Questions for anyone who has installed a Grizzly 3hp cyclone

[Wade Lippman]

My G0441 will arrive Friday afternoon!
But I have a few questions:

1) Grizzly recommends a 40a circuit, but everyone seems to use a 30a circuit. My guess is that an occasional 30a breaker will trip on startup, so to avoid complaints Griz recommends a 40a circuit.
So, has anyone actually had problems with 30a circuit? I don't want to overdo it, but I also don't want to have to do it twice.
2) Grizzly says it is either 93" or 109" high depending on how you assemble the dust barrel. My ceiling is 105", so I obviously can't use the 109", but don't want a tiny barrel. Is there anything between the two, or am I stuck at 93".
3) I don't have a wall available and didn't want to spring for the steel frame. I intend on building a small 2x4 "wall", supported by braces. Does that seem reasonable? Any problems you see? Yes, it will be top heavy, but no more so than the steel stand. If someone has the steel frame, perhaps you could measure the footprint so I can be sure of at least equaling it.
4) I don't think I will be moving it, but as long as I am building something that could be moved, I figure I might as well put casters on it. As long as I use ones heavy enough for the weight, any problems having it on wheels?

Thanks.

[Cary Falk]

I have the G0441 and have it on a 30A circuit for about 9 months now without issue. I made my own stand out of 1.5x1.5x.125 steel tube with rollers. My ceiling is 112" I have about 4" clearance above the motor. There is about 9" between the bottom of the cyclone and the top of the bin that is connected by hose. You could gain another 3" if you remove the bin wheels. I assembled it and then my neighbor and I rocked it up. It took all we had to get it up and neither are what you would call wimps. HTH

[Wade Lippman]

I have the G0441 and have it on a 30A circuit for about 9 months now without issue. I made my own stand out of 1.5x1.5x.125 steel tube with rollers. My ceiling is 112" I have about 4" clearance above the motor. There is about 9" between the bottom of the cyclone and the top of the bin that is connected by hose. You could gain another 3" if you remove the bin wheels. I assembled it and then my neighbor and I rocked it up. It took all we had to get it up and neither are what you would call wimps. HTH

You completely assembled it on the ground and then put it up? Yeah, that seems tough. Could you have mounted the motor/blower on the ground, tipped it up, and then finished the assembly with it up? Not having seen the components, that looks easier than trying to lift the motor/blower up onto the screws.

So with 105", to do a full drum I would have to remove the wheels from the drum and reduce the hose by a few inches? That probably isn't worthwhile.
I appreciate the help.

[Cary Falk]

I don't remeber exactly( i try to block it out) but I think the reason was the blower and motor were connected somehow by the electrical and I would have had to unwire the motor or something like that. The motor and blower were too heavy for me to lift by myself so I thought it would be easier to assemble the cone, blower and motor on the stand and rock it up. I know the manual shows 2 people doing this but I had a plan in mind to work smarter not harder. That plan soon failed when I found out how heavy it actually was. I then had to call my neighbor. Even connecting the filter by yourself is a chore. It is big and awkard enough to make it heavy. You can't hold it steady with one hand while you try to bolt it on with the other. good luck

[richard poitras]

I have an Oneida Pro 2000 and I assembled it on the stand and then stood it up. There were 3 of us…

[Bas Pluim]

1. I have the Shop Fox W1809 variant of the G0441. The manual stated it needed a 30A circuit, and it's never tripped.
2. My ceiling is 104". I cut a hole in the ceiling, framed it in, added a little drywall, and presto: It fits. If you can do that, I strongly recommend it, since the bigger barrel is a major plus.
3. Can't help you with that one, since the Shop Fox frame is different
4. I would not put it on casters. It will further raise the cyclone, and once you have the ducting in place, you don't really want to move it.

If you want to see pictures of the install, wander over to ncwoodworker dot net, and search for "cyclone ratchet ceiling".

