If you could buy a new single head wide belt?

[Cody Armstrong]

Which brand would you want?

Hello everyone,
I've been researching and scouring the net for a couple weeks now, calling companies and dealers and have gotten a few quotes. I've looked at numerous used machines on auction sites.
I still feel almost as lost as I did when I started this quest of finding a wide belt. I really need your opinions and the facts on what are the higher quality machines and what YOU would want if you could buy a new one.
I've been told to not buy a used and also have been told to not buy a new machine. I really don't want the worry or the hassle of what problems could arise with buying used.
From what I've been told Costa is the cadillac but they don't build a small single head.
I'm looking for a 37" I'm a one man shop. I want something that will be reliable and accurate and will give me many years of service without problems. To give you an idea of where I'm at I started with Woodmaster drums moved up to Speedsander/Safety Speed/Oliver/Powermatic
I'll start with Houfek. Does anyone have experience or own one and what do you think about these machines? Or could someone list brands in a ascending/descending order of quality.
Any help or input will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Cody

[Jeff Duncan]

I have very limited experience with entry level machines, and only a little more with the big boys;) My first thought is any widebelt is better than no wide belt. I run a 43" Timesaver, (which I always thought was the Cadillac of sanders?), that was built in the late 70's and it still runs like a champ. However I know there will come a day when things start to go, and it's going to snowball into a money pit quickly. When these machines get to be a certain age and parts start to go....it can get expensive real quick:eek: So I understand the idea of avoiding used. However if you have the time and inclination you can sometimes do well with a late model machine at auction. I've seen a couple go around me for really short money.

So you've already indicated you want a single head.....a few other things you'll need to consider when shopping for a widebelt. Do you want/need a platen? A platen leaves a finer scratch pattern, but also adds to the cost of the machine. Some guys consider them a must, since my old tank doesn't have one, I guess I don't:p

How much HP do you need? If you sanding mostly to finer grits on wide pieces or multiples across the bed you'll need more power. In a small one man shop you have flexibility though and can feed slower or take lighter passes so it's not a must. Running coarser grits to flatten won't need quite as much juice.

As far as a list of brands I can't help you with that. I still think Timesaver would be a good machine to look at. I've used several over the years and they're just well made units. I also ran a really high end Italian machine for a while, (forget the name now), but that was a whole other level of sander anyway. SCM makes a decent machine and I'm sure there are plenty of others that would do just fine meeting the demands of a one man shop. Hopefully you'll get more brand specific feedback from the others.

good luck,
JeffD

[Cody Armstrong]

Hello Jeff and thanks for the reply.
Yes, I want a platen.
I'm running on a phase converter, I can handle a 20hp machine.

[David Kumm]

I've seen Houfek and they seem to be well made although a little lighter than the older Timesavers-AEM. There has been a very nice looking older AEM on Machine Central that I would have bought had a two head Sandya 5 not become available. Chris Peterson at Comprehensive Repair is a tech that is good about giving his opinion if you email him. There aren't that many non Asian small sanders anymore. Timesavers, Butfering are Asian but still very good small machines. SCMI makes several models. The 5 is the start of the heavier models. tracking system and ease of repair are the big issues according to the repair guys I talked to. Some models can have the feed belt changed in an hour, some it takes four. Nothing wrong with Asian machines, just not quite as refined a finish as some of the better Euro or older Timesavers-AEM. Timesavers and AEM were related companies and Timesavers took AEM over in the early 90s. Timesavers were green, AEM blue in the 80s and then they both went gray in the early 90s and then became one. They came in both 60 and 75" models. The 75 was a little heavier and had a few more features.. Sorry, I know more about used than new. Dave

[Cody Armstrong]

Hi Jeff and Thank You very much.
I've already been in contact with Chris and he was very helpful. The Timesaver sander at Machine Central is very nice and looks like it is exactly what I'm looking for. In fact after reading your post I called immediately. :)
It may be on it's way to my house very soon. :) :) :)
Once again Thank you,
Cody

[David Kumm]

Cody, I know the name of a repair guy in Denver who may be familiar with the Timesaver-AEM for sale by Andy there. Dave

[Cody Armstrong]

Any history on the machine would be nice to know. I only had a brief conversation and didn't catch the salesman's name. He said it came out of a mom and pop shop so I assume a single owner machine. I'll know more tomorrow when I get a call back.
Thanks David, sorry, I called you Jeff in the other post.

