First New Plane

[Alan Wright]

Hi all... I am in the process of building a dresser or of QSWO (Stickley replica). It's a large dresser with 9 drawers. 6 of the drawers are 30" across. I've go the carcass and drawers built and am in the process of haning the drawers. In the past when I've built smaller drawers, I've been able to get away with sanding to get the proper reveal on the drawers. However, I recall seeing Norm using a small plane to true up drawers as the final detail. This seems like the "proper" way of doing this. My carcas is prety square, but not PERFECT, and I made my drawers slightly large so I have some material to take off.

I've never used a plane before, but no time like the present.....

Now to my question... What size plane do I need for a job like this? I am confidant that I can get whatever plane I purchase sharp. I've had great results with my scary sharp system. Can I get what I need at a Borg, or do I need to go a Lee Valley type outfit? I really like to get it today and get started, but If I need to order it and wait, I will. Thanks Alan

[Stanley Covington]

Alan:

Anything you get at a big box retailer will be junk you will regret buying. If there is a Woodcraft store in your area, or some other store that sells high end hand tools, they might have something that will work in stock.

If that is not possible, and you need something that will work right out of the box, ordering a Lie-Nielson or Lee Valley/Veritas product is the way to go. If it was my money, I would recommend the Lie-Nielson No. 6 Fore Plane. The 5-1/2 is shorter and perhaps handier, but the price of the No. 5-1/2 and No.6 are the same and the extra length is very useful for precise planing. The No.5 jack plane is the plane usually recommended as a first purchase, but if you are precision shaving drawer sides, the wider blades of the 5-1/2 or No.6 are an advantage.

Don't mess around with wooden bodied planes yet.

Stan

[Brian Kent]

Not a borg. When I got a real plane I would not even sell the Buck Brothers Plane-Shaped-Objects at a garage sale. I tossed them.

You have three choices: a small block plane, useful on any project, a smooth plane for finishing surfaces, or a jack plane for sizing.
I would recommend anything by Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen, a refurbished old Stanley plane by somebody on the creek who knows what they are doing, or Mujingfang planes - the only low cost planes I have ever found that I use alongside premium planes.

[David Weaver]

You might be able to get by with something as simple as a low angle block plane if you'll only be trimming edges and ends with it. LN and LV both have good offerings that. A bench plane would be fine, too.

[Chris Griggs]

I'd recommend you buy this (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=49708&cat=1,41182,52515) and this (http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1461).... then watch this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F7q5WGb4ZA&list=PL5BE69422F61CEE64) and this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfX7T6qRut0&list=PL5BE69422F61CEE64)....

This will be about as painless as a start as you will get.

[Alan Wright]

OMG I went to Lie Nielson to get the #6 fore plane like Stanley suggested. It's $375 and it doesn't come with a motor. Guys the stereo-type that you hand tool guys are just too cheap to buy tools with motors is off base huh! I know... You get what you pay for!

David, a low angle block plane for $139 is looking like a much better option. Just looking on the Lie Neilson site to find the Fore plane is a trip. Who knew there were that many types of planes out there. I actually have a couple planes in my junk drawer that I got god knows where. They're all rusted and I have no Idea what type they are. Guess I ought to take them out and see what they heck they are.

For now, I like the idea of a new plane that is going to work for the job I have. I have over 100 hours into this dresser and this isn't the time to screw it up.

Thanks for the help. Alan

[Jim Koepke]

Alan,

Your profile doesn't list your location. If you are near me, we can set up a meeting for you to try different planes to see what works best for you. If there is time, we can also look at the planes you have to see if they are worth restoration.

You also may live near another member willing to let you take a test drive with their planes.

My planes only include about 4 that were bought new. Three LNs and one Stanley from about the 1980s.

If you can, post a few pictures of your old planes it might be possible to identify what you have.

The plane for this job all depends on how much wood you need to remove and personal preference. If you just need to trim the top and bottoms of the sides, a block plane would likely fill the bill. If you need to remove wood from the sides a bench plane such as a #4 or #5 might be better. There are a lot of other planes that may actually do the job better depending on your own style of work, hand size and strength. Wider planes take more muscle power.