[Wade Lippman]

4. I would not put it on casters. It will further raise the cyclone, and once you have the ducting in place, you don't really want to move it.



That's a good point. I have never been able to have ducting, so I didn't even think of it.

[Jim Andrew]

I have a 2 hp woodsucker, that i installed by myself. That idea of cutting a hole for the motor is good. I would block off between the joists and just put a piece of SR over the top. I put the frame and sheetmetal part of the cyclone up in pieces, and then the last thing took the motor with impeller up the ladder and put it in place. These cyclones are amazingly loud, you will want a closet with walls around the thing just for the noise suppression. I used a rubber boot to connect the cyclone to the pipe to reduce the vibration so the pipe wouldn't make racket.

[Drew Watson]

I have the 2hp grizzly and mounted it to the wall. Assembled it there too. Actually quite easy if you follow the instructions. I wouldn't second guess the voltage or any of the power requirements. Just in case you wire it up in any other way than is specified you run the risk of invalidating your product warranty as well as possibly creating issues with the electrical panels which can in turn invalidate your home insurance if something goes wrong and something like a fire happens. Best to stick with the recommendations as set out by the instructions. They wouldn't state it for no reason. :rolleyes:

[David Kumm]

I would question the whole power thing again with tech support. the unit is marketed as a 3 hp motor with an amp draw of 22. either a 5 hp labeled wrong or the most inefficient motor in the history of the world. A DC starts hard but again a 40 amp circuit for what is labeled as 3 hp doesn't compute. It is erring on the safe side but when someone recommends something with that much room for safety I get nervous as to why. Dave

[Wade Lippman]

I would question the whole power thing again with tech support. the unit is marketed as a 3 hp motor with an amp draw of 22. either a 5 hp labeled wrong or the most inefficient motor in the history of the world. A DC starts hard but again a 40 amp circuit for what is labeled as 3 hp doesn't compute. It is erring on the safe side but when someone recommends something with that much room for safety I get nervous as to why. Dave

I know; I have never had a 3hp motor that wouldn't run on a 20a circuit.
I don't know this for a fact, but I think they use the same motor for both their 5hp and 3hp cyclones. The 5hp has has larger filters and a larger impeller, so it develops more HP than the 3hp setup. It seems that most people ignore their recommendation and uses a 30a circuit without problems. I suspect they got some complaints out of the thousands of units they sell about tripping 30a breakers, so they required a 40a just to avoid the complaints; now if it trips your 30a circuit then can point out they recommend a 40a.
I don't know any of this, but it is what makes sense. I am planning on testing it with a temporary circuit first just to settle the issue.
The interesting thing is that they say their 5hp DC uses a 17a motor! And this 5hp is 22a?

I wish someone would measure their current draw during startup and run; but no one has.

Drew... The 3hp is much heavier than the 2hp, so it might not be as easy. I am not second guessing the voltage, but simply whether it needs a 30 or 40a circuit. It can't damage either the cyclone or the panel box; it just might trip the breaker and require redoing it.

[Wade Lippman]

They give two mounting positions; 93" and 109", a difference of 16".
If you use the 93" position you make the drum 17" high, and if you use the 109" position you make the drum 27" high by adding a 10" piece.
There is 6" missing between the height of the cyclone and the size of the drum (16" vs 10"); the only place it can be is in the hose connecting the drum to the cyclone.
That implies it works better with long hose than a short hose, or they would have it 103" instead of 109".
I guess it is easier to remove the drum, or maybe it improves the separation.
Follow me?

I have 101" available; not enough to use the 10" drum piece, but I can make the hose longer. I called Grizzly to ask if I should do that.
He no one had ever mentioned this before, but I appeared to be correct. He could not recommend doing anything other than what is in the directions, but he couldn't see any harm to using a longer hose with the 17" drum.

I wonder if anyone has any comments on this. Does it make any sense to make the hose longer?