[David Kumm]

Peter Mulberger at The Pine Tree Group LLC is a tech who went over and looked at the two head AEM for me. Did a written report, found some problems that Andy corrected but by then I had found the Sandya. Pete didn't charge me although I asked him to. I would contact him. Even if he charges it is worth it to have an experienced set of eyes look it over. If the drum or the feed belt needs work it is likely 500-1000 each so a couple hundred is good insurance. Dave

[Chris Rosenberger]

I used a 38" Woodmaster drum sander for 18 years. About 1 1/2 years ago I replaced the Woodmaster with a lightly used Safety Speed Cut wide belt sander. It is a very basic sander and it does an excellent job. I never want to go back to a drum sander.

http://www.safetyspeed.com/products_sanders_75series.htm

[Cody Armstrong]

Peter Mulberger at The Pine Tree Group LLC is a tech who went over and looked at the two head AEM for me. Did a written report, found some problems that Andy corrected but by then I had found the Sandya. Pete didn't charge me although I asked him to. I would contact him. Even if he charges it is worth it to have an experienced set of eyes look it over. If the drum or the feed belt needs work it is likely 500-1000 each so a couple hundred is good insurance. Dave
Advice taken! I can't begin to thank you enough for the information. It has helped tremendously, if not found me a sander. I'll keep you updated. Thank you, and thank you Sawmill Creek Forum.

[Cody Armstrong]

I used a 38" Woodmaster drum sander for 18 years. About 1 1/2 years ago I replaced the Woodmaster with a lightly used Safety Speed Cut wide belt sander. It is a very basic sander and it does an excellent job. I never want to go back to a drum sander.

http://www.safetyspeed.com/products_sanders_75series.htm
Thanks for the link Chris,
I looked at the Safety Speed pretty hard for awhile but my gut was telling me to go with another brand. I'll name no names but a little bird told me to stay away from them. I didn't ask why.

[David Kumm]

Thanks for the link Chris,
I looked at the Safety Speed pretty hard for awhile but my gut was telling me to go with another brand. I'll name no names but a little bird told me to stay away from them. I didn't ask why.

I'll add that I was advised against Halsty, and Sandingmaster in used machines. Sandingmaster is now owned by Timesavers and built in the Netherlands so it may just be tougher to find parts for. Dave

[Jim Andrew]

There is a Grizzly on the Wichita craigslist, looks like it was in a one man shop.

[J.R. Rutter]

I'll add that I was advised against Halsty, and Sandingmaster in used machines. Sandingmaster is now owned by Timesavers and built in the Netherlands so it may just be tougher to find parts for. Dave

And Halsty = Safety Speed Cut.

After thinking about it some more, I will add $0.02 on why I went with a Euro sander: space. With the motor tucked underneath, the footprint is as small as possible. Multishift machines are built to make service fast and easy, which is great if you have a lot of floor space. I would be tripping over an outboard motor in my shop though.

[Rick Fisher]

I have a small SCM wide belt which is run off a phase converter and have spent some time obsessing about the ideal machine.. lol

To me the top dawg of 37" wide belt sanders is the Kundig. The reason is that the table stays stationary, and the entire head moves up and down .. meaning your not fighting outfeed and infeed rollers on larger projects because the height stays the same no matter the thickness.

The Kundig is often labelled Holzher in North America. I would probably buy a used one because they are one of the more expensive, but Euro made and high quality..


I can give you my 2 cents on wide belts.. Mine is a 25" wide SCM with a 12hp motor. If it had an 8 hp or 9hp motor, it would make no difference at all. 37" wide machines are often between 15hp and 20hp in single belt. I would choose 15hp over 20hp for my use. Wide Belt sanders use a pile of power, but they are shipped to the USA and Canada with much bigger motors than in Europe. In my case, I never use all 12hp .. most of the time I don't use 1/3 of the power my machine has.

Electronic table movement with a stepper or increment feature would be a must for me ..

Automatic table height measurement would nice, but I have found I got a feel for my machine and it means much less than it did when I started. Having said that, a mistake is often a blown belt..

Dust collection is not as bad as I thought it was going to be, but its no simple task. I have my sander connected to a 4hp Felder RL-160 with about 15 feet of 6" pipe.. It collects all the dust from Oak or maple.. On Afromosia, its about 60-40.. On teak its a mess ..

