Dado Plane

[David Dalzell]

:confused: I got the Veritas small plough (plow?) plane for Xmas. Though I haven't yet used it for a real project I have set it up, made a fence, sharpened the blades, and played with it to make grooves in a variety of woods. I love it. Now (since I am already way, way, way down the slippery slope) I am thinking dado plane. The only ones I know about are the Stanley 39s, HNT Gordon dado planes (wood), and the Brass City HP 6V2 (22nd century design and very complex). The latter two, HNT Gordon and Brass City, are very expensive; and I am not sure of the utility of the Stanley 39s. Patrick Heath's website does not speak well of the Stanley 39s. He states that they are difficult/painfull to use on hardwoods.
Does anyone know of other sources for dado planes?

[Bill Houghton]

Sargent made dado planes that have a little finger grip at the front. They're not as common as the Stanleys, but Sargent doesn't carry the collector magic of Stanleys, either.

I mention this only because I'm not presently trolling eBay for dado planes...if I were, I'd have kept my mouth shut...

[Derek Cohen]

The Veritas Small Plow Plane is very versatile, but not intended as a dado plane. It lacks nickers to plough across the grain without tearout. This can be overcome by first knifing the outer lines of the dado.


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20Veritas%20Small%20Plow%20Plane_html_654cbb30 .jpg


There is information in the review I wrote. Still, I would not recommend the small plow for this task (I was just exploring the possibilities at the time).


LINK: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20Veritas%20Small%20Plow%20Plane.html


The HNT Gordon Dado Plane is superb and does everything one could wish for in such a plane. There is a review here:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/HNTGordonDadoPlane.html


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/HNTGordonDadoPlane_html_m2de9276.jpg


Regards from Ottawa


Derek

[Zach Dillinger]

Patrick Leach knows his stuff. I prefer to saw my dadoes using a clamped down board as a fence, then zip out the waste with a chisel. If necessary, I'll clean the bottom with a hags tooth router, but I can usually get it close enough with a long paring chisel. After all, its just the bottom of an unseen groove.

This is mostly due to my almost total aversion to new tools, and the scarcity of good, useable dado planes in the wild. Every one I find is warped., so I just learned to do without.

[Charlie Stanford]

:confused: I got the Veritas small plough (plow?) plane for Xmas. Though I haven't yet used it for a real project I have set it up, made a fence, sharpened the blades, and played with it to make grooves in a variety of woods. I love it. Now (since I am already way, way, way down the slippery slope) I am thinking dado plane. The only ones I know about are the Stanley 39s, HNT Gordon dado planes (wood), and the Brass City HP 6V2 (22nd century design and very complex). The latter two, HNT Gordon and Brass City, are very expensive; and I am not sure of the utility of the Stanley 39s. Patrick Heath's website does not speak well of the Stanley 39s. He states that they are difficult/painfull to use on hardwoods.
Does anyone know of other sources for dado planes?

Record 050Cs have the best nickers in the business (little knives that take a pretty nice edge) and can be used as a dado plane but not quite as elegantly as a purpose-made one.

As Zach points out, the most important part of the dado is the wall - it needs to be vertical and it needs to be snug. The bottom doesn't matter a whole lot since you can't glue endgrain and of course the shelf end is, you guessed it, all endgrain.

[Chris Griggs]

I do it pretty similarly to Zach (except for the new tools thing, I LOVE new tools). I also typically cut a trench at my knife line with a chisel instead of using a fence (though I'd probably do well to use a fence like Zach does). Sometimes with shallower dados, I'll actually skip the chisel and just hog out all the waste with the router plane. This isn't how its typically recommended to do it, but I find I can take a pretty big bite going crossing with my router plane and if the plane is out and setup its sometime just quicker and easier for me to do it that way. For me i just depends what's that most convenient at the time and the size/depth of the particular dado. Zach's right though, the bottom of the dado doesn't really matter so as long as you can pare to you marks reasonably accuratly there is no requirement for hags tooth/router plane.

One thing I do wish I had for this is one of those double bladed Japanese inlay knives (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=33030&cat=1,250,43298,43314). It would make the layout twice as fast, and more accurate - though being the cheapskate that I am I haven't wanted it enough to spend $70 on it. Maybe I'll see if I can make my own.

[David Dalzell]

What about starting the dado with knife lines and chisel until one has a shallow dado, but enough to register for the plow plane. Then hog out all the remaining wood with the plow plane? This seems that you can get nice clean walls fairly fast with the plow plane plus clean edges by starting with knife and chisel.

[Zach Dillinger]

That would theoretically work, but I think you'll find chiseling the waste to be much easier. You would be asking the plow to do something it isn't designed to do and you would already be doing the hardest part with a chisel (i.e. starting the edges of the dado on your line and square). Chiseling to depth is simple.

[David Weaver]

What about starting the dado with knife lines and chisel until one has a shallow dado, but enough to register for the plow plane. Then hog out all the remaining wood with the plow plane? This seems that you can get nice clean walls fairly fast with the plow plane plus clean edges by starting with knife and chisel.

It seems like an invitation for blowing out the back side of the mortise. You'd want to saw cut the last bit of the back side of the mortise if you did that. I agree with zach - chisel.

[Jim Koepke]

Most of my dados for shelves and such are stopped.

The dados are laid out with a knife. A quick cut with a single bevel knife with the bevel down notches out the edges of the dado. Then a sharp chisel slightly smaller than the size of the dado is used to "plow" out the waste. Repeat until the desired depth is obtained.

250526

The chisel is used bevel down in this image.

If one's chisel skills are not as good as desired, this is good practice. Otherwise, if one wants the bottom of the dado to look great, this can be achieved with a router plane.

