G.WEIKE Metal and non-metal CO2 laser

[Daniel Wolanski]

I am in the market for another laser and saw that G.Weike offers a laser that can cut 2 mm carbon or stainless steel along with the standard wood, acrylic, etc. It has a 130W Reci. It can only cut, not engrave. It has a more precise ball / screw drive instead of belts along with a feedback loop for the servo controllers. I have a customer that needs parts very accurate. I have been getting accuracy of about +/-.07 mm from my current stepper driven laser but would like to add more precision and metal cutting. Has anyone had experience with this model? Here are the specs. There are also some Youtube vids showing them cutting metal with it. Search G.Weike.

Standard: Panasonic Servo Motor, Ball screw, auto height adjust system, advanced LW16 water cooler. It can cut metal up to 2mm and acrylic up to 25mm, wood up to 15mm

LC1390s Metal&Nonmetal machine

Specification :



Model
LC1390s


Engraving size
1300*900mm


Overall dimensions
2,120x1,715X1,250mm


Laser power
V6(130w)


Cutting speed
0 – 50 mm/s


Reposition accuracy
±0.05mm


Working voltage
AC110- 220V±10%,50-60Hz


Consuming power
less than 1,000W


Working temperature
0 - 45°C


Working humidity
8 - 95%


Minimum letter size
English :1 x 1mm Chinese:2 x 2mm


Supported file format
BMP, HPGL, PLT, DST, DXP, and AI


Driving system
Servo motors


Laser tube cooling type
Water-cooling chiller LW16 or cooling machine and protection system


Other auxiliary equipment
Exhaust-fans and air-exhaust pipe


Laser control software
DSP control system


Compatible software
CorelDraw AutoCAD Photoshop


Laser tube type:
Sealed CO2 glass laser tube

[Mike Null]

Their website doesn't indicate that this model can cut metal. http://wklaser.com/product/11_202.html

[Daniel Wolanski]

It's this model with a 1390 sized bed http://www.wklaser.com/product/11_242.html

[Daniel Wolanski]

250237250238250239 250241Here are some images they sent.

[Rodne Gold]

You will have to jump thru hoops to cut metal with a 130w Co2 and I can assure you that if you do manage you will not have a slag free or accurate piece at the end of it.

[Mike Lysov]

I am getting a 280W laser cutter with two GSI 140W tubes and even it is way more than a signle 150W tube with a maximum power for WKLaser LC1313M model I won't be able to cut through any kind of metal. Unless I will use nitrogen/oxygen. That's probably what they use in their LC1313M model.

There is a good tool on Synrad website that shows power, speed, lens and gas required to cut through different materials. Have a look at
http://www.synrad.com/Applications/LaserProcessCalculator.htm

[Daniel Wolanski]

They are telling me that it is an oxygen assist. That is how they are cutting through metal. I believe kern does the same with their 150w GSI shown cutting metal in their website. I wonder how much o2 I would go through to cut metal.

[Mike Lysov]

I have not had experience with metal cutting but from I found on the Internet you do not need gas supplied at high pressure.
I am going to try my laser to cut metal too once I get it.

[john banks]

Usually the topic of Gas assisted lasers is one of only two banned subjects here but over the last couple of days I've been asked about O2 assisted lasers after a few far eastern suppliers / manufacturers have offered them to the general public. It's one occasion where I cannot support the sale of machines like this for a number of reasons below.


I think what we are seeing from China is a sideways attack method at cutting metal using the beam of a midrange tube used to heat the metal with the introduction of Oxygen to cause a highly exothermic oxidation reaction. While many industrial machines do similar or the same they also have some stringent manufacturing controls on items such as gas fittings , gas lines etc etc.


In the west (especially the UK) there are very tight controls on importing machines that use potentially explosive gasses and the safety features they encompass if destined for an industrial environment.


It also raises the danger of some less experienced users getting hold of such machines and without experience or knowledge of high pressure gasses the risk of injury (including death) must be fairly high.


BOC are one of the biggest suppliers of Tanked O2 in this country and on many occasions will not supply O2 bottles other than for a fully insured / inspected industrial environment and with good reason, I had a chat with a couple of fellow forum guys the other day and asked what would they use on the thread of the O2 tank if it seemed tight or was binding, both said "a squirt of WD40", I'll let readers look up on Google why that isn't such a great idea ;) Now this isn't a dig at the guys, why would they think otherwise but these are guys that have quite a lot of experience with lasers so now imagine the scenario if a darwin award candidate gets hold of something like this?


