Felder Planer Knives -- Regular or HSS?

[Charles Brown]

My Felder system knives are about all used up and I'm ready to buy a batch of new blades. Seeing as they are double-sided and only come in packs of six each purchase lasts me for quite some time. Does anyone have any experience with the HSS knives they offer? (the HS-M42 model) Are they a better steel than the regular knives? Do they last the longer duration that they claim? Are they worth the up charge to anyone? I've been perfectly happy with the regular knives but wonder if I'm missing anything.

Thoughts?

[Mel Fulks]

Depends on what the ones you have been using actually are. If they describe them only as "high speed", I would try the
M42. That is a good grade ,and you might notice less tearout . I know M2 and T1 leave a better surface than the cheaper knives, but have not used M42. If you decide to try them ,please let us know what you think of them.

[Chris Fournier]

The European manufacturers typically put the cheapest knives in their machines from the factory. In that case the M42 will be a significant step up. If they have good knives from the factory, then M42 won't be a step backwards. I buy Tersa M42 for my SCM equipment. Carbide would be nice but $700.00 per set is not an option. The M42 perform very well and represent good value in my shop.

[Rick Fisher]

Yeah, I have M42 Tersa knives on my Griggio Jointer, I really have no idea if they last longer or are better but they are supposed to do both. lol ..

In Tersa, the cost is not that much different .. not sure about Felder brand.

[ian maybury]

I've just switched to a set on my A3 410 Hammer, but it's early days. The view on the Felder Owners Group forum is that they are a very significant step up in terms of blade life - whatever that means. The sentiment is certainly strong.

We get M42 bandsaw blades over here, they certainly are much longer lasting (as in x possibly several times?) than carbon steel....

ian

[Mel Fulks]

I would like to see the companies mention surface quality more and "blade life " less. Once the knives get a bunch of nicks in them most change them out, even if they are still sharp overall. Grit is not deterred by knife quality, and most commercial shops that I've been in have at least one guy who doesn't take reasonable care to avoid it...or staples.And
runs everything on the slowest speed,causing more damage.

[Todd Burch]

I have a 20" Felder combo machine and I've been buying the 6-pack set. I think $140 last time I bought. Is this the cheap set? With clean wood, seems they last a decent enough life, but any kind of paint, dirt or dust, and they quickly (very quickly) dull to the point that the audible difference when jointing or planing is significant.

Todd

[Jamie Buxton]

For the Hammer jointer-planer, which I suspect has the same choices as the Felder, there are two kinds of knives. They are both HSS. (High Speed Steel is actually a whole family of steels. The members have different characteristics and different costs.) Hammer calls the less expensive Chrome, and the more expensive one Cobalt. (Those are the primary alloying elements that make each one HSS.) The Cobalt one is called M42 in the US. I've tried both kinds in my machine. In nice woods that mill without chipping the knives, the M42 does last enough longer to justify the price. In nastier woods, where the end-of-life indicator for the knives is chipping, you'd actually get better life per dollar with the cheaper knives. (Examples of species which chip the knives are knotty alder, and hard maple with those darn little black mineral inclusions.)

[Mel Fulks]

What I was referring to in mentioning "surface quality" is being able to cut difficult grain without tearout,not striatitions
caused by grit. The cheaper steels commonly ,and incorrectly ,referred to as "high speed" are not high speed. There is a technical definition but,unfortunately,not a legal one. Rockwell hardness of cheap stuff can be the same as the HS but that does not make it cut the same. IF one is concerned about tear out,I do not agree that the inferior knives are ever a wise purchase.

[David Kumm]

I believe the Felder knives are really Esta and can be purchased through Esta or other vendors- probably for less. Dave

[Charles Brown]

I have a 20" Felder combo machine and I've been buying the 6-pack set. I think $140 last time I bought. Is this the cheap set? With clean wood, seems they last a decent enough life, but any kind of paint, dirt or dust, and they quickly (very quickly) dull to the point that the audible difference when jointing or planing is significant.

Todd

I have a CF 731 P and the six pack of knives is about $70 for the regular steel and about $140 for the cobalt steel. I was quite pleased with the quality of cut from the regular blades. Most of my stuff goes to a handplane or through a widebelt sander to remove mill marks after the planing process.

Ian--I think I will try the M42 blades for the planer. Ultimately all I'm looking for is an increase in the life of the edge. I rarely use highly figured or problematic woods and stick to the domestic kinds--cherry, walnut, poplar, maple, etc.

David, I'll call Esta today and ask them. The price isn't deterring me so much as the lack of knowledge.

[Chris Fournier]

What I was referring to in mentioning "surface quality" is being able to cut difficult grain without tearout,not striatitions
caused by grit. The cheaper steels commonly ,and incorrectly ,referred to as "high speed" are not high speed. There is a technical definition but,unfortunately,not a legal one. Rockwell hardness of cheap stuff can be the same as the HS but that does not make it cut the same. IF one is concerned about tear out,I do not agree that the inferior knives are ever a wise purchase.

A knife manufacturer can only really guarnatee materials and manufacturing methods/tolerances. Surface quality as you are defining it has a lot, if not everything to do with the machine operator's technique/ability and how sharp he deems acceptable for surfacing/profiling. Also define "difficult grain". There is no generally accepted "difficult grain" scale - curly maple can be a difficult grain but not for the same reasons that, 1 & 2 common pine, purpleheart or ebony are as well. Woodworkers must gain their own experience with different tool steels and then make informed decisions for their various applications.

As an example, tungsten carbide is pretty much at the top of the cutting tool heap for dealing with difficult grain per se but I would choose fresh M42 over fresh carbide to get the best surface finish on curly maple. I would however choose tungsten carbide to machine teak as M42 would wear too quickly.