Foot powered mortiser chisels

[Cody Cantrell]

I have a lead on a Seneca Falls Diamond foot powered mortiser. The machine is in good shape but it is missing the chisels. My question is how difficult are these to find and typically what do they cost if you do find them? I have done a few internet searchs but nothing more. I would like to get some idea before I pull the trigger on it. Thanks.

Cody

P.S.
Any information would be appreciated, as I know very little about the setup and use of the machine.

[ALEX MCCLAIN]

i have one made by lf parks, and have yet to see a mortice chisel for it your best bet will be to make chisels for it.

[ALEX MCCLAIN]

ill see if i can snap some pics of the chisel

[Cody Cantrell]

That sounds awesome, I considered home brew chisels. I would love to see pics.

[David Posey]

Josh Clark has some good pictures and info about one of these on his site. He might be one of a handful of people that could connect you with some vintage chisels. I find it hard to imagine that a set of these these could get separated from their original machine and then get listed by someone who wasn't deeply into old tools.

http://hyperkitten.com/blog/?p=272

[Ryan Baker]

Roy uses a mortiser like that in "The Shaker Bend" episode, available on the web site.

[Jack Curtis]

I found a Barnes and, amazingly enough, an auction of a pile of the chisels on ebay, which I snapped up. So, sure, have some made, but you may want to keep an eye out. As I recall, there were several Seneca Falls chisels in this pile which I plan to test to see if they'll also work in my Barnes, but if not, I'll let you know.

[Jason Coen]

Roy uses a mortiser like that in "The Shaker Bend" episode, available on the web site.

It's a sweet machine. Quite a leg workout if you're doing a bunch of doors in batches. After using his, I REALLY REALLY REALLY want one for my shop.

[george wilson]

I'm reasonably sure you'd have to drill out mortises first with such machines,as their chisels don't carry away the saw dust. The main benefit,then,I SUPPOSE,is to help you get straight 90º mortises. Haven't actually used one,but I can see these limitations coming. Easier to develop a little skill in vertical chiseling as far as I am concerned. I use my vertical mill to quickly mill slots. Then,I square up the corners with a chisel. It's quite fast,and saves my old joints from the extra wear(missing lots of cartilage). I used to cut them all by hand pretty quickly when younger.

When I made plane escapements with a slotting attachment,I had to drill away all possible wood with Forstner type bits(real Forstner bits aren't sold as far as I can see,any more). I kept a vacuum hose right there,and a steel pick. Frequently stopping the slotter and scraping away the shavings. BUT,these were pretty wide mortises,easily got at with the pick and vacuum. I made the chisels,and they would be pretty much the same as old fashioned mortising machines.

Real Forstner bits don't have the center peak that all of them seem to have now.

[Jason Coen]

I'm reasonably sure you'd have to drill out mortises first with such machines

Nope, it works just like using an old mortise chisel (I hate the term pigsticker).

[george wilson]

I made my mortise without drilling years ago,but,can you easily get the shavings out,or is the machine or chisel in the way? Hand chisel easily taken away. Years ago I saw Roy use his,but it's been a long time,and was on TV.

I HOPE they didn't used to kill pigs with mortise chisels!!:) Maybe they did. Pigs are hard to kill. My step father,back in the 20's,had to kill a pig on a farm. He gave the pig food,and shot him right in the brain while he was eating. Used a .22. The pig just kept on eating!!

[Cody Cantrell]

Thanks for all the comments guys. I have seen Josh Clarks blog and it is pretty informative with good pictures. I have not seen Roys episode yet but I watched a video of one being used and the the guy drilled a hole in the center of the mortise and worked out from there. It went way faster than I can with my mortise chisels. Fromwhat I can see in different picks the end of the chisel that goes in the machine is tapered like a morse taper. The spindle on the machine does not have through hole or a slot for a drift pin so I am not sure how to remove the chisels any one have an idea?

Jack let me know if the Seneca Falls dont fit, I may be interested.