Just with simple CO2 tube based 40 watt machines I've personally seen people buy them and try to use them in many cases where I wouldn't trust those same people with a pair of Scissors (sounds harsh but jet washing the inside of a laser while it's powered up??!!). If machines that pump high pressure Oxygen fall into the hands of those people (due to lower Chinese prices) I can pretty much stake serious $$$ on the fact it's only going to be a matter of time before lack of experience / stringent safety features ends up relocating somebodies house and its occupants.


Most people that know me will know I'm a outspoken supporter of Chinese machines and Chinese manufacturers in general, that said I wouldn't even consider buying ANY Chinese made gas assisted laser. Having seen an O2 tank explode the risk over cost benefit for me is just wayyyy too imbalanced. Even if the machine does end up being a safe one some of the end users won't be and some of the machine sellers may not realise what they are selling amounts to a pretty powerful bomb in the wrong hands.


Above is from a UK forum, but I don't think I'm allowed to reference it here. However, I feel terrible quoting something without a reference. At least I'll try to credit it to Spooky (Dave) from oplaser.co.uk

[matthew knott]

Oxygen assist :( not something for an amateur to play with IMHO, nitrogen is what's normal but then you have to use a laser actually designed for the job. Get a fire going with an oxygen feed and its a pretty impressive thing, gets out of hand in seconds and you may not have time to shut the bottle off! Just be careful and do plenty of due diligence, remember health and safety in china is pretty much non existent so anything goes

[Mike Lysov]

yes, I have seen that post from UK forum and I am going to try with nitrogen only.

[Dan Hintz]

yes, I have seen that post from UK forum and I am going to try with nitrogen only.
This will not do the same thing as oxygen... nitrogen is introduced to void the cutting / burning area of atmospheric air, i.e., oxygen, to prevent burning. What you're looking for with oxygen is to get the metal hot enough with the laser that the oxygen then takes over the cutting action (you could turn the laser off at that point).

I think you need to spend some time understanding what these machines do and how they accomplish that goal before wasting your money on one.

[Daniel Wolanski]

I didn't realize that this was an emerging technology with the Chinese. I assumed that these were common place since the technology has been around for a while (Kern uses O2 to cut metal on a 150W GSI). I'm very glad I posted here to get a better idea of this technology and its hazards.

[Mike Lysov]

This will not do the same thing as oxygen... nitrogen is introduced to void the cutting / burning area of atmospheric air, i.e., oxygen, to prevent burning. What you're looking for with oxygen is to get the metal hot enough with the laser that the oxygen then takes over the cutting action (you could turn the laser off at that point).

I think you need to spend some time understanding what these machines do and how they accomplish that goal before wasting your money on one.

I guess it was not supposed to be sent to me but just in case it was, what do you mean by "wasting"? I am not buying a laser for metal cutting and I am not wasting anything. I am buying a new laser to cut MDF, that's what I have been doing with my current 100W laser for the last three years. So I am not new to laser cutting.

I just thought I would try my new laser for metal cutting since there is enough power to do it. I am not an expert in metal cutting and all my thoughts of using nitrogen is based on a few Internet sources, with some of them being quite reliable. If they say nitrogen can be used to do it why should I really need to go deep into technical details to see if it really can do it or not.

[Dan Hintz]

I guess it was not supposed to be sent to me but just in case it was, what do you mean by "wasting"? I am not buying a laser for metal cutting and I am not wasting anything. I am buying a new laser to cut MDF, that's what I have been doing with my current 100W laser for the last three years. So I am not new to laser cutting.

I just thought I would try my new laser for metal cutting since there is enough power to do it. I am not an expert in metal cutting and all my thoughts of using nitrogen is based on a few Internet sources, with some of them being quite reliable. If they say nitrogen can be used to do it why should I really need to go deep into technical details to see if it really can do it or not.

Sorry, Mike, I got your post confused with Daniel's request to purchase a new laser. In his case, purchasing a machine to cut metal would be a waste of money... in your case, you already have the machine, but it would be a waste of your time to try to cut metal using nitrogen.

As I said, Nitrogen is used as a shield gas, but the lasers they are using are measure in kiloWatts... in those cases, the laser itself is doing the cutting. In the prior scenario, the low-power laser (150W) is just heating the metal and the high-pressure oxygen is doing the actual cutting. Different machines, different processes, and you can't mix half of one process with half of another machine.

[Mike Lysov]

As I said, Nitrogen is used as a shield gas, but the lasers they are using are measure in kiloWatts... in those cases, the laser itself is doing the cutting. In the prior scenario, the low-power laser (150W) is just heating the metal and the high-pressure oxygen is doing the actual cutting. Different machines, different processes, and you can't mix half of one process with half of another machine.