[David Kumm]

Wade, Michael knows more bout this than me but I believe longer is better than shorter to the drum. As soon as the drum fills to the cone dust starts going back through the filters. Dave

[Drew Watson]

Wade the 2hp is not a whole lot bigger or heavier than the 3hp it is not like we are talking about a horse here you know. Yes I do have 3 hp motors. The voltage will trip the breakers yes if there is a short or over load on the circuit but too large a breaker will not trip when it is suppose to and could possibly damage the motor in the process. that in turn could cause a fire and as my lovely wife ( the insurance agent) keeps reminding me can possibly invalidate the insurance policy. Just saying be careful and follow the recommendations. Bigger is not always better despite what Tim the tool man Taylor says. :)

[Rick Moyer]

They give two mounting positions; 93" and 109", a difference of 16".
If you use the 93" position you make the drum 17" high, and if you use the 109" position you make the drum 27" high by adding a 10" piece.
There is 6" missing between the height of the cyclone and the size of the drum (16" vs 10"); the only place it can be is in the hose connecting the drum to the cyclone.
That implies it works better with long hose than a short hose, or they would have it 103" instead of 109".
I guess it is easier to remove the drum, or maybe it improves the separation.
Follow me?

I have 101" available; not enough to use the 10" drum piece, but I can make the hose longer. I called Grizzly to ask if I should do that.
He no one had ever mentioned this before, but I appeared to be correct. He could not recommend doing anything other than what is in the directions, but he couldn't see any harm to using a longer hose with the 17" drum.

I wonder if anyone has any comments on this. Does it make any sense to make the hose longer?

I have the 0440 2HP and mounted it higher on the stand, so I have a longer pc of hose since the drum that comes with the 0440 is shorter than the one for the 0441. I really don't see what the big deal would be with the hose length either way.

[Wade Lippman]

Wade the 2hp is not a whole lot bigger or heavier than the 3hp it is not like we are talking about a horse here you know. Yes I do have 3 hp motors. The voltage will trip the breakers yes if there is a short or over load on the circuit but too large a breaker will not trip when it is suppose to and could possibly damage the motor in the process. that in turn could cause a fire and as my lovely wife ( the insurance agent) keeps reminding me can possibly invalidate the insurance policy. Just saying be careful and follow the recommendations. Bigger is not always better despite what Tim the tool man Taylor says. :)

You have just made a point for using a 30a breaker instead of the "recommended" 40a circuit!
Perhaps you mistakenly thought I wanted to use a 40a circuit when Grizzly recommends a 30a? No, the other way around.

[Wade Lippman]

I have the 0440 2HP and mounted it higher on the stand, so I have a longer pc of hose since the drum that comes with the 0440 is shorter than the one for the 0441. I really don't see what the big deal would be with the hose length either way.

Is there any benefit to that? Does the drum come out easier? Is the separation any better?
I can mount it higher, but won't if there is no benefit. It just seems to me that Griz could have made the high position 103" instead of 109". They lengthened the hose for for some reason, or so I would think.

[Carl Beckett]

You have just made a point for using a 30a breaker instead of the "recommended" 40a circuit!
Perhaps you mistakenly thought I wanted to use a 40a circuit when Grizzly recommends a 30a? No, the other way around.


It was my understanding that the breaker protects the wiring, not the machine, and it would b improper to expect the breaker to kick out mdue to motor overload. Tere should be an overload reset in the motor windings for this. So the size of the circuit makes no difference.

Wuld definitely like to hear others views on this

(dang auto spell......)

[Wade Lippman]

It was my understanding that the breaker protects the wiring, not the machine, and it would b improper to expect the breaker to kick out mdue to motor overload. Tere should be an overload reset in the motor windings for this. So the size of the circuit makes no difference.

Wuld definitely like to hear others views on this

(dang auto spell......)

Motors should either have a thermal overload on the motor or an amp overload in the starter.

