Do I really NEED an SCMS in my shop? Help me think this through.

[Dan Case LR]

I built a shop cabinet recently--a little rolling box-o-drawers to go under my TS extension table. I had a bunch of Baltic Birch plywood on hand at the time, and the only place I could put it blocked access to the SCMS, so I built the whole cabinet (including nine drawers) with just the TS. I kept thinking I'd come to a place where I needed the SCMS, but with the Incra miter gauge I could do everything perfectly on the TS. My next planned project is a new stand for the SCMS with downdraft dust collection, and as I've been working on that design I've found myself wondering if I even need the silly thing.

If I had lots of available floor space or was doing production out there, it would be a no-brainer. In my case, neither applies. If I had a really low-end table saw I couldn't trust, the SCMS would be much more important (I can remember those days), but I have a 10-year-old Grizzly 1023 cabinet saw with a 53" Biesmeyer clone fence, Incra 1000HD miter gauge and folding outfeed table. The Incra 1000HD is outstanding when it comes to miters, repetitive cuts and pieces. As long as I keep it tuned up and the battery is good in my Tilt Box, I trust my TS as much as I can trust any machine. And if I spin off the SCMS, I can use the space for that lathe I've always wanted.

Yet, there's this niggling little voice in my head telling me that the minute I get rid of the SCMS I'll find that situation where nothing else will work and I'll wish I had it. What do you guys think--do I really need an SCMS? Will I regret it if I get rid of it?

Thanks!

D.

[Rich Riddle]

You need it like Cupid needs a bow and arrow. What would he be without his tools? What would you be without yours?

[scott spencer]

I don't own a SCMS, and only use my CMS for really long pieces like molding.

[John TenEyck]

It seems you've proven to yourself that you don't need it when working in your shop. But do you think you will be in need of your SCMS for some on-site work in the future, even if only in your own house? I never had a CMS until a few years ago when I started doing work for others. But I can tell you that making dozens of trips up and down stairs doing trim work in my own house was a real pain and I sure wished I had a CMS long before I bought one. While working in my shop, however, I rarely use it. The TS and RAS fulfill my needs. But w/o the RAS I would want a SCMS. IMO, both the RAS and SCMS are much easier to use for cut off work, especially when the parts get long.

John

[Rich Riddle]

John, like a lot of woodworkers and builders, I use the sliding compound miter saw to replace the radial arm saw. I haven't used or owned a radial arm saw in years (more out of shop limitations related to space than anything). There are some great prices out there on some of them though.

[Charles Wiggins]

I don't know that completing one project without it "doth a conclusion make," but it's a start. I know for myself that lately I've used my SCMS more than my table saw, but I've done several quick projects that required crosscutting long stock, which would be a bear for my TS setup. You know best how YOU work and what kinds of projects YOU do. If you have doubts, find a handy out of the way place to store the saw for a few months and see if you miss the saw more than you enjoy the reclaimed space.

[ian maybury]

I went without an SCMS because my (panel) saw has more than 8ft cross cut capability - plus accurate angle setting. (also an Incra mitre gauge for short work, and the factory fence for long stuff) So far so good, but I do little of that sort of cutting.

One issue for sure is that if you need to let the piece you are cutting extend for a long distance to the RH side of the blade you will need to remove the rip fence and have sufficient room space (and maybe work supports) to allow this. It might require switching back to a cross cut blade more frequently than usual too.

One definite advantage of an SCMS is that you can haul it off on site somewhere if needed...

ian

[Rick Potter]

Put it on a shelf somewhere for six months, and really see if you need it before you dispose of it.

OR....loan it to a neighbor. When it comes back, you may not even recognize it:eek:, much less want it.

Rick Potter

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Any woodworking task that I can think of can be completed satisfactorily several different ways, but one of the SCMS strengths that would be hard to replace in my shop, would be repetitive processing to finished length. Because a SCMS is easily paired with a decent stop system, it is the most efficient tool for the job usually.

I have a really nice sliding table saw, but I still use the SCMS a lot because the stock is more controled for the longer cuts. Yesterday I cut a stack of furring strips to 93" from 96" That is an awkward cut on a tablesaw, but super easy on a chop saw.

Sure, you could get by without one, but why?

[Mark Ashmeade]

A SCMS can be made to fit in 4sq ft of floor space. Are you really that short of floor space?

[Robert Chapman]

I have a Bosch Glide miter saw which is a very accurate saw. However, I rarely use it and now that I have an Incra 1000HD miter guage for the TS I will use the miter saw even less frequently. Having said that I will keep the miter saw unless I discover that I must have another tool that requires the space that the Bosch uses.

[Dick Mahany]

It all depends on your needs. I replaced an old (but loved) RAS with a Bosch 10" (non-glide) SCMS on the Bosch gravity-rise portable stand, because I wanted one, and it fit in the same footprint as the old trusty RAS. I have only used it for exterior projects such as garage door and window trim (where I had it set up outside), but it worked great. The problem for me is that when I set it up inside the shop, it takes too much room for the table extensions, and therefore doesn't get used because of that. If I had the space to leave it set up, then I would use it more, but mostly it just sits all folded up cozy in its spot :(. BTW my "shop" needs to share space with a FJ40 Landcruiser, Tundra or Tahoe (2 out of 3 at a time) , so I'm not complaining but I'd really like to use the SCMS more.

