waterstone questions… please

[Charlie Ross]

Wow, the more I read about taking care of waterstones the more complicated it gets. I just received my stones from Stu last week “Sigma Power ceramic 1000-6000-13000 special set”; and I already had a King set of water stones (800-1200-6000 grit) that I purchased around 1985, but didn’t use much. Would the King stones be natural stones purchased back then, or how can I tell?
This question has been asked so much on this site and the web I hate to ask again, anyway here goes… I’m still not sure about soaking all the different grades of stones? Right now I have all 6 stones in a 5 gallon bucket full of water. Some people say they keep all stones soaking continuously, some say not to keep the finer stones soaking, and some say it doesn’t matter??? Personally, I like to keep the stones in water so that when I need to use them their soaked and ready to go when I need them. I think the most important questions are: can I hurt any of the stones by keeping them in water all the time, and will it hurt their performance by keeping them soaked?? Thanks!

[David Weaver]

You can soak all of those. I personally wouldn't soak the king 6k, and you may determine that you don't need to soak the 6k and 13k sigma, but it won't hurt them to soak them. I like to soak the 13k sigma, it has a nicer feel when soaked.

If you haven't hurt the 6k king yet, you have your answer (basically if it can dry and be back to like it was before it was soaked).

[Stuart Tierney]

Soaked or not is ok, but change the water regularly to keep growing stuff away.

We're having a small problem with bleach, water and the stones, and trying to work out what's going on. So change the water if you must keep stuff from growing in it.

(The bleach/water ratio that's causing the problem is quite high, but until we get to the bottom of it, I'd avoid any bleach in the water if possible.)

Just an FYI, I've used them soaked, splashed and dry and tend to favour splashed or a short soak before use. Drying them is not a problem however, and to be honest it's the method I use and highly recommend simply because no gunk will grow if the stones are dry.

(Dry them anywhere you want. Heat isn't a problem.)

Stu.

[Rob Dickson]

Hey Stu,

Just for some clarification, what kind of time frame do you mean when you say "short soak"?

[george wilson]

I refuse to have to deal with soaking stones and keeping changing the water all the time. Diamond and ceramic stones do not require such annoying and messy maintenance.

Be careful pouring the water down your drain. Stone slurry will settle in the bottom of your traps and really clog up your sink. Draino won't help,either. The gunk is insoluable.

Even the whiskers from my electric razor clogged my bathroom drain very badly. I got some of the GOOD stuff(powerful acid used by pros. They don't sell it to everyone) at the hardware store. It made short work of the whisker clog,AFTER I wasted my money on a snake. You will not get by so easily with stone slurry,though.

[Stuart Tierney]

Hey Stu,

Just for some clarification, what kind of time frame do you mean when you say "short soak"?

1-2 minutes.

Stu.

[Stanley Covington]

Stuff growing in the waterstone bucket is a problem, especially mosquitoes. Stinky and dangerous. First step is to keep the bucket covered with a plastic shopping bag. Flimsy is fine.

Second step is to add a chemical. Chlorine is not good for either stone or bucket, and the chlorine in the water will permeate the stone and will then end up in the pores of your blades causing rust in unseen places. Bad idea. Try a few drops of this http://www.simplegreen.com/products_pro_3.php. Works perfectly. Crud and bugs will shun your bucket. Be careful to keep your dogs and cats and toddlers away.

BTW, did you know that more children under three years old are killed by drowning in 5 gallon buckets of water than lasagna in the US? Strange but true. So if you have small ones, don't use 5 gallon buckets unless the lid is firmly in place all the time. Too deep, too stable.

Stone slurry is a real problem in the drain. Be prepared to clean the trap occasionally if you use a sink. While it sounds strange, there are ways to minimize the amount of stone slurry. In fact, I never use a sink.

Stan

[Charlie Ross]

I see a 5 gallon bucket ban coming!! The staggering preponderance of murder weapons in the USA are baseball bats.

People don't kill People... Buckets do!!!
Lots of good advice Thanks!!!
Tell me if I’m wrong… I take what everybody is saying is that it will not hurt any stones (my type of stones anyway) if they are kept in water 24-7, but some stones (the finer grit/denser) may work better if they are not continuously soaked, and soaked several minutes before use?

[Charlie Stanford]

Soaked or not is ok, but change the water regularly to keep growing stuff away.

We're having a small problem with bleach, water and the stones, and trying to work out what's going on. So change the water if you must keep stuff from growing in it.

(The bleach/water ratio that's causing the problem is quite high, but until we get to the bottom of it, I'd avoid any bleach in the water if possible.)

Just an FYI, I've used them soaked, splashed and dry and tend to favour splashed or a short soak before use. Drying them is not a problem however, and to be honest it's the method I use and highly recommend simply because no gunk will grow if the stones are dry.

(Dry them anywhere you want. Heat isn't a problem.)

Stu.

I'd be interested to see what a set up looks like in a real, working professional Japanese shop (not a western shrine thereto) - water baths, buckets, etc. Anybody have photos?

[george wilson]

How to eliminate stone slurry: dump it in the yard. Neither should you put cat litter down the drain!!:)

[Jack Curtis]

Children and buckets of water

That would be my guess, Stan, since 3 year olds don't attend schools or summer camps or movies where these gun toting psychopaths go to find the easiest prey. Of course, we'd know much more about guns and society if the NRA hadn't cut off NIH research years ago. Wimps.

Real Japanese shop

Charlie, this is fairly easy, just watch some videos; but Stu's shop is real and it's in Japan, so look at his videos.