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

I'd get a low angle block plane from LV or LN. I'm partial to the ones without adjustable mouths (I have both the Veritas Apron plane and the LN102). Remember that when buying LN and Veritas, if you treat them well, you'll be able to resell them for very close to NEW retail. So, if you decide the small blocks are too small or the big ones are too big, you can resell.

In fact - and I won't say this is official policy - if you order something from Lee Valley that you don't LOVE, and it's in perfect condition, they will often take it back; that's how good they are.

[Jim Koepke]

Guys the stereo-type that you hand tool guys are just too cheap to buy tools with motors is off base huh!

It is not so much the cost of the motor as the cost of the electricity to run it… :eek:

jtk

[Alan Wright]

Jim, Thanks for the offer, but I'm in Syracuse NY. Pashun, good points! I really don't mind buying a good quality tool for a specific need, then having it forever, but almost $400 for a plane! I had no idea they were that expensive. I can see the $139 for the Lee Valley. I'm gonna go for that one and see if I develop a need for more / better. Alan

[Dave Parkis]

Hi Alan, if you're going to be near Albany (Colonie) any time soon, you are welcome to stop by my shop and test drive some planes. I also sell. That said, the LV low angle block plane with adjustable mouth is an outstanding plane. Goof Luck!!

[Mike Cogswell]

Jim, Thanks for the offer, but I'm in Syracuse NY. Pashun, good points! I really don't mind buying a good quality tool for a specific need, then having it forever, but almost $400 for a plane! I had no idea they were that expensive. I can see the $139 for the Lee Valley. I'm gonna go for that one and see if I develop a need for more / better. Alan

Well, if you can get to Rochester you can check out the woodriver planes (http://www.woodcraft.com/category/1001037/planes--spokeshaves.aspx) at the Woodcraft store.

I have a lot of planes, about 60, half of which are wood. Of the other half I have a mixture of Veritas (Lee Valley), Lie-Nielsen and Woodriver with a couple of miscellaneous thrown in. The LV and LN planes are top notch in every way and I have nothing but praise for them, but I wouldn't ignore the Woodriver ones. The current production (V3) ones are excellent planes at a much lower price point.

[Bill Brush]

If I may, let me give you the flip side of hand tools as I see it. The LV, and LN planes are the equivalent of the Rolls Royce of hand planes. The die-hard galoots around here have the skills to tell the difference and apparently the pocket books to pay for them.

I do not, on either account. But I do have the willingness to take something old, put some time into it, and return it to usable condition.

My plane collection is pretty much whatever has run across my path that was cheap enough for me to buy and they do just fine. Patience is a great substitute for high-end tools.

To give you an example, I have a #8 Jointer plane that I got for free from my grandfather's estate. This is probably my best quality plane. It says "Bailey" on it. I use it because I don't have several hundred dollars for a jointer.

I have a couple #4 smoothers, one Stanley Handyman, and one Hercules. Cheap planes in their day, I picked them up for less than $30 apiece. They both work acceptably after extensive fettling.

I have a #5 jack that's a Miller's Falls that I picked up for $20. It's a workhorse and sees a lot of time.

The key thing IMO about hand planes is that they don't take a big bite, so the amount of damage you can do at once is fairly controlled.

My advice is to get out your old planes and spend some time rather than money to bring them up to working condition. The Chris Schwartz handplane book is awesome for giving you the info you need to make them work right.

A rule of thumb I learned recently that may be pertinent for you if you are taking material off the sides of your drawer fronts is that a plane can straighten a piece of wood about double its length, so you'll want something in the 12"+ length for those. More skilled craftsmen can stretch that, but that's not me.

[Alan Wright]

Fantastic info. Thanks to all! I spent an hour looking, but I found these two planes in my shop. I have no idea where they came from, I just have them. Never used em. I've attached a couple pics. Both apear to be the same size. The one on the left says stanley and other than some rust, it seems to be on good shape. The other one just says made in USA on it. I cant find model numers or any other info on them Does anyone know anthing abouth them? I'll clean them up and sharpen the blades if they are worth anything, If not, I guess I'm going to have to buy one. Thanks Alan 250146250147

[Greg Wease]

The Stanley plane may be a #18--a good choice to learn about plane fettling and worth the effort. The other one has a broken cap--usable but less convenient.