Ok I see what you mean. Can you explain the fact that Firestar says on their website that you can cut metals with nitrogen and at least 200W tube? I have seen nitrogen as a solution to cut metals in some researches found on the Internet. Almost all of them mentioned a few kilowatt lasers but then I have seen that calculator on the Firestar(http://www.synrad.com/Applications/calculator/launch.html) website and it has an option to cut 0.1" steel at 3ipm and nitrogen as a gas.

I do not think it's mistake in the calculator because they have some tough logic built into it. If you try to get the result with less than 200W tube it will tell you that you need to choose at least 200W to cut steel.

[Matt Turner (physics)]

FWIW, Kern also says that they can cut metal with just nitrogen assist. (They do use Synrad lasers for some of their machines.) A key point may be that these are RF lasers, not glass tube. From what I understand, the RF lasers can get higher peak powers than glass tubes of the same nominal power, because they pulse the output instead of just staying on.

[Dave Spitzer]

Anyone interested in cutting metals with a Co2 lasermay want to do more research; this link may help answer many questions: https://www.mitsubishi-world.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1050&Itemid=1842

Because of cost it may not be feasible for most.

Also zoning regulations in some areas may prohibit the use and storage of high pressure gas bottles.

Dave

[Dan Hintz]

That's a decent high-level article, David. Here's an appropriate quote from the middle section:

There are benefits and drawbacks to using oxygen instead of nitrogen and air. First, oxygen requires a much lower flow and pressure than nitrogen, meaning the consumption—and ultimately the costs—are lower. Also, at thicknesses of more than .08 inches, oxygen cuts faster.

Using oxygen as an assist gas also has its downsides—namely oxidation. The reaction from oxygen assist gas causes oxidation that can negatively affect surface quality, remove surface coatings and prevent the ability to paint finished workpieces. Oxide that is not cleaned off will chip away and cause surface corrosion. In general, the overall edge quality of workpieces cut with oxygen is inferior to that of workpieces cut with nitrogen.

Nitrogen provides a clean, precise cut without oxidation, since it doesn’t cause a reaction to increase heat and aid cutting, but rather serves only to remove the molten metal. Nitrogen is ideal for stainless steel and aluminum, and can cut mild steel much faster than oxygen when metal thicknesses are less than .08 inches (see figure 1). While nitrogen requires higher pressure and flow than oxygen when cutting thick metals, the amount of nitrogen required (and the pressure and flow) drops as metal thickness decreases.
In most situations, using nitrogen instead of oxygen comes with a much higher price tag. Also, except with very thin metals, nitrogen is the slowest assist gas. For this reason, it is typically only used for mild-steel cutting applications in which surface quality is extremely important.

Shop air can be a viable alternative in some applications, with the obvious bonus being that there are no direct consumption costs. The reaction air cutting causes creates plasma, an extremely effective heat conduit that allows the fastest speeds in mild-steel and aluminum laser cutting. While compressed air does leave behind oxide, it is less than straight oxygen; also, the edge quality of the resulting workpiece is not as high as with nitrogen.

While shop air can be cheap and effective for thinner metals (it works best with mild and stainless steel less than .06 inches thick and aluminum less than .08 inches thick) establishing a system that maintains proper air pressure and air filtration can be an obstacle for many manufacturers.
Of course, the article makes no mention of the power levels being used. I would imagine 200W of power would be the minimum starting point of cutting thicker metals (I can cut thick aluminum foil with my 60W if I pre-treat it), as the calculator shows, but notice the speed... 3ips isn't exactly a race to the finish, and that calculator also makes no note as to the finish quality.

[Dave Spitzer]

Dan,

I agree, I feel the bottom line (and I believe you mentioned earlier) is a person wanting to cut metals need's to do some research.

[Martin Boekers]

I guess depending upon the quality some are looking at, they may want to consider a plasma CNC

[Bert Kemp]

Sorry, Mike, I got your post confused with Daniel's request to purchase a new laser. In his case, purchasing a machine to cut metal would be a waste of money... in your case, you already have the machine, but it would be a waste of your time to try to cut metal using nitrogen.

As I said, Nitrogen is used as a shield gas, but the lasers they are using are measure in kiloWatts... in those cases, the laser itself is doing the cutting. In the prior scenario, the low-power laser (150W) is just heating the metal and the high-pressure oxygen is doing the actual cutting. Different machines, different processes, and you can't mix half of one process with half of another machine.
I'm sorry I didn't read all the post on this but if cutting metal is your primary concern I think a CNC plasma cutter is the way to go .

[John Minton]

Check very carefully !!! cutting metal with anything less than 500W is going to be a tough. I have a 1500W which I something run at 500 for thin metal With O2 or Nit but not much below.