I think he was referring to a small short in the machine that might overload wiring in the cyclone but not trip a 40a breaker; but would have tripped a 30a circuit. Rather unlikely, but not altogether impossible. I suppose the overheated wire could somehow ignite some sawdust that would get carried to the dustbin; which could somehow catch your house on fire. A few years ago someone's car got hit by a meteor; so I guess anything is possible.

It is not clear why anyone would put a 40a circuit in when only a 30a circuit was required, though maybe it would be so the circuit could support 2 machines. But you can't put a 30a outlet on a 40a circuit, or put a 50a plug on a line only rated for 30a so it wouldn't come up much.

[Carl Beckett]

I think it comes up all the time Wade. Should you wire all 20A, all 30A, or a mix and match and have a different circuit to each machine? (which then has to be changed if you ever upgrade equipment)

Same for the 115 routing. 15A or 20 A? I'm wiring 20A on most 115. Sockets even though most of the time only a fraction of this capacity would be used.

I'm not an electician. Just in the middle of a shop wiring upgrade so this question came up. (if a particular machine wants a smaller breaker, I can always put a smaller breaker on larger capacity wiring and plugs. but it was my understanding that the breaker protects the wiring.....

[Wade Lippman]

I think it comes up all the time Wade. Should you wire all 20A, all 30A, or a mix and match and have a different circuit to each machine? (which then has to be changed if you ever upgrade equipment)

Same for the 115 routing. 15A or 20 A? I'm wiring 20A on most 115. Sockets even though most of the time only a fraction of this capacity would be used.

I'm not an electician. Just in the middle of a shop wiring upgrade so this question came up. (if a particular machine wants a smaller breaker, I can always put a smaller breaker on larger capacity wiring and plugs. but it was my understanding that the breaker protects the wiring.....

Code allows you to put 15a outlets on 120v 20a circuits. You can put 15a plugs on #18 wire and code is happy.
That is not true for bigger stuff. You can't put a 30a outlet on a 240v 40a circuit. Since there is no such thing as a 40a outlet you have to use 50a outlets; which is okay because they both use #8.

It is often said that the breaker is to protect the wiring, but is only sort of true. It would be imprudent (I don't know if it is illegal, but it is certainly imprudent) to put a 50a plug on your 1hp drill press with a #16 cord and plug it into a 50a outlet. A short could put 50a through the cord, burn it up, and the breaker won't care. But the same could be said about the cord on your clock in a 20a outlet.

You mentioned putting in a large circuit in case you upgrade your equipment. You can always put a 20a breaker on #8. Then if you ever have to upgrade, you just change the breakers and the outlets.

It is complicated and I probably don't know half of it.

[Larry Prem]

I have the G0441 installed in my shop. It's a great machine. You'll be very happy with it.

2) I'd go for the smaller drum, if you really can't extend your ceiling height. Maybe you can get the extra 4 inches by cutting a hole for the motor.
3) I would not attempt to build a wall. The grizzly is very heavy and puts a lot of force on the mounting points, if it is not supported in all four corners. You will be happier in the long run, if you either find wallspace, or buy the frame.

[John Lanciani]

Code allows you to put 15a outlets on 120v 20a circuits..

Code allows 15 amp duplex receptacles to be installed on a circuit protected with a 20 amp breaker. If you install a single simplex receptacle on a 20 amp circuit it would have to be a 20 amp receptacle.

It is neither illegal nor imprudent to put a plug on a device to match the available outlet. The role of the breaker to protect ends at the outlet. Your alarm clock is a perfect example of this, it probably draws +/- 100mA yet it is protected by a 15 or 20 amp breaker.

[Rick Moyer]

Is there any benefit to that? Does the drum come out easier? Is the separation any better?
I can mount it higher, but won't if there is no benefit. It just seems to me that Griz could have made the high position 103" instead of 109". They lengthened the hose for for some reason, or so I would think.
The reason I raised mine to the higher level is because I wanted the inlet to be up near the ceiling for my piping runs. I suppose the longer pc of hose may allow more wiggle room for drum to come out but not really much of an advantage. Actually I have thought about getting the drum extension, as I have room for it now with the cyclone raised, but it's too pricey IMO.

