased it from got a couple of neighbors to help load the saw into the trailer. I had about 50 miles to drive. No problem, but the trailer is real bumpy, just have to be careful.

When I arrived home, I did not have anyone to help me unload the saw. That is where the low trailer came in handy. I was able to pull the bottom of the saw out of the trailer until the base touched the ground. Then I lifted the top and stood it up. Once it was on its base, I just walked it little by little until I got it where I wanted it.

I am not sure exactly what type of truck you have, or how high it is. The low trailer I rented sure worked out well. With your saw, with the large base, I think I would transport it standing up. I would however, remove the table and motor. The small trailer that I rented had high sides, so it offered me plenty of places to tie it down.

Sam

[Sam Layton]

Jeff,

The hole you are talking about, does it look like someone drilled it, or did it come that way? I looked at mine, and there is no hole. There is a hole under where the table mounts. Do you have photo's?

My bottom wheel has a little wobble to it. I am going to see about having it milled true. I need new tires as well. I talked to Dan, at D & W's a while back, and he wanted, about $300.00 for new tires, and balancing. I was thinking of installing new tires myself. What do you think?

Dan says that the factory guide blocks are very good. You may want to rebuild the factory ones, and see if Dan has any necessary parts you may need.

When I purchased my saw, the table was rusted, and the miter bar was rusted in the slot. I used WD40, and let it soak for a while, and was able to remove the miter bar. I am going to use electrolysis to remove the rust. As long as the pitting is not real bad, I would not worry about it. I think JD Weld would fix your wheel cover where the blade bit into it.

My saw came with an old 1 1/2 hp motor. I would like to replace it as well.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Sam

[Jeff Carmi]

Hey Sam,

Thanks for the input. I'm going to use the flatbed tailer - pretty much what you described as your U-haul rental. This one's got a winch too, so that should help with unload/offload. Dan at D&W recommends I keep the saw upright, but didn't seem to think laying it down would be the worst option ever. I understand why removing the table makes some sense, but I've heard some say it's unnecessary and tedious. But unless that's really true I'll probably take it off anyway. I'll see about the motor. Like the table, I'm not convinced removing it is necessary. I don't have too many mechanic's tools, so I'm worried I won't get it off smoothly. Can you say wether this is simple to do or not? What's the process for tensioning the pulley or are there any tricks to removing it smoothly?

. . .

The hole is definitely not factory. I've done very little welding, but the edges almost look like it was cut with a torch. Here's a picture of it. It's a funny angle but you can see the lower tire, the table, and the positive stop for the table angle for reference to the hole's location. See how it faces the trunnion?

Dan quoted me the same for tires/installation as well. I've heard vulcanizing is just the way to go with any saw. It's expensive but will last if taken care of (maybe 20 years?). The saw was advertised as working, so I'm trying to negotiate the price to accomodate the tire/wheel expense (amongst a few many others).

I'm not really worried about the pitting. It is in a pretty inconspicuous spot anyway. What's this electrolysis about? I was just going to use elbow grease - maybe a drill mounted brush. . .

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Suppose it was somebodies attempt at dust collection? Seems to be in the wrong place though.

[fred klotz]

If you decide to haul it laying down, old vehicle tires (no rims) can be very helpful with and odd shape like a bandsaw. They fill in awkward spaces, act as shock absorbers for those inevitable bumps, keep tension on your load straps, and friction helps to keep things from moving. Looks pretty Okey, but I've used them for a variety of loads, and I live 5 miles off the pavement on a road most people won't travel.

[Dennis Ford]

Don't worry about the cost of tires too much. You can buy new tires from Carter Products and put them on yourself.

[Sam Layton]

Jeff,

I think you said that you only have 16 miles to transport the saw. You may not have to remove the table and motor. For me, I needed to remove the items so I could handle the saw by myself. If you do remove the table, it is heavy, so be careful. The removal is easy, just be careful of the weight of the table. I am not sure how your style of motor tensions. The motor on mine has 4 bolts holding it.

If they used a torch to cut that hole, make sure the cast iron is not cracked. I have heard that heat, as in welding, can crack cast iron. I think heat form a torch would be the same.

There is no doubt that vulcanizing is the best, just costly.

