What should come first - router, table insert, lift

[Jeremy Gibson]

I'm collecting materials to build a right-hand table for my contractor-style saw and would like to add a router. Like many others here, I'm tempted by the M12 on Amazon for $159, but I keep going back and forth on a table insert and lift. I like the Woodpecker setup, but a cheaper solution would be a Rockler insert and the Router Raizer.

What are the recommendations from the creek? Perhaps it's the M12 that is making this more difficult. If I spent more on a PC I would have more choices and have an industry standard setup.

[Tim Morton]

I'm collecting materials to build a right-hand table for my contractor-style saw and would like to add a router. Like many others here, I'm tempted by the M12 on Amazon for $159, but I keep going back and forth on a table insert and lift. I like the Woodpecker setup, but a cheaper solution would be a Rockler insert and the Router Raizer.

What are the recommendations from the creek? Perhaps it's the M12 that is making this more difficult. If I spent more on a PC I would have more choices and have an industry standard setup.

I have the Hitachi and its a nice router. I use it with the plungelift, which is similar to the router raizer but with a aluminum plate and most will say it has better hardware. Check out woodpeckers.com I believe they are having a router mania sale going on now.

[Michael Ballent]

How about the Milwaukee 5625-20 and an aluminum plate from Rockler. It's a 3.5HP production router that is designed to hang under a router table, and can be height adjusted above the table. Once I get the $$$ I will be getting this little set up. :)

[Mark Singer]

I have the Hitachi and the Router Razor...Great router!

[Greg Mann]

I have the Hitachi and the Router Razor...Great router!

I have the same rig and am quite content with it. One of the things about the Hitachi that isn't mentioned often but is a nice feature,IMO, is the quick release of the collet. Most of the time, it is not necessary to raise the collet up at all to loosen if you use a bent wrench, and with a very slight turn of the wrench, a quarter turn is plenty, the shank is loose. This makes the changing of bits very fast and easy. It is the single best feature of the set-up, in my mind, and makes me feel somewhat spoiled compared to the several full turns sometimes necessary to release other collets.

Greg

[CPeter James]

I have the big Milwaukee 5625-20 on my right hand saw table and I really like it. The lift works great. If you go this route. mount the router at about a 30º angle from square. This moves the hole for the lift adjustment out from under the fence, but allows easy access to the lift lock and off/on switch. I have a foot control that I use as I have a round over bit in it most of the time that I use to take the edge off.

CPeter

[Ken Waag]

Jeremy,

I had A Woodpecker Precision lift with A PC 7518 built into mt extension table. It was a great system but I decide to try another route. If I were starting from scratch I would go this new way. By the time you buy the PC, the Lift, and materials for the table you are getting pretty close to shaper money.

I bought a cast iron router table when it was on sale for about $100. I mounted it like an extension wing and bought the Milwakee 5625 which allows for above the table height adjustments. This gives me a rock solid set up at a total cost of $350.

If I did it right there are pictures attached. Set up isn't finished but it'll give you the general idea.

[Dev Emch]

Ken...

Where in the heck did you find that cast iron router table extension wing?

A few years back, this item or a similar one was available from garret wade as well as woodcraft but then they just disappeared from the face of the earth.

I have a number of folks ask me about just such a table and I have condidered making a pattern and haveing some of these cast and metal planed.

[Jim Becker]

Dev, BenchDog now offers a cast wing. The old one you remember did indeed "disappear" off the market, although every once in awhile someone finds one "out there".

[Bill Lewis]

HTC used to also make a CI router table wing. It could be used as a extension wing, or with some fancy cast legs. It was pricey though, about $350 for just the wing and another $150 for the legs as best as I can remember. Is this the one that has since disappeared?

You wouldn't have known it was made by HTC (yes the mobile base people) unless you found the HTC literature. I called HTC about it to get pricing info etc... I think LV used to sell it.

So who makes this $100 wing?

BTW Ken, How do you like your Ridgid OSS? I've been thinking about getting one for awhile now.

[Ken Waag]

There have been a couple of questions here, and a couple of private messages asking about the cast iron wing, so I'll post some details in responses. I do this with hesitation because 1) I don't want to hi jack Jeremy's post, this is just one of many possibilities in response to his question; 2) I can already imagine the lampooning I will get.

Yes a couple of companies (NuCraft is the only name I can remember) used to have a cast iron table or wing. I think they were $300 range.

Bench dog, as Jim mentioned, added one to their line not too long ago. Also around $300. It looks very nice, but it wouldn't have helped me as part of what I wanted to eliminate was the insert plate. One more intersection and it allows more vibration than I like. I was looking to go router smack onto a big chunk of iron.

I got the table from :eek: :eek: :eek: Harbor Freight. If you can stop :eek: :D :( :mad: , heres the link: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45470 It is normally $200, but if you've ever bought anything from HF you know that you get a catalog/flyer every 3 days for the rest of your life. Occasionally they offer this thing at half price. As a kicker it ships for free! Say what you want, but 100lb of metal to your door for a total of $100 is unbelievable.

My expectations were not high, but I figured if any HF item was worth a risk, this one's not a bad bet. No moving parts :) . If it wasn't flat, my neighbor is a machinist who owes me a favor.

When it arrived, I was pleasantly suprised. The top was flat by my inspection with a .001" straight edge (except for 1/2" at the two outside corners were low, no consequence to me). The casting was pretty clean, ribbed well underneath and the mounting area for the router was nicely machined. The surface grind on top is not great as you can see in previous photo. Pretty swirly, though it is quite smooth. I will just buff it to match my saw top. The insert rings aren't great (they sit a little low), so I'm going to have my neighbor machine a couple to tighter tolerance. A person could shim them for a simpler solution.