[Wade Lippman]

The reason I raised mine to the higher level is because I wanted the inlet to be up near the ceiling for my piping runs. I suppose the longer pc of hose may allow more wiggle room for drum to come out but not really much of an advantage. Actually I have thought about getting the drum extension, as I have room for it now with the cyclone raised, but it's too pricey IMO.

Central PA isn't too far away; want to buy mine? Sort of kidding since shipping would be a killer, but if we could work something out...
Unless I remove the casters I simply can't use it with 101", and the casters are probably more important.

I appreciate your input on the height.

[Wade Lippman]

I have built a wall on the floor, mounted the motor on it, and tried to raise it up. My son, wife, and I can do it, but just barely. But barely is good enough.

But I had an idea. The motor mount would not go over the lag bolts on the top row if I had them high enough to get the washers on. Maybe my bolt heads are extra thick, I don't know, but I had to remove the top row, mount it on the bottom row, and then install the top row of lag bolts. Fortunately there is access.

It occurred to me that as long as I can do that, I might as well use bolts instead of lag bolts on the two outside ones. A few dollars extra, but a whole lot more secure. Am I overdoing this, or is it a reasonable thing to do?

And, those of you who mounted it on an existing wall; how the heck did you get it on the bolts? No way mine was going to fit.

[Michael W. Clark]

Wade, Michael knows more bout this than me but I believe longer is better than shorter to the drum. As soon as the drum fills to the cone dust starts going back through the filters. Dave

This is correct. The longer hose will help with separation as the drum gets full. Generally, you want the bin full level to be several cone outlet diameters away. As the level gets higher, it is more likely for re-entrainment and carryover to the filters.
Mike

[Wade Lippman]

The reason I raised mine to the higher level is because I wanted the inlet to be up near the ceiling for my piping runs. I suppose the longer pc of hose may allow more wiggle room for drum to come out but not really much of an advantage. Actually I have thought about getting the drum extension, as I have room for it now with the cyclone raised, but it's too pricey IMO.

I am done with mine but found I couldn't get the drum out; not enough room to raise the lid.
I stuck a couple 2x4s under it, raising it 3" and it seems fine now.
My only problem now is that the cone that is suppose to hold the top of the plastic bag down just falls to the bottom. What am I doing wrong?

[Rick Moyer]

Wade, if you are asking me, I'm not sure what cone and bag you are talking about?

[Wade Lippman]

Wade, if you are asking me, I'm not sure what cone and bag you are talking about?

I am not sure why I quoted you in the last post; sorry.
But anyhow, they provide a poly bag to go in the dust can and a conical ring to hold it in place. My ring falls to the bottom, which isn't what they show.
If yours has that, how is it used?

[John Spitters]

Hmmm
I purchased my Grizzly 441 apx 4 yrs ago. at that time the specs said to install it on a 30 amp breaker, I can tell you that in apx every 8-10 starts I will trip the breaker on startup. I've often wondered if I should up the breaker to a 40amp to get over this anoying problem. I have 10g wire from the panel to the cyclone. My ceiling hieght is also at apx.101 - 102" I went with using the lower half of the drum only, yes it's a bit of a pain as it will fill up quickly when planing lots of stock but then again it's also easier to empty the smaller 35G drum than it would be if the extension was added. Having had to live with the smaller drum for 4yrs I believe that I much prefer it over a larger one.

John

[Rick Moyer]

I am not sure why I quoted you in the last post; sorry.
But anyhow, they provide a poly bag to go in the dust can and a conical ring to hold it in place. My ring falls to the bottom, which isn't what they show.
If yours has that, how is it used?
Sorry, don't know. don't have that.

[Matt Meiser]

They must have changed the bag hold down system. Mine was extra-cost and is a big metal sleeve that goes inside the bag. Can you post pictures?