Electrolysis removes the rust. Use need a tub of water, Arm and Hammer washing soda, battery charger, and rebar for the set up. The electrical current from the battery charger transfers the rust from the tool to the rebar. Works very good. Goggle, electrolysis rust removal, for details. If your table is not bad, your elbow grease will work well.

Sam

[Jeff Carmi]

Steve - I agree. It would be a poor attempt at dust collection, but don't know why else the hole would be there.

Sam - Thanks for the tips. Electrolysis sounds cooL@

Fred - Tires are a good idea! Thanks.

Dennis - I'm considering the carter tires, but have heard vulcanizing gives better results and lasts longer. Plus, the wheels would be professionally balanced.

Thanks everyone!

[Jeff Carmi]

So the saw is here! It's been at least a year of research, looking, and longing, but it is here! And here are a bunch of photos (guess you guys would call this a gloat) :)

I wish I had time to get some old tires before moving this thing, as Fred suggested. I think they could be helpful as a resilient padding, especially if cut and sized appropriately. I also would have liked many a 2x4 and my cordless tools with me. Everything went just fine, but I would have been less concerned when loading and strapping with a quick, make-shift crate. It is easy for straps to run from where you want the to stay and it was difficult/impossible to keep them from putting pressure on parts I shouldn't (wheel cover, in my case). I brought a pallet but it needed reinforcement. A typical pallet will not necessarily support 1/2 ton.

After getting in the shop I took a few pictures but I couldn't resist removing some rust with a brass brush loaded to a cordless drill first. The saw will need some work, but I hope to have it running smoothly within a week.

Next step will be dust collection - I plan on a lot of re-sawing. My only collector is a CT26, so I'm thinking about getting the Oneida cyclone setup and rigging appropriate connections to the machine. Any suggestions?

Of course when I have the money, and the time, I'll do a complete rebuild and instal a 3+HP motor, maybe even 3 phase wit VFD converter?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Congrats Jeff!! It's a great feeling to get a new tool home!

You asked about dust collection. On a bandsaw, of course all the dust is pulled down by the blade. so you can do a pretty good job of dust collection by just having a suction hose by the lower guide assembly, or lower, under the bottom wheel. For using the Festool vac, getting a hose in there to direct the airflow precisely will be the key to getting it perfect. The torchcut hole may actually be useful. With a big cyclone, you can be more imprecise on placement of the pickup because of more airflow.

On my big Oliver, the shields are mesh wire, so I couldn't use them to help direct airflow easily. I ended up just hanging a 6" hose by the lower guide, which mostly works. The blade actually impedes airflow, I use a 1 1/2" carbide in it, so a baffle to direct air from both sides of the blade would be a good idea. I have not done it though, as anything that falls by is just course chips and easy to sweep up after a big resaw job. You can see a pic of my machine on my homepage here if you are curious.

Have fun with the new toy!

[Michael Koga]

They sure don't build them like that anymore. Good luck with the restore!

[Sam Layton]

Jeff,

Congratulations on your saw. Did the transport home work out OK? Let us know when you get it running,

Good job, Sam

[Steven Satur]

I have the exact same saw that I picked up a few years ago.
Do not put Carter tires on this. From what I was told the only way to go is with vulcanized tires. I was luckey that mine only needed truing up a little.
The one photo show what looks like the tire is falling off the wheel, or is it just me?If you need new tires the have D&W or Tools for Woodworking put them on. Setting this saw up took me about 4-5 hrs. but the end result was worth it.
I have a dust collection hooked up that I made up on mine that someone sent me some photos on theirs, I think theirs was from D&W.

Goodluck

Steve251122251123251124

[Jeff Carmi]

Thanks everyone for the replies!

Transport went well. There are a few details to comment on, like strapping techniques and crate making, that would've been helpful had I thought it through beforehand. Consider where the straps will go and anticipate where blocking will be needed to avoid tugging on anything but the frame. I was nervous about bending the wheel cover with the strap cranked down over the frame in the throat of the saw. Also didn't like how the straps pressed the steel cabinet. I think if anyone's really serious about moving a valuable saw they should crate it. I would have been really stressed if this was a new(er) saw not needing (much) work. Next time I'd bring my tools and some 2x4 and 4x4 lumber for crating/palletizing. Spax screws are great for quick, strong construction (no pre-drlling).

