Complete set of tools for woodworking

[Noppadon Sirikhum]

Hello,

I'm quite reluctant to ask as the question might sound stupid, but as the wise said, the only stupid question is the question wasn't asked.

I will retire in a small village in Chiang Mai, Thailand this year. The plan is to build a sustainable farm in which, I will need to build houses and furnitures for both my family and animals. The houses will be a combination of earth-bag wall and wooden roof structure. Hand tools are preferable as we have a small kid and many other reasons.

The original question was to ask for comparison between Low-Angle and Traditional Planes as I cannot yet make a conclusion after read number of discussions on the topic. However I think it is better to ask for comments/advices on the whole list as I am just a beginner in this area. The following list covers only tool for fine woodworking, and tools that I foresee difficulty to get once I repatriate. Appreciate it if you may give me some comments/advices.

Side note, while I am quite young, I consider myself conservative. Therefore I prefer Lie-Nielsen over Veritas except when Veritas is a clear winner (router, plow). That is why there are more Lie-Nielsen in my list than Veritas.

Saws


Pax Rip Saw 28" 4.5 TPI
Pax Crosscut Panel Saw 26" 7 TPI
Pax Crosscut Panel Saw 22" 11 TPI
Lie-Nielsen Carcass Saw
Lie-Nielsen Rip Carcass Saw
Robert Larson Coping Saw


Planes

Lie-Nielsen #5 Jack Plane
Lie-Nielsen #4 Smooth Plane
Lie-Nielsen Low-Angle Adjustable-Mouth Block Plane
Kunz 151 Spokeshave Plane (AMZN)
Lie-Nielsen Medium Shoulder Plane
Veritas Router Plane
Veritas Small Plow Plane


Chisels and other

Crown 376 Scrapper (AMZN)
Flexcut Cravin' Jack (AMZN)
Fuller 3-Piece Heavy Duty Chisels (AMZN)
Ashley Illes 6-Piece Dovetail Chisel (TFWW)
Lie-Nielsen Basic Sharpening Set (Norton 1000/8000, sandpaper, small jojoba oil, and a honing guide)
Lie-Nielsen Magnifier
Wooden Mallet
Lie-Nielsen Triangle Files for each saw

[David Weaver]

Earth Bag...pretty cool.

You need a jointer in the planes.

Presume you'll be doing some timberframing. Don't forget auger drills (a power drill would be fine, of course). Is the wood for timberframing going to come from a lumber mill? You might want to get a circular saw temporarily to do the heavy cutting in the timberframing.

[Noppadon Sirikhum]

Thank you David. Appreciate your comment.

I am quite reluctant to get the Jointer Plane for its price. Can #5 Jack or LA Jack work in its place? Many reviews and specs mentioned that LA Jack can work in the place of Jointer Plane. If I go after the LA Jack, will I miss anything when working on rough surface (from hand resawing, lumber split)?

Another option for me is to get a Thai tradition Jointer. There are two offers (USD 50 each) for planes at 22", coarse version (http://www.thaicarpenter.com/%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B7%E0%B9%88%E0%B 8%AD%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%B7%E0%B8%AD/%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%AA%E0%B 8%95%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%94/%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%9A%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%AA%E0%B9%84%E0%B 8%A1%E0%B9%89/%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%A5%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%B2%E0%B 8%87%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A7-22-%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%B4%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%A7-%E0%B8%82%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%87%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%AA%E0%B 8%A7.html) and smooth version (http://www.thaicarpenter.com/%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B7%E0%B9%88%E0%B 8%AD%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%B7%E0%B8%AD/%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%AA%E0%B 8%95%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%94/%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%9A%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%AA%E0%B9%84%E0%B 8%A1%E0%B9%89/%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%9C%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%A7%E0%B 8%A2%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A722%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%B4%E0%B9%8 9%E0%B8%A7.html). Should I get a coarse or smooth one?

Circular saw received a big NO from my wife as she considered it lethal. That why I got permission for three saw (two crosscut and one rip).

[Stephen Cherry]

Noppadon- where are you located now? If you can find them, the old Stanley planes work very well. I've bought several, and with a little work they work about as well as the Lie Nielsen. I have a Lie Nielsen no 4, and it works fine, but it really is not much better than a Stanley.