I started with a drum sander and also would not want to go back .. Drum sanders are awesome but a major step below a wide belt with a platen. IMO a wide belt without a platen is basically a fancy drum sander.

[David Kumm]

Rick, I had looked for a Kundig as well but found the single head used cost about what i paid for a two head SCMI 5 so went that route. The Kundig Brilliant series with the head that can be set at an angle is a sweet machine. I believe Butfering makes an SGO series with the constant pass line too. Some Butfering are now Asian but I think the SGO is Euro. Maybe someone knows for sure. The old AEM and Timesavers that were made here were very heavy. The single head weighed about what the two heads weigh today until you get to the real industrial high HP models. Houfek looked very well built to me and is still owned by the guy who either started the company or is the second generation. It isn't as very as the old AEM but about the same as the newer Euro. Asian machines tend to be heavier than euro as the Euros have learned to cut weight and the Asians still use heavier steel and castings but lack some refinement. If you compare sliding table saws between Europe and China you will see the difference although the Chinese are closing the gap. Biesse owns the factory in China that makes most of the sliders and their models are getting quite nice. I digress. Dave

[Mark Wooden]

Thanks for the link Chris,
I looked at the Safety Speed pretty hard for awhile but my gut was telling me to go with another brand. I'll name no names but a little bird told me to stay away from them. I didn't ask why.

Halsty ( now Safety Speed Cut) was making a simple wide blt sand that could be serviced with common hardware parts. No bells or whistles and you could(maybe can) get them with a 15hp single phase motor. The are a great machine for a small shop that doesn't run it 4 hours a day every day. I used to sand veneer panels in it regularly with the platen.
The downside to them is that being a simple machine, they can wear out if not maintained well. If you need to thickness stock or sand thousands of feet a week or want to sand lots of doors flat (instead of building them flat;)), look to the Timesaver or an SCMI. However, be aware that the sensitve electronics in some of them require a very well balanced RPC. A friend had to buy a used Ramco because a newer SCM just wouldn't run on his RPC

[Scott T Smith]

Cody, I own a 37" 25hp EMC (sold and serviced by Laguna) that has a platen. It's primary use is sanding resawn veneer in order to remove the kerf marks left by the band. I bought it used, and have had zero problems with it. There are weeks when the sander has been in use for 8 hours a day, 5 days in a row.

I would get as much HP as you can, and also if you do really thin sanding you will need a dust collection system with a lot of suction.

Mine is powered by either a generator of 30 hp phase converter. Sometimes when starting it cold off of the converter I have to hit the start button twice. The first time will spit it up almost to working speed before the timer kicks out. If I hit the button a second time before the machine has a chance to slow all of the way down, it will speed up to operating speed and after that everything is fine.

I considered some of the Grizzly machines before I bought my EMC. Their demo machines at IWF left a very nice finish, and the price was great. My only concern was that their HP was lower than I wanted. However the EMC was priced right and it's been a great acquisition.

Timesaver's machines have an outstanding reputation and many of the old furniture plants in the Carolina's used them. I don't think that you'll go wrong with one if you can find a good used one.

There seem to be multiple suppliers of wide belts; I use Klingspor and have been extraordinarily pleased with them. One good addition to extend the life of your sanding belts is the "belt cleaner" that Grizzly sells. Here is a link to it: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Pro-Stik-15-x-20-Cleaning-Pad/D3003

Scott

[David Kumm]

Machine Central has an EMC as well so talk about both to the tech guy for his take. I think EMC is Bulgarian but not sure. Dave

[Cody Armstrong]

Wow. Everyone thanks alot. Ya'll are giving me alot of great information. Keep it coming :) I'll take all I can get. This will be my first widebelt to own and to use for that matter.
I assume the dust collection/blower I have is big enough. It has a 12" impeller with a 3PH motor that I believe is 5Hp. The name plate on the motor is inaccessible. It is currently in use on a 24" planer, the blower was thrown in with it when I bought it.