The flatbed truck works alright. A lift-gate would be easiest. Have it on a pallet is a big plus if you have a pallet jack. Finally, I'd say the best/most helpful thing is manpower. I came home to a few friends (three guys) who helped the two of us who did the loading and suddenly it was a piece of cake! Well, almost.

It's been a week and not much has transpired. I'm getting the funds together before I get going on this. I know I could have it useable in a few day's work, but I'm considering doing a full restoration right off the bat - thinking it'll be better in the long run. The problem is I don't have the time to commit to that now and would mean the saw sitting inoperable for a few months. Any suggestions for a first-timer as to which route I should go and why?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Jeff, I don't know what your saw may need in a full resto, but when I bought my big Oliver, I expected to do a full restore off the bat too. I even bought a bunch of stuff to do it, without knowing if they were necessary As luck would have it though, I moved and it got put on hold, then I needed to resaw, so I just fired it up. After using it for a bit, it was much more obvious what my machine actually needed beyond a Krylon overhaul. I ended up replacing the Carter aftermarket guides with monster Tannewitz models, that look nearly identical to what the saw was supposed to have, but have better bearings. The motor was also weak, which was not obvious, and the line belt conversion that someone did was geared wrong. The blade was going twice as fast as I wanted and I didn't like the power control either. I ended up replacing the motor, different ratio pulleys, the guides, built a magnetic starter, added a few shields, and a Laguna fence.

Most of the parts I bought for it before I used it are still in boxes in the woodshop. I was going to repaint it too, but turns out I get a kick out of seeing the honest wear on the old paint, which is really in pretty good shape. By just using it, I also got an appreciation for what that amazing machine will do. Those little Carter guides (the biggest Carter sells) looked adequate before I actually used it for example.

Anyway, that's my approach, use it if you want.

[Jeff Carmi]

Hello everyone!

So it's taken a few months to get back around to restoring this old boy. I still don't quite have the funds I'd like, but I think I'm going to go for it. I'm going to be moving at the end of this month and figure it's a good excuse to take the saw apart. I'm not sure if it's appropriate to start a new thread on the restoration, so let me know.

Here's what I'm thinking (and in the order that I'm thinking it):

- Wheels off. Send for volcanizing/balancing
- Take saw apart. Consider repainting. If so, sandblast (have never done this).
- Order all replacement parts. Definitely need new guide blocks and bearings.
- Repair hole below table (see pics above). Hopefully my metalworker buddy can do this for me.
- Possibly regrind/flatten table and repair pitting in mitre slot.
- Paint (have a spray gun, but never used it. My compressor is small but should suffice)
- Moving. Re-assemble saw at new garage.
- 3hp 3ph motor and VFD. Found one local (http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/3720724365.html) but unsure about matching frame types and shaft diameters. Also not sure if motor RPM is a concern if I'll be using a VFD.
- Driftmaster fence system
- Carbide blade(s)
- Make much dust!

PLEASE let me know what you guys think! This will be my first full restoration and I've got a commission to start building mid-May, so this has to happen quickly. Your thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated!

-Jeff

[loren forney]

She's a beauty! No advantage to a 3 phase motor outside of commercial ventures. Get a single phase motor unless you already have 3 phase service to your shop. 3 phase service is way spendy and without it you will need a converter to create 3 phase power from single phase power.

Congrats again on your new and lightweight (LOL) bandsaw.

Loren

[Jeff Carmi]

Thanks, Loren!

I'm under the impression that a VFD would act as a phase converter since it takes 1 or 3 phase IN and puts only 3 phase OUT. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I've seen quite a few do this. In any case, I really would like the VFD for it's slow-start and electronic braking, as well as the ability to adjust the speed for different woods/operations.

[Brad Walton]

I am new to this site. I am looking at a Davis & Wells band saw. Will the blade speeds on these saws run slow enough to cut metal, such as 300 FPM, as compared to wood cutting speeds of about 3,000 FPM? Thanks for any help, Brad

[Gus Dundon]

That's a great looking band saw.! That hole is a mystery. How old is it?