Sound advantage or difference of a helical cutter head

[John Piwaron]

Those of you that have made the change to some kind of helical or spiral cutter head for your jointer and/or planer - besides the obvious benefits of no more knife changes or cutting quality improvements, did you notice any reduction in the noise the machine makes?

I'm asking because I saw an ad today from Felder about their "silent spiral" cutter head. The video they have (with sound) shows a regular knife planer vs a silent spiral planer. In their video, the silent spiral is considerably quieter than the knifed version. Sound is the one thing I never see discussed here. I'm wondering if all helical cutter heads have that property, or has Felder discovered something that's now only in their machines?

[gary Zimmel]

I have Byrd heads in my 8" jointer and 15" planer and the noise reduction is huge compared to when I had knifes in the machines.

[James Baker SD]

I put Byrds in Powermatic joiner and planers. Big reduction in noise.

[David Kumm]

All spiral or helical heads reduce sound quite a lot. Felder developed their own to save power on their single phase machines. Byrds take more HP than a straight knife and Felder was concerned about installing it in the smaller motor machines. Theirs worked so well it is now offered in all series. The numbers on HP usage are impressive and it has channels that direct the chips into the dust chute. Another advantage is the chip size is smaller and requires less cfm. I'm still a straight knife guy for old machines and was a skeptic until I saw it in person but I think it may be the best insert head I've seen. I have straight knives, Byrd, and ITCH. Only missing the Tersa. They all have their pluses and minuses. Dave

[Sam Murdoch]

I put Byrds in Powermatic joiner and planers. Big reduction in noise.

The Felder heads are not available as replacements for other manufactured machines are they?

[David Kumm]

The Felder heads are not available as replacements for other manufactured machines are they?

No. I don't think they are even available for Felder replacements yet but are planned for the future. Byrd is the way to go for retrofit. Dave

[howard s hanger]

I was told when I ordered a Hammer A3-31 if I wanted the spiral head, it had to be ordered with the machine. No retrofitting offered at this time. I'm glad I did. It is very quiet.

[Cary Falk]

I went from a lunchbox planer to a 15" stationary with a grizzly spiral head. I can have a conversation next to it now and don't feel bad about running it with the garage door open. It is about as loud as my dust collector while running wood.

[Mark Kornell]

I put a Byrd in my Dewalt 735. It was pretty loud to begin with, and the new head didn't reduce the sound in any significant way. A little, perhaps something like 3 db. (No, didn't use a sound meter. In hindsight, should've.) The sound is a different pitch, around half an octave lower, and is more bearable.

The Dewalt has a built in blower which contributes to the noise. Hard to tell how much that contributes to the overall sound.

The noisiest planer I have ever heard, by far, was a Delta X15 with a helical head. It was hooked up to an industrial DC, and there was something about how the air was pulled across the head that generated an almighty howl. Impossible to have a conversation within 50 ft of the thing when it was in use and the DC was on. It was a lot quieter without the DC running, although still just as loud as my Delta.

[Danny Hamsley]

The spiral heads with the carbide inserts are the best thing since sliced bread and fuel injection. Easier on the ears, too.

[glenn bradley]

I have Byrd heads in my 8" jointer and 15" planer and the noise reduction is huge compared to when I had knifes in the machines.

+1 on what Gary said. Mine are not Byrd heads but they are spooky-quiet compared the the knifed units they replaced.

[John Piwaron]

I put a Byrd in my Dewalt 735. It was pretty loud to begin with, and the new head didn't reduce the sound in any significant way. A little, perhaps something like 3 db. (No, didn't use a sound meter. In hindsight, should've.) The sound is a different pitch, around half an octave lower, and is more bearable.

The Dewalt has a built in blower which contributes to the noise. Hard to tell how much that contributes to the overall sound.

The noisiest planer I have ever heard, by far, was a Delta X15 with a helical head. It was hooked up to an industrial DC, and there was something about how the air was pulled across the head that generated an almighty howl. Impossible to have a conversation within 50 ft of the thing when it was in use and the DC was on. It was a lot quieter without the DC running, although still just as loud as my Delta.


I've got a DeWalt DW733 that I'm considering this for. I looked at the Byrd site and don't see a replacement head listed for it. I suppose that doesn't mean one isn't, just that I didn't see it. I found another place, Global Tooling I think, that says they have one for it.

However, your results aren't encouraging. Yet, money aside, I don't have room for another floor standing planer. So, it's modify my lunchbox and be happy with a better cut and/or never having to change knives again.

maybe I can get room for a new floor standing machine if I get rid of my wife's washer or dryer. . . . . .