[Alan Wright]

greg, I goodled it and I think you are right. However, it looks like there is supposed to be a lever on the back that is missing. I would guess it us not really usable without that lever....

[Alan Wright]

?? I'm not sure what fettling is but i'll google it. hopefully is in't porn related...

[steven c newman]

Here is some cleaned up and ready to go (mine, sorry)....250149250150250151any look like yours???

[Bill Brush]

?? I'm not sure what fettling is but i'll google it. hopefully is in't porn related...

Fettling is the process of adjusting a plane. :-)

[Jim Koepke]

?? I'm not sure what fettling is but i'll google it. hopefully is in't porn related...

Here is a post on fettling:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114373-Fettling-A-Plane-from-Junker-to-Jointer

In the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs there are a few posts on fettling or rehabilitating old planes. It is one of the "Sticky" posts at the top of the Neanderthal Haven conference.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

Bob Smalser wrote a great post on rehabilitating block planes:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?60970-Block-Plane-Selection-and-Rehabilitation

Both LN and LV make high quality tools in North America. Their costs reflect what goes into making their wares without going out of business. My fortune is having more time than money. That means I have bought planes for less than $20 that can make shavings just as well as one of the newer planes. The new planes may have better machining tolerances, a few nice features and better steel in the blades but at the end of the day, no one can tell which plane you used to smooth the wood or make the shavings.

There are tool dealers selling old planes that do not expect an arm and a leg for you to have a decent plane.

I haven't been following prices lately, but that is one thing one should do before going out looking for used planes. It is also a good idea to learn a bit about what's what about the different changes made to the Stanley line over the years. My knowledge of other makers planes is very limited. Some folks like to keep their plane accumulation down to a narrow range of years. Mine is all over the place. Except for a few outliers, my planes are all Stanley planes. Some folks will mix makes because that is what they can find in their area of the size they are looking for at the time.

jtk

[Greg Wease]

Yeah, it's missing the lateral lever and the eccentric lever up front to assist in opening/closing the mouth but you can get by without them for now. They're easy enough parts to find.

Think of fettling as "putting your plane in fine fettle"--does that help?

[Chris Griggs]

I think those of us who posted early on that you should get high end planes did so because it seemed like you wanted something to put straight to work and didn't have the experience to know how to get an old plane up and running all that quickly. Old stanley's, miller falls, sargents, and others work wonderully. I think the majority of us here probably regularly use vintage tools in additions to LN and LV planes.

If your willing to take a bit of time and go through the learning curve of setting up an old plane there are some dealers who sell high quality old planes, that should require not too much fettling, and are reasonably priced.

Check out these 3 tool dealers... Joshua Clark (aka hyperkitten) (http://hyperkitten.com/tools/ForSale/Tools_FS.php), Walt (I forget his last name (http://www.brasscityrecords.com/toolworks/new%20tools.html)) and Sanford Moss (http://sydnassloot.com/tools.htm)

There are others as well that sell pretty much only good user tools, but those 3 tend to have the best prices. If they don't have anything listed that interests you call them or shoot them and email and they will surely have something they can dig out for you.

Of course, if you decided to go new the LV Low angle block is and excellent choice.

[Stanley Covington]

Obviously, you don't have much experience with planes. There is a learning curve to plane proficiency, and that curve will not be a steady improvement curve unless you are confident the tool you are learning on is set up right. Used planes are fun, but unless you have the time to learn to set it up properly, as well as the time for the trial and error inherent in the process, or someone to guide you, they are a pain in the butt and will retard your skills. Now if you are a tool freak, and just love the fiddly stuff involve in tuning old tools, then used planes are great. But if you need something that will work right now, and that will serve to aid you in becoming proficient in adjusting, sharpening and using planes, the used ones are counter productive.

$375 is a lot of money if you will only use the tool for this one project and then leave it to rust in a box. But if you intend to pursue a woodworking hobby long term, then it is cheap. Remember, every single electrical tool you own now, or ever will own, will end up in the garbage no matter how carefully you use and maintain it. Not so a L-N Fore plane which will be around for your grandkids to use.

A block plane will never replace a bench plane, it is only more convenient. You can do good work without a block plane, but you cannot do good work with just a block plane. The idea of a block plane as suitable for shaving drawers of any width is not worth considering. Perhaps you would be better off buying a nice belt sander.