As for spokeshaves, I would recomend the Lie Nielsen Boggs shaves. They are not cheap, but they do work.

Also, I have the Lie Nielsen Rabbet block plane, which is a great tool for trimming tenons, etc.

Low angle is great for end grain, high angle for face. Difficult grain likes an even higher angle.

Plus, this would be a great topic for the neanderthal forum.

[Jim Matthews]

Cast Iron and the Chiang Mai climate won't mix well.

May I recommend you shift your attention to tools with less steel?
If you are just beginning, it may be worthwhile to seek out local woodworkers,
and find out what they're using. If they're forthcoming, press them
for what they would most like to have, but cannot purchase.

Does the Bhubing palace maintain a conservator's office?
That would be a resource worthy of consultation.

A warning - it is VERY easy to buy tools, even ones you won't use.
It's more efficient to take a few instructional courses and
keep a record of the tools that are most handy.

Jim
Westport, MA USA
Where neither the weather, people nor food are so fine as in Chiang Mai.

[Steve Friedman]

A couple of thoughts on your list:

1. Since you're going to Thailand, wouldn't it make sense to consider more asian-style tools? Why take a slew of western tools to an area where asian tools are probably cheaper and more accessible? Examples are planes, chisels, and sharpening stones.
2. I would have expected to see a list of wood preparation tools, including axes, adzes, drawknives, scrub plane, and (as mentioned before) a jointer plane. You do say that these are just for fine woodworking, but you do need to be able to dimension your lumber.
3. I had a Pax full size saw and much prefer my vintage Disstons. I would suggest a few vintage saws, even if you have them professionally sharpened for the fist time.
4. Depending on what you're going to use it for, I would not get the Kunz spokeshave. Le Valley and Lie-Nielsen are far superior. If you want a "roughing" spokeshave, try to find a vintage record or stanley with a Hock replacement iron. Also, you may want consider flat, curved, and concave.
5. What do you plan to do with the Carvin' Jack? If you want to do some carving, I would opt for some actual carving tools.
6. You mention sharpening files for the saws, but what about flat file and saw vise? You also need a flat file and burnisher for the scrapers.
7. What about layout tools (marking gauges, squares, bevels, marking knife, etc.)

Good luck,

Steve

[Noppadon Sirikhum]

Actually I also considered Asian-style planes. They are quite nice, however demand skills and knowledges to set them up properly. The Western tools (Veritas, Lie-Nielsen) also require skills and knowledge, however I believe they are more beginner friendly and out-of-the-box almost ready-to-work. I heard some says, in woodworking, we should get the best tools we can afford. Is that simply a joke or a real advice?

If there is an opportunity for me to enroll in an actual training course, I won't hesitate. However I cannot count on that. I have to plane on self-study.

As for the planes go, I am considering the approach [LA Jack] > [LA Jointer] > [LA Smoother]. I am influenced by the approach in this discussion (http://www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/3449-plane-for-thicknessing/). If I go with LA approach from Veritas instead of LN, I will be able to get a Jointer under relatively similar budget. Is there anything I will miss if I follow the LA route?

Do I need a special marking tools, or ruler+pencil will be sufficient? I will get other tools in Thailand (e.g. vises, measurement, axes).


Thank you all the comments/advices and apology for my English if any confused you.


Yours,
NS

[Jim Matthews]

Your English is excellent.

These are the wooden body planes I use. http://www.hntgordon.com.au/
They're ready to work, right out of the box.

There is need for a hammer to adjust them, but it's not complicated.
There are several videos on their website, and adjustment techniques are discussed at length on YouTube.

If your intent is to use Cast Iron body planes, consult with the makers directly about storage methods.
They can be lightly coated with Camellia oil and kept in plastic bags designed to inhibit rust.

I'm a BIG fan of the Lie-Nielsen Low angle jack plane, which is tremendously flexible.

It is entirely possible that I'm over-reacting to your destination, but I have a genuine
rust problem in my basement shop, here in Coastal Massachusetts.

It rains considerably less, here (than Chiang Mai).