[Jim O'Dell]

I have a permanent/mobile/multipurpose spot for my SCMS and couldn't do without it. I still need to build in a dust collection hood for it, but..... I also have a RAS that will fit the same spot. I used to love my original RAS. Built a complete kitchen with it and a B&D router and small steel table. Wouldn't even attempt to try it now. When I killed my original RAS cutting Pavestone wall blocks, I got my Ridgid contractor saw, then a little Ryobi miter saw. I was hooked. I now have a Hitachi SCMS, a Grizzly TS, the Ridgid TS, and my Dad's RAS, and I've only used the RAS one time in 3 years. I'd let it go, except for the sentimental value. So my vote is to keep the SCMS. I use mine basically for building shop tables right now, but it will pay for itself when I finally get to start building cabinets and use it for trim and face frames. Jim.

[Jim Andrew]

I'm keeping mine.

[Dan Case LR]

Interesting range of viewpoints on this one. Very interesting indeed.

Oddly enough, I currently own two 12" sliders. I have a Dewalt DW708 that was my first "good" saw. I bought it (Along with the Dewalt DW730 stand and accessories) when remodeling a couple of rooms of the house 12 or 13 years ago. It's a great saw, as long as you're not concerned with dust collection. The slide sticks out so far the back that serious dust collection requires an incredibly deep and wide hood, and even then the saw loves to spew dust at the operator. Not bad outside, not at all good inside. I picked up a Hitachi C12RSH because it can be set up with the slides locked forward and the saw head moving on the slides, which is a shallower (and constant-depth) configuration that's a lot easier to build a hood around.

When I bought the Hitachi, I told my wife I'd sell the Dewalt, but I never got around to it. Instead, I tucked it under my TS extension wing, the space I just filled with drawers. Now, I'm tripping over it again and I guess I'll have to sell it. When I say I'm overcrowded, I mean it!

D.

[Jeff Monson]

Dan, maybe you should start with baby steps, just sell the one for now. Going cold turkey and getting rid of both would be a little drastic in my book. Seriously I couldnt be without mine, being able to quickly and accuratly cut stock to length is very important to me.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have a non sliding Makita that's only used outdoors, mostly by my friends.

It's never used in the shop for making furniture, I guess this year when I put in some hardwood flooring it will be outside on the patio.

Regards, Rod.

[Paul Murphy]

I rarely use my 12" CMS, but like others I bought it for a house trim project. One thing that I use it for in the shop is cross-cutting 4" stock, something that my 10" tablesaw cannot do in one pass. I could do without it as long as I don't have projects requiring work at other locations.

[Joe Angrisani]

I guess I'm in the camp that believes a CMS excels at cutting compound angles and long pieces (not a SCMS fan). Both "compound" and "long" are a bit of a bear on the table saw.

[Charles McKinley]

With the Home Depot "ridgid" MSUV the saw can be tucked away and brought out and set up quickly. The stand also makes it much easier to transport the saw by yourself.

[Von Bickley]

I could get by without my CMS, but I would not want to get rid ot it. I use mine a lot. I guess it depends on the type of work that you do.

If you start getting rid of tools, you will lose the contest. He who dies with the most tools will win.

[Mike Zilis]

I had thought that my table saw could do both cross and rip cuts, but I find it much more efficient to dedicate my table saw for ripping and my Bosch 4410 for cross cut duty. In fact I'd like to sell my 4410 and get a Bosch 12" Glide so my cross cut capacity grows a bit more. I love using a glue line rip blade on my Sawstop and I rarely need to to change it out as long as my SCMS is doing its job. The Forest Chopmaster Signature blade does a great job.

[Dan Case LR]

Dan, maybe you should start with baby steps, just sell the one for now. Going cold turkey and getting rid of both would be a little drastic in my book. Seriously I couldnt be without mine, being able to quickly and accuratly cut stock to length is very important to me.

I'm definitely selling the Dewalt. In fact, when I'm finished on the computer here I'm going to venture into my storage room and try to find the DW730 stand (it's in there somewhere).

I agree that there's a lot of value in the ability to quickly and accurately cut stock to length. Unfortunately, my current setup doesn't facilitate that. I have the saw on a Rousseau 2875XL rolling stand, but the space is such that it's so much work to open up the infeed/outfeed wings (thus making the stop system available) that I usually don't bother. That, and I've added a dust collection box that has made the combination less stable than I expected. I pretty much need to keep it against a wall so it won't want to tip over backwards. I have a much better cabinet designed for it, now I'm just deciding if it should be a priority or not

I think I'm going to rearrange a little and move the SCMS to a different spot (and add some back support to the box). Then I'll evaluate how I use it over the next few months and decide later whether to keep it in the shop or stash it away somewhere in case I need it for an outside-the-shop project. Seems like the best compromise for now.

D.

[Mark Kornell]

The first power tool I ever bought (only 10 years ago, and now I'm trying to make a living building custom furniture) was a Hitachi C10FS, and they'll have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands. I don't use it a lot - mostly breaking down long stock, and cutting moulding and flooring pieces when SWMBO has a house project for me - but I couldn't imagine doing those tasks without it. If I had a slider TS, that would be another matter. An SCMS excels as doing compound angle cuts, like crown moulding, but if you can do a bit of math or buy a crown moulding cutting support jig, a slider can do everything a SCMS can do. Well, trimming the end of a 16-foot long piece of baseboard might be awkward on a slider. Still doable.