What has spurred me on to getting a widebelt is for running endgrain hardwood cutting board/butcher block material. A local cabinet shop has run a few for me but when they get busy they have a business to run and don't have time.
The AEM 501-37 I'm looking at has a 6" fluted rubber contact drum with 1 1/2" platen. I know little about these machines. From what I understand the 6" drum or larger is ideal for this application but not sure about the platen being only 1 1/2"
Of course I'll be using the sander for other things from thick table tops to possibly shop made veneer. Does a narrower platen just mean you have to take more passes? Any thoughts on this? Specifically the endgrain application. I know there are application specific sanders or one could be custom built to suit a customers needs. I guess my question is will this machine do what I want it to do. I've got a good idea that it will. I will have to learn how to use it correctly. I certainly don't want a process specific sander.
Or should I go in another direction with another machine?

[David Kumm]

Cody, the the motor is 5 hp the impeller should be 14-15". If so it will work with the sander but you might want to upgrade the bags to handle the fine dust. The 6" contact drum is about as big as what comes with a combo head. Wider is better in the platen area but there are also different types of platens and coverings. Again, get advice from a tech guy about what you need. There difference between 1.5 and 2" platen isn't a deal breaker. Many guys run with the drum only to level and platen only to finish and some run both the drum and platen together. Sanders with 9-11" drum are usually multi head with either a combo or platen only final head. The first head is often a steel drum in that case. If the table is manual raise and lower you want to ask if it has a pro scale digital readout or plan on installing it yourself. Not a big deal. You just don't want to get greedy and take too much off and use the final grits lightly. Final caveat- I'm only a few months ahead of you on the learning curve. Did the homework and talked to anyone who would listen a few months ago so don't think I'm the final word here. Dave

[Scott T Smith]

Machine Central has an EMC as well so talk about both to the tech guy for his take. I think EMC is Bulgarian but not sure. Dave

My EMC is the Pioneer model and it was made in Italy.

[Scott T Smith]

It has a 12" impeller with a 3PH motor that I believe is 5Hp.


The AEM 501-37 I'm looking at has a 6" fluted rubber contact drum with 1 1/2" platen. I know little about these machines. From what I understand the 6" drum or larger is ideal for this application but not sure about the platen being only 1 1/2"



The platen in my EMC is also 1-1/2" wide, and I recall that the fluted rubber drum is around 6" - 8" in diameter. I've found my machine to be extremely versatile, but I defer to the pro cabinet makers advice...

5 hp should be adequate, but the problem that you'll face will be the fines clogging up your filters / bags. They are so small that they don't always drop down into the drum. As the bags get clogged, suction goes down and you start having dust accumulating in the sander.

[David Kumm]

My EMC is the Pioneer model and it was made in Italy.

Thanks for straightening me out. I get confused as to where Laguna gets their stuff. Dave

[Cody Armstrong]

Just wanted to give a thanks to everyone that has contributed to this thread. I pulled the trigger, it should be on it's way soon.
Kudos to Sawmill Creek Forum. A wealth of knowledge and info around here. Hopefully someone else that is having trouble choosing a wide belt will find this thread helpful. Perhaps a moderator could change the name to something more easily searchable like "Wide Belt Sander Advice" or "Choosing A Wide Belt Sander"
A special thanks goes to David Kumm for the mention of the sander that was available. :cool:

250615

[Cody Armstrong]

Hello folks, advice/opinions would be appreciated here.

About 5 months ago I bought the above machine. The sander had two platens that came with it and both where lost during shipment.
One was a felt platen and the other an air platen. From what I gather the platens were left on the conveyor feedbelt until they fell off somewhere during the 1000 mile transit. I know this because I talked to the previous owner about this sitiuation whom told me he would make the "salesman" pay for the platen/s. Both of the platens where supposed to be put into the cab of the truck. Why one wasn't in the machine I don't know.

While I'm not worried about the air platen I do need the felt platen. A $600.00 part from Timesavers. I've been back and forth with the salesman on this for months with promises that he will take care of it.
He is also saying it's not his responsibility. Of course the trucking company is not doing anything about it. Nothing has been done hence why I'm posting this. I would not be posting any of this had this been taken care of.

Let me back up a bit and mention that I specifically asked for a machine with a 6" dia. contact drum in good condition and stressed this to the salesman numerous times.(I think I mentioned that I wanted a 6" drum in this thread)
He assured me it was a 6" drum in excellent condition. The machine was sold to me as "Machine is guaranteed to be in excellent working condition."
When I recevied the machine it had wear on the drum and to top it off it had a 4" contact drum. It had some other minor problems not worth mentioning. Overall the machine is in excellent condition but I had been decieved on some things.