[Grant Wilkinson]

John: If the 733 is still under warranty, you may want to wait to replace the head. I contacted Dewalt about putting a Byrd on my 735 and they told me the warranty was void if I did. As David said earlier in this thread, the Byrd needs more HP than a knife head and Dewalt told me that the 735 was not built to handle the demand. Having said that, I've read of many people putting Byrd heads on 735 machines and loving them.

[Rod Sheridan]

All spiral or helical heads reduce sound quite a lot. Felder developed their own to save power on their single phase machines. Byrds take more HP than a straight knife and Felder was concerned about installing it in the smaller motor machines. Theirs worked so well it is now offered in all series. The numbers on HP usage are impressive and it has channels that direct the chips into the dust chute. Another advantage is the chip size is smaller and requires less cfm. I'm still a straight knife guy for old machines and was a skeptic until I saw it in person but I think it may be the best insert head I've seen. I have straight knives, Byrd, and ITCH. Only missing the Tersa. They all have their pluses and minuses. Dave

I believe that the Felder Silent Power head is also the only MAN rated head available.............Rod.

[Erik Christensen]

I have a 5HP Clearvue DC with 6" pipe all the way to the modified planer dust shroud - when the DC is running the air flow noise through the planer is so loud I cannot tell if the 15" grizzly spiral planer is running or not.

[John Piwaron]

John: If the 733 is still under warranty,

No, that's long expired. This is going to be about deciding when/if to buy and install. Reduced noise would be a big benefit.

Even if it was new out of the box, would voiding the warranty really be a big deal?

[Victor Robinson]

Here is a video someone posted with a before and after of the Byrd installed in the Dewalt 735. Though much of the noise with the 735 is from the blower, the video should give an idea of the pitch difference between straight and spiral heads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb-OUeBRQ24

[Mark Kornell]

... However, your results aren't encouraging. Yet, money aside, I don't have room for another floor standing planer. So, it's modify my lunchbox and be happy with a better cut and/or never having to change knives again. ...

Well, I do like the Byrd head - a lot. I went through a set of knives (both sides) planing about 1000 lf of 1x4 fir, and felt that going to a helical head would pay off over time. Got the head 9 months ago, and probably am half way to payoff. In terms of quality, the cut stays consistently good for a long time, regardless of the type of wood I run through it. Long enough that I've only needed to rotate a few of the inserts so far, in each case because of a nick. I did find that after running pitchy wood (fir, pine), the inserts looked gummed up. The cut quality hadn't changed, but I was concerned that the pitch buildup might lead to heat, causing dulling, so I pulled them all and cleaned the inserts and the head. Still going on the same side of the inserts.

Contrasting that to the stock head and knives - a set of fresh knives does leave a better surface than the Byrd. However, that only lasts for about 3 boards. By day #2 of a knife change, the knives have dulled enough that the Byrd is at least as good. By week #2, the Byrd is clearly superior. I'm on week 40-ish of the same insert sides on the new head, and I don't want to think about what kind of shape a set of knives would be in by now.

I don't want this to sound like an advert for Byrd - I put a different brand spiral head in my jointer a year and a half ago, and the experience was basically the same. Little or no impact on the sound, but a vastly improved cutter life over the stock knife setup. Still on the original insert sides, though I use the planer more than the jointer.

I always wear ear protection around power machinery anyway, so sound impact was not a factor in deciding to go with the helical heads. I just didn't like the expense and time involved in changing knives.

The helical head does put a heavier load on the Dewalt. Haven't noticed a difference on the jointer. I generally only advance the cut about 1/32 at a time on wide boards now. And, a 1/16" cut is about the maximum that you can take on any board. This is kind of a built-in limitation of the cutter head - it is a smaller diameter that the stock head, which means that the bottom of it sits a bit higher. The clearance between the cutting arc of the head and the bottom of the cover assembly is only slightly more than 1/16", which is the effective maximum depth of cut. This also put the thickness scale out of whack, though it can be adjusted.

[Jim Andrew]

Erik, I have a 2 hp cyclone, and it is plenty for my 15" planer. In fact, I can leave the gate open on my jointer and it still gets all the dust from the planer. If you take the hood off, there is not much room for the air to go through the planer. Think that is why it works better with the foam strip removed from the hood. What the foam strip does is keep the air from being collected around the feed roller, but it appears to need the air space. Your 5 hp cyclone is sucking so much air from around the cutterhead that it is setting up a vibration.

[Gerry S. Wojtowicz]

Can anyone tell me the exact difference between a spiral or helical cutter head. I am looking into a Grizzley 6 inch planer with a spherical cutter head. I've heard both terms but do not know what the differences are (if any) between them.

[Morey St. Denis]

Well, I've never come across any wood surface planer cutting head refered to as "spherical". That would imply a planetary sphere in the shape of a globe spinning about its axis. In practice, the observable effect would be not much different from a ball-ended milling cutter, like with the ball-ended router bit, except perhaps on a different scale...