[Wade Lippman]

Hmmm
I purchased my Grizzly 441 apx 4 yrs ago. at that time the specs said to install it on a 30 amp breaker, I can tell you that in apx every 8-10 starts I will trip the breaker on startup. I've often wondered if I should up the breaker to a 40amp to get over this anoying problem. I have 10g wire from the panel to the cyclone. My ceiling hieght is also at apx.101 - 102" I went with using the lower half of the drum only, yes it's a bit of a pain as it will fill up quickly when planing lots of stock but then again it's also easier to empty the smaller 35G drum than it would be if the extension was added. Having had to live with the smaller drum for 4yrs I believe that I much prefer it over a larger one.

John

Do you have it hardwired or plug/outlet? I am told that if it is hardwired you can use a 40a breaker on it and meet code; plug requires a 30a breaker.
I started it 6 times on a 30a breaker and measured the startup draw as 140a each time, for less than a second.
Square D says their 30a breaker will handle 150a for at least 4 seconds.
So a 30a ought to be adequate, but I am still dithering.

I would like to have a 55 gallon drum, but my last one had that and I was a real pain to empty. So I am trying to convince myself that a smaller drum is better.:)

[Wade Lippman]

They must have changed the bag hold down system. Mine was extra-cost and is a big metal sleeve that goes inside the bag. Can you post pictures?

251584

The plastic bag is supposed to go in the center of the conical ring, and folded down between the ring and the drum. At least that is what is shown in the manual. But the low friction between the bag and the ring lets the ring fall to the bottom. I don't understand how it is supposed to work.

The hose on the bottom is connected to the cyclone; if the pressure below the bag is the same as the pressure above, it won't get sucked up. At least that's the theory.

[Matt Meiser]

Ah, they finally came out with the bag gripper system! I believe that ring goes down in the bottom of the drum and stays put. It keeps the bag away from the hose connection at the bottom.

[Wade Lippman]

Ah, they finally came out with the bag gripper system! I believe that ring goes down in the bottom of the drum and stays put. It keeps the bag away from the hose connection at the bottom.

Okay, it all makes sense now. Thanks.
Their photo shows it at the top. I wondered what all the holes were for; they distribute the vacuum.

[Wade Lippman]

My G0441 will arrive Friday afternoon!
But I have a few questions:

1) Grizzly recommends a 40a circuit, but everyone seems to use a 30a circuit. My guess is that an occasional 30a breaker will trip on startup, so to avoid complaints Griz recommends a 40a circuit.
So, has anyone actually had problems with 30a circuit? I don't want to overdo it, but I also don't want to have to do it twice.
2) Grizzly says it is either 93" or 109" high depending on how you assemble the dust barrel. My ceiling is 105", so I obviously can't use the 109", but don't want a tiny barrel. Is there anything between the two, or am I stuck at 93".
3) I don't have a wall available and didn't want to spring for the steel frame. I intend on building a small 2x4 "wall", supported by braces. Does that seem reasonable? Any problems you see? Yes, it will be top heavy, but no more so than the steel stand. If someone has the steel frame, perhaps you could measure the footprint so I can be sure of at least equaling it.
4) I don't think I will be moving it, but as long as I am building something that could be moved, I figure I might as well put casters on it. As long as I use ones heavy enough for the weight, any problems having it on wheels?

Thanks.

Pretty much done now...
1) I tested it and found the startup current was considerably below what should trip a 30a breaker. Tested it a few times and it started fine.
2) I made it 93" and found I had trouble getting the lid high enough to get the drum out. I shimmed it up 3" and it is fine now. (no one else has trouble at 93?)
3) The wood frame cost about $50 and seems fine. The instructions say to assemble the whole unit in the steel frame and then tip it up! I had enough trouble tipping up the wood frame with just the blower motor.
4) You talked me out of casters. In retrospect I don't see why I wanted casters.

I appreciate everyone's help.