It actually goes fairly quickly.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

Derek,

Just curious, have to relocated to Ottawa?

Lowell

[Scott Vanzo]

Does anyone know of other sources for dado planes?

Some other options:

I've found some old but good wooden dado planes at local tool swaps for as low as $30-$35. Just make sure to bring a straight edge to test the body/sole for warp, and make sure all parts are present (including wedge, iron, knicker and stop). When in good shape they can be pressed into service quite well, even if they are not nearly as pretty as the HNT Gordon.

I also have a Stanley 13-050 combination plane that includes dual-knickers for dado work, as well as blades up to 7/8" if I remember correctly. It is a bit of a contraption, and has a brown plastic handle, but does good work when its told. I got mine for $60, but it looks like the big auction site has them sold for around $100 lately.

Stanley 13-050 Manual
(http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/stanley13050manual.pdf)
Finally, I have one of those Bishop Patent saws with the adjustable fence. I've tried it a few times, but mine is a bit hard to adjust. I will have to give it a good once-over quite soon to make the adjustment smooth, but it should be useful for sawing the walls of a dado to a fixed depth.

-Scott

[Jim Koepke]

, and has a brown plastic handle, but does good work when its told. I got mine for $60, but it looks like the big auction site has them sold for around $100 lately.

Stanley 13-050 Manual
(http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/stanley13050manual.pdf)
Finally, I have one of those Bishop Patent saws with the adjustable fence. I've tried it a few times, but mine is a bit hard to adjust. I will have to give it a good once-over quite soon to make the adjustment smooth, but it should be useful for sawing the walls of a dado to a fixed depth.

-Scott

Scott, thanks for the link to the instruction manual. My #50 is a bit older, but the same general idea.

The Bishop saw, if it is a #10 with three sets of teeth, has teeth at the end of the fence to hold it in place. It is easiest to take the hole thing apart to set the depth and then reassemble the works. It also helps if the little pin behind the lock lever is there to keep the blade from moving around in use.

250547

Is this the beast of which you speak?

jtk

[Jonathan McCullough]

Stanley 46! Rabbets, dadoes, and matching plane, multiple widths, all in one!

[Derek Cohen]

Derek,

Just curious, have to relocated to Ottawa?

Lowell

Just on holiday with friends.

Re topic: For a comparison of dado methods, please go to the link on the HNT Gordon review above.

One quick comment about dados. My preference has long been a saw and chisel. What the HNT Gordon plane demonstrated was a more efficient method. Further, while the relative smoothness of the floor of the dado is unimportant for fitting, the smoothness of the planed floors just reflects the ease with which they were made.


Regards from Mont Tremblant

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Stanley 46! Rabbets, dadoes, and matching plane, multiple widths, all in one!

The Stanley 46 is nice, but not as common as the Stanley 45. The 45 can be used to make dados.

Don't get me wrong, if a 46 came my way it would be gleefully put to use.

jtk

[Greg Portland]

My preference has long been a saw and chisel. What the HNT Gordon plane demonstrated was a more efficient method. Further, while the relative smoothness of the floor of the dado is unimportant for fitting, the smoothness of the planed floors just reflects the ease with which they were made.
Derek, how does your saw method work when dadoing across wide boards (e.g. a 12" deep shelf). Assuming you didn't have a great dado plane what technique would you use?

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Greg

There are a couple of builds on my website that use sliding dovetails. I do not have a dado, but the sliding dovetail is the same, just with perpendicular walls. Note that this is simply an illustration of others wrote before ..

Hold the saw blade firmly against a fence (2x4 will do) …

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/SlidingDovetailsByHand1_html_7d65276d.jpg

Cut as close to the line as possible …

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/SlidingDovetailsByHand1_html_251a06e6.jpg



The finished saw cuts …

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/SlidingDovetailsByHand1_html_m617e64da.jpg



Remove the waste ... first with a chisel … just zip it out ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/SlidingDovetailsByHand1_html_m2471ba9f.jpg



Then level the surface with a router plane …

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/SlidingDovetailsByHand1_html_4bb28873.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Greg Portland]

Thanks Derek. In your picture you show a large (sash?) saw that is longer than the board is wide. In your experience is there a certain point where the saw is too short? I've used a Veritas carcass saw (11" blade) to successfully cut dados in an 8" wide board but I'm wondering if my cut will wander if I try it on wider boards (12", etc.). I do knife mark my cut and chisel a ledge prior to any sawing...

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Greg

That is a mitre box saw. 24" long. It has since departed to a new home and I have another, the one below being 28" long (alongside an 11" carcase saw for comparison) ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Joints/Sliding%20dovetail%20and%20dado%20guide/saws_zps1ehucalq.jpg

The longer saw cuts more efficiently as long as you have a guide for it. The saws are resting on the reverse side of a guide I made for sliding dovetails and dados.

Each side of the guide is lined in rare earth magnets.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Joints/Sliding%20dovetail%20and%20dado%20guide/Guide_zpswgg0qpyy.jpg

This is simply a length of hardwood which is 90 degrees on one side and the dovetail angle of your preference on the other (I think that this one is 1:6) ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Joints/Sliding%20dovetail%20and%20dado%20guide/Angles_zpsx42xskdh.jpg

It is held in place with a couple of clamps, and positioning is easier as a result of the 400 grit sandpaper used as nonslip ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Joints/Sliding%20dovetail%20and%20dado%20guide/nonslip_zpsrnm6wock.jpg

The rare earth magnets hold the saw very firmly to the side for accurate sawing. They are recessed slightly, so it is also possible to run a dado plane along the side ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/HNTGordonDadoPlane_html_m43ab8688.jpg

A simple and very useful tool.

Regards from Perth

Derek