I will tell you that there are true helical cutter heads and there are those that you should avoid spending any money on - what some manufacturers have elected to call "spiral" cutter heads, but are often semi-spiral types without all the benefits inherent with the true helical cutter head with their balanced multiplicity of rotationally indexed, replaceable carbide cutters. The Steel City brand at the economy end comes to mind, with its semi-spiral cutter head which appears they would like you believe performs as well as a lower horsepower helical... Do Not be fooled!

Another important point previously missed in this discussion of measurable noise levels between various surface planer cutter heads is the full extent of the contribution of inherent motor noise. AC universal motors with their high frequency alternating and reversing contact switching commutators are screaming noisy beasts under load! An equivalent, or larger horsepower induction motor is vastly preferred as it is much smoother and quieter. For example; a DeWalt DW735 or similar bench-top planer with expensive upgrade to the Byrd compact helical cutter head will still disappoint you with nearly as much noise, but somewhat better surface quality, as nearly any similar true helical cutter head design driven by an AC induction motor.

[John Piwaron]

Just for giggles I went on 2 websites looking at floor standing planers. Powermatic has a couple of interesting models incorporating the Byrd shelix head. Hammer has one planer, a 16" model with their silent spiral head. similarly priced.

But the weight of those machines! I got my Unisaw into my basement workshop 'cause I could take much of it apart and carry the pieces down. But a planer - doesn't look like that plan is feasible for them. I have no idea how I'd get a 630 to 800 lb machine into my basement. Yes, I saw a video of how one of this sites members got his Hammer table saw down by using a power assisted device on his stairs. Kind of like those powered chairs some people have in their homes to go from one level to another. I don't have one and probably never will.

I could reinforce the stairs I think, but lower such a machine and then one day bring it back out - ????? Maybe the problem here is that I think in terms of working alone. Always have, probably always will. The working alone part. :)

[Jim Neeley]

John,

Think in terms of a winch with power outfeed and some 2x24's laid on the stairs. Between the angle of the stairs and the friction of the wooden 2x's, it won't take an immense amount to slow it down; it might just take some tallow to get it to move!! Think through any turns at the bottom however!!

[Myk Rian]

I put a Byrd in my Dewalt 735. It was pretty loud to begin with, and the new head didn't reduce the sound in any significant way.
I don't understand why not. I can stand next to mine and have a normal conversation. The DC is louder than the planer.

[Mark Kornell]

I don't understand why not. I can stand next to mine and have a normal conversation. The DC is louder than the planer.

Really?! Definitely not my experience. I do suspect that a big chunk of the noise coming from the 735 is from the blower, rather than noise generated by the cutterhead, which would go a long ways to explaining why a change in the head didn't result in a change in the noise. Either way. ear protection is mandatory.

[John Piwaron]

Jim, no turns. It's straight down. Plenty of space at the bottom. But 2 steps to lift it up to the entry door. The Hammer/Felder people deliver and place in the shop don't they? That could be a point in their favor.

[Mark Ashmeade]

Is the stairs the only access? I have a walk-out basement shop, and use a normal sack truck/dolly to move heavy items down to the shop. It's a bit bumpy on the grass on the way down, but not unmanageable. My 700lb RAS went down that way, as did the DC, planer, jointer, Sawstop, and a 300lb granite slab that is now my assembly table.

As for the Shelix, having just put one in my PM15S, I can say that there wasn't a vast difference in noise at all. That said, the 15S already had a spiral head in it. It uses knives set on a spiral. As such, there would only be a small part of each of the three knives in contact with the wood at any point, similar to the Byrd. I didn't expect a big difference in sound level. The DC was already louder than the planer. The reason I went for the Shelix was dulling, and above all, chips in the blade. The blades I just took out were about 18 months old, with minimal use (I don't do a lot of planing), and were chipped to hell and dull.

[John Piwaron]

Is the stairs the only access? I have a walk-out basement shop.

Stairs are it. Walk out would be nice, but adding that would be a serious project. I have a dream (don't we all) of a garage/shop one day, but i'm not holding my breath.

this is my hobby, and if I want one, I'll get it, but I have to deal with the in/out problem. And the older I get, the more likely I'll have to get help or have someone else do the serious grunt work that this is.

[Ted Friesen]

Grant I upgraded my DW735 with a Byrd Shelix cutter head. I have not had power problems. I did have cutter problems with three of the cutters breaking in a year. The company refused to replace the cutters so I'm soured on Byrd, but aside from the broken cutters happy with the conversion.

[Matt Day]

Ted, don't forget to check the date of the threads. This one is 4 years old.