Shortly after recieving the machine I asked the advice of an expert and was told the 4" drum would be fine for what I'm doing but the drum would need to be dressed. He also said I should ask for a refund for what it costs for materials to dress the drum.
I dressed the drum by glueing sandpaper too a piece of aluminum plate. I'm not interested in a refund for the materials. I have been using the sander without a platen. A platen that I need.

I'm posting this because I'm at my whits end here and this is where I learned about this machine. I don't want this thread to be closed because of defamatory comments.
I really need the advice from others that may be in this business or have been in this situation.

Am I wrong to think it is the sellers responsibility for this? Who is responsible? What would YOU do?

Thanks,
Cody

[peter gagliardi]

If it was sold and described as having platen/s, then it is the responsibility of the seller to make good on it, period. So this was a used machinery dealer, correct? And they wonder why they have such a bad reputation, and people are willing to take their chances with private sales or auctions. It seems to me, that if you have any paperwork or electronic data supporting what was to be included, you might try upping the pressure- serve them with court papers for an unfulfilled contract . Seems you are entitled to your parts, or the money to get the parts.
As an aside, we bought an SCMI 37" new in 1997 , after about 5 years the graphite went on the platen. Didn't have a source , or knowledge or time to fix- its now 2013! While it is said the scratch pattern is finer with platen, it may not hold true in practice. 180 grit paper does not know it is supposed to leave a better finish with the platen vs the drum. I fretted over this, for only a moment, then I just went up one grit for finish- problem solved. I will say that the platen helps out a little if your stock stops and starts like it does on our SCMI machine, because the belt is to hard to grab and pull the work thru properly! It also helps marginally with snipe issues.
Belts do last longer on drum only machines vs platens, because there is less contact area which equals less heat buildup which is the main reason they stop working- rarely does the grit stop cutting.
Peter

[Jeff Duncan]

I agree that you should get what you paid for! Since you paid for 2 platens you should receive 2, and whoever you bought the machine from needs to provide them! I'm not always a fan of getting lawyers involved, but if the salesman continues to blow you off a properly worded letter from an attorney can sometimes help.

I'm surprised the contact drum is so small? On my machine it's something like 8", a 4" is really tiny! Then again of it works....? I don't have a platen on my machine and the finish is pretty good. You can barely see some ripples in the surface of certain woods like maple, meaning everything has to be hit by an ROS before finishing.....but it's not a problem for me. If I were to buy a new machine I'd probably want one with a platen though. Save me from having to sand flat stock and stuff that's preferable not to ROS afterwards;)

good luck,
JeffD

[J.R. Rutter]

How did the transaction work? Did Machine Central have the sander in their possession? If so, it is on them to provide the platens. If they just brokered the deal and it shipped directly from the owner, then it is hard to hold MC accountable. Unfortunately, it is also difficult to get any leverage on the previous owner if it was their fault. At the very least, the whoever paid the trucking company should be filing a claim with them.

[David Kumm]

Cody, I'm sorry I mentioned that sander. As i recall it was a consignment and not in dealer's possession but someone is liable for bad preparation. I would contact either Pete Mulberger at Pinetree LLc or Chris Peterson at Comprehensive Repair about a new platen. When I was looking at a sander in Denver I had Peter give me a written condition report. Worth the money spent. The Timesavers combo heads at that time were generally 4". A straight calibrating head will usually be a larger diameter than a combo head. If dressed it shouldn't affect the operation. When I am looking at used machines I go to Exfactory and Vintage machinery and check out the literature. Will usually tell you more than a salesman. Hope it sorts out. Those were nice sanders. Sounds like there are three players there and none are taking responsibility. Dave

[Cody Armstrong]

To answer all the above posts:

The salesman was shooting me a line from every angle. Originally he told me the machine was in his shop. I mentioned getting someone from Pinetree group to assess the machine. I was told it was not necessary because "his" tech had been through the machine. I even told him that if there was anything wrong to have it fixed and add it to the price of the machine. Keep in mind this was over several phone calls before I purchased this. After stressing to him that the drum had to be 6" and in excellent condition
he told me he went to look at it to make sure and everything was in good condition and the drum was 6". That turned out to be lie. He never looked at the sander. He even admitted he didn't. Turns out it was not his and was in storage and owned by someone else. So yes it was brokered.