So for a Benjamin I got the solution I wanted, a nice safety switch to boot, and a suprisingly decent fence with holdowns (which I'll sell or use elsewhere) and a hefty set of legs (which also I'll use elsewhere). I had to drill some holes to mount it, and a hole in the top for access to the Milwaukee router adjustment mechanism. I was expecting to have to engineer my own mounting system, but the stock setup worked great. I'm very happy with the setup.



Quick side note for those who might be interested: I made a decent score on the router. Amazon had a slight disount at $299, and one of those $25 of purchase over $200. I had gotten a catalog with another $25 promo code. Suprisingly with a little computer work I got the checkout to accept both, so net cost $250. so that's the math on the $350 for the rig.


Disclaimer: I am not "touting" this product, any positve comments are just my impression. This post is too long, but several people asked, so I've tried to give enough info to help anyone curious about this approach. I expect to get ripped in return. Go ahead, but please send PM, or post a reply on the thread I'm about to put up on this very issue. We don't need to turn this gentlman's post and question into an arena of debate.

[Greg Mann]

Ken,
As far as I can see, your post was germain to the oiginal questions but with just a little twist. Extra food for thought shall we say. If you get ripped it will be undeserved.

Greg

[Silas Smith]

Ken, you must be used to some of the other woodworking sites out there that only exist to insult each other and have very little to do with actually helping others out. We don't do that here. Your write up is very good and I am intrigued. Thanks for taking the time to show it. For what it's worth, I have the router raiser on a PC router and I am currently looking for a lift. It's not my favorite, but it works for now.

[Ken Waag]

Greg and Silas,

My disclaimer follows my experience on a recent sawstop thread. I was accused of "touting" the product and received private messages that misquoted and accused me of feeding information that came from Sawstop. Also a couple of threats.

You are correct that this forum is very supportive and informative. My perspective has just changed a bit, and I realize it is on account of a few people. It may just be the topic. I shouldn't have let it bleed over as I did here. Thanks for your comments.
Ken

[Allen Bookout]

Thanks for starting this post. I am considering a router table set up and have obtained some good information here. Having only used my router by hand I have very little insite into this subject. On the surface it seems as though the Harbor Freight deal would be the way to go.

My questions is: Since I am the only one who uses my garage tools and there would be no instance of two people using tools at the same time is it better to mount my router to my table saw than to having a seperate router table? If so I am assuming that it is because it has a better fence using the saw fence, generally a larger table and it saves space? Am I missing any points?

Sorry that I do not have any answers - just questions. Should I have started a seperate post? I just wanted more information regarding this subject matter.

Thanks! Allen

[Jeremy Gibson]

Ken,

You didn't highjack anything! Pics, ideas, and alternatives is what it is all about. I've looked at the HF table too. It would probably move up on my consideration list if I found it on sale for 1/2 off and if I didn't already have supplies for a home-made side table. I'm only in for $20 in oak and some spare 3/4" melamine so if I fail miserably in my own construction I may come back to it.

Thank you Ken and everyone who has chimed in here.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Ken, thanks for your post! I never knew about that cast Iron wing. I don't have room for it on my saw, but I will keep it mind for future use!

[Jerry Clark]

Ken, Thanks for the information also! I was interested in the cast piece and am considering adding a router set-up to my cabinet saw. :) Sorry you received some poison email.

[Ken Waag]

Thanks for starting this post. I am considering a router table set up and have obtained some good information here. Having only used my router by hand I have very little insite into this subject. On the surface it seems as though the Harbor Freight deal would be the way to go.

My questions is: Since I am the only one who uses my garage tools and there would be no instance of two people using tools at the same time is it better to mount my router to my table saw than to having a seperate router table? If so I am assuming that it is because it has a better fence using the saw fence, generally a larger table and it saves space? Am I missing any points?

Sorry that I do not have any answers - just questions. Should I have started a seperate post? I just wanted more information regarding this subject matter.

Thanks! Allen

Allen,
Posting here is fine. If you don't get your question answered here, if you post a thread with your specific question you'll get more response.

"Better" is relative. A seperate router table has the advantages that you can put it were you want, and you don't have to worry about clearing stuff for one machine or the other out of the way.

The advantages of mounting in the tablesaw wing are much as you've stated. You can use your TS fence and it saves floor space.

I been happy with my various extension mounted setups. I find the TS operations tend to be in the beginning of a project (sizing up parts) and routering often comes later (joinery and profiling) so I don't end up tripping over myself too often. But if space is not a concern there's no disadvantage to a seperate setup either.

As to the setup I've shown, it probably serves best if you have a router that will allow adjustment from above the table. It would work either way but if you have to reach underneath to make your height adjustments it's a pain. It's also nice of course if you catch the thing on sale (although even at $200 it not a bad deal)

Are you going to use the same router in the table and for hand use? and if so what do you have? that info would help folks give you better advice. Post or drop a line and I'm glad to offer any help I can as will many others here.
Ken

[Bill Fields]

Allen-


Just installed a Rockler large table w/ large router insert ON THE BACK of my workbench. Used hinges, such that it folds down vertically flush EVEN w/ the big 3 1/4 hp router attached.

The 'third leg" is just that --a 2-3 ft length of 3/4" pipe threaded into a flange mounted on the bottom of the table, with a walking cane rubber tip on the bottom.

Works well so far.

WHile I have a 3-car garage, I can't justify tying up all the geography with a dedicated table.

Ken Waag mentions his Harbor Freight CI Router wing--and I don't think they offer that any more--but I will check.

Best

BILL FIELDS