[Prashun Patel]

I think you'd be doing a disservice to yourself by considering Veritas less conservative than LN. The innovations Veritas puts into their planes affect convenience, ergonomics, and performance. The fundamental working of the tool, however, remains true to the original design in the critical ways. So, I'd make your decision based on the best feel and performance in your hand - not on the style.

If you choose to pick the LA trilogy of planes from Veritas instead of LN, make sure you select the Bevel up smoother - not the Low angle smoother. The reason is that the LA smoother blade is (ironically) not interchangeable with the other planes. That being said, in practice I find the interchangeability of blades to be overrated.

I do much of my jointing work with a LA jack. But I can say that a jointer does a better job of it. You can't overstate the benefit of a large, massy, wide jointer. Of course, jointing and flattening is fatiguing work, so a #7 or #8 may be heavy for you. Some find a #6 more appropriate. You really have to try this out for yourself - and I mean bring your own board to the store and work it for 5-10 minutes and see how you feel.

I would get the Veritas MKII honing guide. A lot of those sharpening videos overstate the ease of setting the blade angles with the 'cheap' side-clamping guides. The MKII is a breeze (albeit a little longer to set up). Also, the side-clamping guides don't hold narrow chisels well.

I wouldn't get the Kunz spokeshave. I'd get the Veritas one (straight bottomed) or one of the Boggs shaves from LN. Get one that has blade depth adjustment knobs.

If you are planning to cut dovetails, consider a 14-20tpi dovetail saw - like the one from Veritas. I think the Veritas detail saws are about the best value out there (if price is an issue).

For the LN adj-mouth block, I would also try the LN102. Some people (like me) with smaller hands prefer the 102. Even without the adjustable mouth, I use my 102's as scrubs (heresy!!!), so they can be aggressive when sharpened right.

[David Weaver]

Thank you David. Appreciate your comment.

I am quite reluctant to get the Jointer Plane for its price. Can #5 Jack or LA Jack work in its place? Many reviews and specs mentioned that LA Jack can work in the place of Jointer Plane. If I go after the LA Jack, will I miss anything when working on rough surface (from hand resawing, lumber split)?

Another option for me is to get a Thai tradition Jointer. There are two offers (USD 50 each) for planes at 22", coarse version (http://www.thaicarpenter.com/%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B7%E0%B9%88%E0%B 8%AD%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%B7%E0%B8%AD/%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%AA%E0%B 8%95%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%94/%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%9A%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%AA%E0%B9%84%E0%B 8%A1%E0%B9%89/%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%A5%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%B2%E0%B 8%87%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A7-22-%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%B4%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%A7-%E0%B8%82%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%87%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%AA%E0%B 8%A7.html) and smooth version (http://www.thaicarpenter.com/%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B7%E0%B9%88%E0%B 8%AD%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%B7%E0%B8%AD/%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%AA%E0%B 8%95%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%94/%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%9A%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%AA%E0%B9%84%E0%B 8%A1%E0%B9%89/%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%9C%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%A7%E0%B 8%A2%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A722%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%B4%E0%B9%8 9%E0%B8%A7.html). Should I get a coarse or smooth one?

Circular saw received a big NO from my wife as she considered it lethal. That why I got permission for three saw (two crosscut and one rip).

Either of those jointers would be fine. I can't see the mouths, so I would probably go for the coarse. You should be able to work a fairly thick shaving with the jointer, and don't want a plane designed for smoothing if you're not going to have access to power tools.

The LA jack can be used in the place of a jointer plane, it'll just take a little more care if you you're looking to make something that's big fairly flat.

You will need a straight edge regardless, something about 2 feet long is good, and you could ultimately make it out of quartersawn wood if you need to keep costs down, and use a jack instead to do the bulk of the flattening.

[Shawn Russell]

I agree with Prashun. It is early in the year and many woodworking shoes to attend. You are looking at spending a few thousand for all the tools you have listed. I would certainly visit a LN handtool event and one of the shows that Veritas travels to and compare the differences. I own both and do prefer the LN just for the extra weight but the LV low angle is a winner also their planes that allow the handle to pivot is also a winner.

[Shawn Russell]

One other suggestion. I am a huge fan of Blue Spruce chisels. The chisel handles and mallet are darn near indestructible.