[Charlie Ross]

How to eliminate stone slurry: dump it in the yard. Neither should you put cat litter down the drain!!:)

Or gas, dirt, sawdust, concrete…:rolleyes:

[Jason Coen]

Nothing to see here... :)

[David Weaver]

Moderator cleanup needed in aisle (post) #12. (it would be nice to not get threads locked for no good reason).

[Dan Alt]

[Deleted by author]

[Charlie Stanford]

Children and buckets of water

That would be my guess, Stan, since 3 year olds don't attend schools or summer camps or movies where these gun toting psychopaths go to find the easiest prey. Of course, we'd know much more about guns and society if the NRA hadn't cut off NIH research years ago. Wimps.

Real Japanese shop

Charlie, this is fairly easy, just watch some videos; but Stu's shop is real and it's in Japan, so look at his videos.

Nope, not looking for something like Stu's shop. I'd like to see what it all looks like in a shop with at least five to ten guys - doesn't matter if it's a joinery shop or a furniture shop (forgive the western terms), just want to get a glimpse into a busy shop.

If you have a handy link to videos I'd be most appreciative.

[Gary Hodgin]

How to eliminate stone slurry: dump it in the yard. Neither should you put cat litter down the drain!!:)

Just make sure you avoid your wife's flowers and plants. I stupidly dumped a bunch of slurry into a pea gravel bed with monkey grass in it. The monkey had yellow (gold) and white slurry from Norton's 4000 and 8000 on it. I acted innocent at first but later confessed to the deed.

[george wilson]

Dan,I don't know how to cut and paste the chart showing that which was put up on another forum. But,it would be best not to spread a debate about this here. I should not have mentioned it. I don't now where people dig up these charts. The real cause of murders is people and their intent,not what they do it with.

[Dan Alt]

Dan, It’s simple, don’t give your opinion… I’m asking about stones, not your opinion on guns. Thankyou!!

[Deleted by author]

[george wilson]

SORRY I mentioned it!! Let's stop this right now,or it will lead to trouble with the moderators.

[David Weaver]

Charlie - had a chance to play with the new stones much? What do you think of them?

[David Weaver]

You guys could all delete your threads on anything past baseball bats instead of waiting for a moderator to make a decision. At least it would preserve the thread.

We have, in my opinion, the best moderator on this board topic, but that doesn't mean that Dave is always going to be the one on duty deciding.

[Charlie Ross]

Charlie - had a chance to play with the new stones much? What do you think of them?

I sharpened one iron, Not much to form much of a opinion on yet… It did a nice job. I just purchased some planes also, so I’m on a bit of a learning curve in my shop. I’ve mostly used power tools up till now, but think I’m really going to like what hand tools add to my woodworking.

[Rob Matarazzo]

I'm by no means an expert on this, but I've had a Japanese 1000/6000 waterstone soaking continuously for about 20 years with no apparent problems. I keep it in a Tupperware type container.

[Harold Burrell]

I'm by no means an expert on this, but I've had a Japanese 1000/6000 waterstone soaking continuously for about 20 years...

Wow! That's only as often as you have to sharpen???

Cool...

;)

[Rob Matarazzo]

Well of course I remove it from the water when I have to use it!

[Jim Koepke]

Dan,I don't know how to cut and paste the chart showing that which was put up on another forum. But,it would be best not to spread a debate about this here. I should not have mentioned it. I don't now where people dig up these charts. The real cause of murders is people and their intent,not what they do it with.

George,

It is my recollection that you use a Macintosh. If you press and hold the shift, command and the 4 keys a cross hair should appear on your screen. Set this at one corner of the image area you want to capture, then click and hold. Move the cross hair to the opposite corner of the image and release. An image file should then appear on your desktop.

If this doesn't happen, you may have the keyboard shortcuts turned off. To toggle keyboard shortcuts between on and off press the control and F1 key.

To learn more about these options check out the Keyboard & Mouse set up in the System Preferences:

250678

jtk

[george wilson]

Thank you,Jim.

[Jim Koepke]

Your very welcome.

jtk

[Stanley Covington]

Children and buckets of water That would be my guess,

I am not joking about 5 gal buckets, and I did not bring the subject up to provoke anyone. The best bucket for stones is a 5 gal taping mud or paint bucket with a snap on lid. Like the orange ones sold at home despot, but the commercial ones used in construction materials are much tougher. Problem with them is that they are just the right height for a small child to lean over the lip, imitating a dog drinking water, whereupon, since the child has a relatively heavy head, he loses his balance and falls headfirst into the bucket. And he can't get the leverage to get out. And no one can hear him scream. If there is water in the bottom, he drowns. If empty, well the final result is similar if the time is longer.

Serious stuff guys. Don't keep 5 gallon buckets where small children can get at them. No sharpening regimen is worth it.

Stan

[Jacob Reverb]

Or gas, dirt, sawdust, concrete…


Or topsoil, pea gravel, concentrated HF acid, molten lead, metallic sodium, crude oil, swarf, toothpicks, fish hooks, broken safety glass, uncured epoxy...

[Jack Curtis]

I am not joking about 5 gal buckets, and I did not bring the subject up to provoke anyone. ...

Neither was I.

[Jason Coen]

Neither was I.

Probably the NRA's fault. :rolleyes:

[Jack Curtis]

Probably the NRA's fault. :rolleyes:

Well, it is Congress (House specifically) who appropriate funds to the NIH (and everything else, of course); so if Congress is cowed by the NRA....