[george wilson]

Speed does depend upon skill,obviously. I knew an old guy in 1963 who had had to carve a spiral piano leg in 20 minutes BY HAND or starve. Our genuine English coopers in Williamsburg(used to work in a shack with no windows and a candle at Whitbreads(sp?) brewery in England),had to hand make 2 beer barrels a day to survive. They had to be in peak physical condition to do that.

Believe it or not,I could dovetail the corner of a drawer(male and female) in 10 minutes in 1970. 2 dovetails per corner in my tool chest.(And don't accuse me of chest beating. It's a fact.) I did it in front of the director just a few weeks after I was hired,admittedly,to begin to prove myself. I was 29.

[Zach Dillinger]

Good stuff George. I'm 29 now and dovetailed my spice chest drawers in about 20 minutes for each drawer. 29 must be the best year for cutting dovetails.

[Jason Coen]

I made my mortise without drilling years ago,but,can you easily get the shavings out,or is the machine or chisel in the way? Hand chisel easily taken away. Years ago I saw Roy use his,but it's been a long time,and was on TV.

I HOPE they didn't used to kill pigs with mortise chisels!!:) Maybe they did. Pigs are hard to kill. My step father,back in the 20's,had to kill a pig on a farm. He gave the pig food,and shot him right in the brain while he was eating. Used a .22. The pig just kept on eating!!

I honestly don't remember how well the chips cleared. I just remember thinking I wanted one, so I guess it did fine?

Whenever it starts to get cold, my dad always says "it's hog killin' weather". My FIL in Montana is a butcher and used to use a .22 on cattle. He's got a broken jaw to show for that.

[george wilson]

And,Zach,as far as I can tell,you did a great job!!

Jason,we lived on a lighthouse with an abandoned sheep farm next door. All these filthy sheep with HUGELY long wool were roaming around there. My step father used to shoot one in the head with a .22 short(they were EASY to kill!)I don't think he ever would pay the extra for a .22 long rifle in his whole life. Now shorts cost MORE! He'd hang them up in the basement to dress them. The stench was awful to a small child like me.(probably still is!!) I got SO tired of eating mutton,I never touch it.

Hog killing weather. I guess it means it's cool enough to make a big fire and kettle to scald them? I was at the doctor's. He obviously had told this old guy to not eat any pork. the old guy was saying"I didn't eat any port,but I killed a hog and breathed some of the steam!!!!"

[Ryan Baker]

Roy did drill a hole at one end of the mortise to start with. He worked off from that point on the mortiser just like one would with a chisel. The chips were no problem.

[george wilson]

Chip problem or lack thereof could be related to the kind of wood being mortised on the machine. This is a guess on my part,but I'd think a soft pine would be less of a problem than a hard wood. Easier to compress the chips.

[Jack Curtis]

Cleaning up a mortise is more like the hand cutting process, except the speed of the foot powered machines tends to eject more of the waste for you.

[Trevor Walsh]

I would love to have one of these machines.

[harry strasil]

I was lucky enough to get a Barnes Series 3 foot morticer in almost new condition, but it only had 2 chisels with it, a 3/8" and a 1/2", I tried everywhere to find a 1/4" for it, but they are non existant. The shanks on the chisels are tapered to hold in the machine.

So I made a tapered sleeve similar to a router collet with a 3/8" hole in it and machined a 1/4" chisel from a piece of oil well sucker rod and hardened and tempered it. Works like a charm. The chisels are a bit larger at the bottom end of the taper and not knowing what kind of tool it took to remove them, I forged a tapered wedge with a handled somewhat similar to an old fashioned tierod removing tool to remove my chisels, I have never seen any thing that shows what is used to remove them, but my tapered removal tool works for me. FWIW

Pictures here, http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?113916-Mortise-Chisel-Gloat&highlight=foot+morticer+chisel

[Cody Cantrell]

I wondered about removal also Harry, I was thinking something looking like a pickle fork. I like your home brewed chisel, did you end up putting the "slot" in the front of the chisel like the originals or are they really nescassary?

[harry strasil]

Don't know if the slot is necessary, Cody. I didn't put a slot in mine.