David. Don't be sorry. What goes around comes around. Chris Peterson has been my saving grace in all this and I owe him big time. I learned alot about my machine in a short period of time with Chris's expertise and guidance.

J.R. if you are right about the accountability during a brokered deal I guess I'll find out. I've given the guy a week from today to get this situation taken care of.

Thank you all for your support. I'll update if/when I can.

Cheers, Cody

[Rick Fisher]

Who paid the trucking ..

Did they sell it to you FOB your shop ? Or delivered.. Did you pay the trucker ?

Its the truckers responsibility to ensure everything that is loaded on his truck arrives at the destination. Having said that, if you didn't pay him, your claim is with whomever did. Their claim is with him.

So if you bought it FOB Your shop.. Your claim is with the seller.. If you paid the trucker, your claim is with the trucker..

Nice sander.. Sorry your having a hassle.. You learn more about sellers once you have a problem like this.

[Cody Armstrong]

Who paid the trucking ..

Did they sell it to you FOB your shop ? Or delivered.. Did you pay the trucker ?

Its the truckers responsibility to ensure everything that is loaded on his truck arrives at the destination. Having said that, if you didn't pay him, your claim is with whomever did. Their claim is with him.

So if you bought it FOB Your shop.. Your claim is with the seller.. If you paid the trucker, your claim is with the trucker..

Nice sander.. Sorry your having a hassle.. You learn more about sellers once you have a problem like this.

The seller(Machine Central) paid for and arranged the shipping. The thing is there is no mention on the bill of lading of platens. Only a sander.
The seller was not on site when the sander was loaded. The previous owner was there during loading and said it was a big rush to get it done.
Seems to me the seller should have been there to make sure everything was loaded and taken care of correctly.

[Kevin Jenness]

About 5 years ago the shop I work at was looking to replace our aging Sandingmaster 37" single head machine. After looking at new Timesaver, SCMI and Butfering models, we decided to go with a remanufactured Sandingmaster from Woodshop Specialties in Rutland, VT. Mike Shahan used to sell these machines before Timesavers acquired them, can source parts, and is known to be a meticulous machine tech in our area. The Sandingmaster is stoutly built and simple- the tracking and braking are all pneumatic, and the electronics are minimal. One feature that sold us is that the infeed and outfeed rollers can be locked relative to the contact drum (this is used for veneer sanding with the platen), and used as reference points to true up the drum in case of damage. On most machines, if you score the rubber contact roller, you have to pull it and send it out for machining. It has worked out well for us, no regrets.

[Cody Armstrong]

Guys. Certainly not trying to be rude and thank you for the advice but if you read the thread you would see that I've already bought the sander mentioned above.
The thread has progressed from me looking for a sander to buying a sander(January) And now to me dealing with the incompetence/deceitfulness of a salesman and trucking company.:(

[Jeff Duncan]

So the "salesman" (who no doubt received a commission on your purchase), didn't do anything he claimed? He did not see the machine, did not have a tech check it, and really had no hand in the transaction except that you found it through his listing? I would think that in itself should entitle you to a refund of part, if not all of his commission on the sander? Considering his commission was likely 10% or higher, it's probably worth chasing after in additional to being compensated for the missing platens. If you have any friends in the legal business I think it's certainly worth looking into. Again, sometimes a knowledgeable laywer can give you much better advice then a group of strangers on an WW forum:rolleyes:

good luck,
jeffD

[Mark Bolton]

I agree with Jeff here, I would be pursuing this until I was as whole as I felt I could get. I personally dont see how the shipping company has any culpability here. If the shipper did something stupid like lay the platens on the belt and they bounced off going down the road thats not the trucking companies responsibility. If a shipper ships a crated pallet and bolts start falling through the pallet and bouncing around the floor of the truck its not the drivers responsibility to gather up all these bolts rolling around the in his trailer and try to "guess" which crate they fell out of. If the platens wound up on the floor of the truck or the dock they could have wound up on any number of crates in the vicinity or in the dumpster. Its whoever packed/shipped the machines fault.

Beyond that it would seem you have serious leverage against your salesman. One would hope some of this transaction transpired via email but who knows.

I have had problems with a couple machines and been thankful the salesman has gone above and beyond making things right. Its sad you may have to get a little heavy handed, but I wouldnt hesitate to get my two platens as you seem like your willing to live with a machine that wasnt delivered as specified (4" vs. 6" drum).

Don't be too nice about this is my advice.

[Cody Armstrong]

So the "salesman" (who no doubt received a commission on your purchase), didn't do anything he claimed? He did not see the machine, did not have a tech check it, and really had no hand in the transaction except that you found it through his listing? I would think that in itself should entitle you to a refund of part, if not all of his commission on the sander? Considering his commission was likely 10% or higher, it's probably worth chasing after in additional to being compensated for the missing platens. If you have any friends in the legal business I think it's certainly worth looking into. Again, sometimes a knowledgeable laywer can give you much better advice then a group of strangers on an WW forum:rolleyes:

good luck,
jeffD

Machine Central bought the sander for $4000.00. Sold it to me for $8000.00. I figure 500-1000 for shipping. Out of state sale=no tax. You do the math!;)

The previous owner told me the price that was paid.

[David Kumm]

Cody. it keeps getting worse. The machine had been bought by the dealer but kept at the original sellers or where? I know when I asked about the machine it wasn't located with the machines in the possession of the dealer. He told me he didn't have it in his possession. I saw that machine on several dealer sites- which is fairly common. Does sound to me like the dealer should make you whole and figure out who is liable to him. Problem with a $600 claim is it's not worth spending much money on. Lawyers who are good aren't cheap and the platens were used so although like new you wouldn't get a claim for the full price of new. I've bought lots of old machines and although most transactions went well every once in a while I find I didn't ask a specific question I should have or gotten something in writing and didn't and paid the price. Maybe you should send this thread over to him and ask how long he wants it to go on. Dave

[Cody Armstrong]

Cody. it keeps getting worse. The machine had been bought by the dealer but kept at the original sellers or where? I know when I asked about the machine it wasn't located with the machines in the possession of the dealer. He told me he didn't have it in his possession. I saw that machine on several dealer sites- which is fairly common. Does sound to me like the dealer should make you whole and figure out who is liable to him. Problem with a $600 claim is it's not worth spending much money on. Lawyers who are good aren't cheap and the platens were used so although like new you wouldn't get a claim for the full price of new. I've bought lots of old machines and although most transactions went well every once in a while I find I didn't ask a specific question I should have or gotten something in writing and didn't and paid the price. Maybe you should send this thread over to him and ask how long he wants it to go on. Dave

David. The owner(R.L.Woodworks) had the machine in storage. Andy, the salesman, originally told me it was his machine (in his possession) and had it listed on his website. I didn't find out until after I paid him in full that the sander was in Boulder.
No money exchanged hands between Andy and R.L. Woodworks until I paid for it.

I saw the machine on another site as you say. I actually called them to ask about it and was told it wasn't available. After they told me that I called Andy and asked him what was up with that and he said they where using his pics. That's when he told me it was his machine and in his shop. I guess these tool salesman use the pics as filler on their websites or just to get people to call and ask about them and then try to sell another machine. That's what happened to me when I called them because they tried like hell to sell me a different sander. Andy still has my machine listed for sale on his site. Yet it is sitting in my shop.

Here's a listing of my machine on the other site I called. In the description it says it has a 6" contact drum also, which it doesn't.
http://www.globalmachineryco.com/AEM-501-37-WIDE-BELT-SANDER-SW-1230.htm

[David Kumm]

I see the same machines on different dealers sites all the time so there must be a fraternity there. Other than the platen thing does the sander look as good as it does in the pictures. I remember when I was looking that it was as good looking an older machine as I saw. Is the conveyor and head in good shape? The 4" isn't what was represented but if in good condition will work just fine. Head and conveyor repair gets really expensive. Double infeed and outfeed rollers are kind of rare and a good deal too. I know it has been a pain but it should be a really good sander. Dave

[Cody Armstrong]

Overall it is in excellent condition. The contact drum had some wear contrary to the description but I've since dressed it and the conveyor.
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[Cody Armstrong]

Hey folks,

I recieved a platen for this machine.
Andy @ Machine Central did finally come through with this. Albeit 7 months later. He paid for a new platen from Timesavers.

This is just a follow-up for this thread. Updating as I said I would.
Thank you again for everyone's help.
Cody :)