Which to get: new Grizzly G0690 or used Rockwell Unisaw or used Powermatic 66?

[Randall Cherry]

Hi All,

I am in the market for my first cabinet saw. I am looking at 3HP, 220V models. This will be the second major piece of equipment for my nascent home wood shop (the first being a DeWalt compound miter saw).

I've hear good things about the Grizzly saw. But, I am wondering if I should go for a used version of one of the tried and true classics like the Unisaw or PM 66, in good condition. The cost for a Unisaw or PM 66 would be within a few $100's of a new Grizzly if I am patient and keep my eye on Craigslist.

Thanks for any input.

--Randall

[Cary Falk]

Randall,
There is nothing wrong with a Uni or a PM66 except they don't have a riving knife and the Uni dust collection sucks in a bad way. I sold my 1970 Uni and bought a new G1023RL(new model with a riving knife) and couldn't be happier. I know many people will chime in and say that Grizzly is crap and a splitter will do everything a riving knife will do. Having had both I say that there isn't any difference between the 2 quality wise and a riving knive is so much nicer. You definitely can't tell which projects I made on the Grizzly or the Uni. Get what makes you happy. You can't go wrong with any of the choices.
Cary

[Brian Ross]

Randall,
There is nothing wrong with a Uni or a PM66 except they don't have a riving knife and the Uni dust collection sucks in a bad way. I sold my 1970 Uni and bought a new G1023RL(new model with a riving knife) and couldn't be happier. I know many people will chime in and say that Grizzly is crap and a splitter will do everything a riving knife will do. Having had both I say that there isn't any difference between the 2 quality wise and a riving knive is so much nicer. You definitely can't tell which projects I made on the Grizzly or the Uni. Get what makes you happy. You can't go wrong with any of the choices.
Cary
Excellent answer, the quality is there for all three.

Brian

[Jim Andrew]

If you go used whether the Uni or the 66, get a shark guard and use the splitters included with it. Much better than the factory guards, plus you get overhead dust collection. I have a '04 Uni, but would be happy with any of the 3 saws.

[Jim Foster]

+1 on riving knife and dust collection. Not sure how the Grizzly handles dust collection, but getting these two important features working on the older saws might be time consuming, expensive or both. I have an older PM66 (circa 1994) and I need to add a shark guard and spend a good bit of time and money (I suspect) getting the dust collection collecting.

[Steve Kohn]

+1 on riving knife and dust collection. Not sure how the Grizzly handles dust collection, but getting these two important features working on the older saws might be time consuming, expensive or both. I have an older PM66 (circa 1994) and I need to add a shark guard and spend a good bit of time and money (I suspect) getting the dust collection collecting.

I also have a PM66, I believe its from the late 80's. Dust collection is poor to non-existant.

[Rich Riddle]

Faced with the exact situation you are debating, last year I purchased a used Unisaw and am extremely happy with the decision. Here are thoughts associated with the process.

Unisaw parts are abundant and will likely outlast your lifetime. Prices prove reasonable for parts. Many Unisaw machines are right-tilt models, so know that going into the process since many woodworkers don't like right-tilt models. Some left-tilt models exist. My Unisaw uses a splitter and doesn't have a riving knife; safety advances are a good thing.

I rebuilt a Powermatic 143 last year and am in the process of rebuilding a 141. Powermatic parts are not overly abundant and prices prove higher than Delta prices. I have been looking for a part for the Powermatic 141 for two years and might just repair a damaged component. That said, The Powermatic 143 works flawlessly 50 years after manufacture and it came out of a production environment. With OWWM Powermatic, you get what you pay for.

The Grizzly tempted me but I doubt any modern saw will be working 50 years from now with few exceptions (expensive units). People say that Grizzly customer service proves stellar. A new Grizzly does have the modern advances. The biggest detractor from the Grizzly was being upside down in it if it encountered problems. Would repairing it cost more than the saw was worth? What was the resale value?

I went with the old Unisaw and have absolutely no regrets and would be inclined to tell others to do the same. The only caution I have for you is that you must have some mechanical skills to properly maintain older machines, but the same holds true for newer ones as well. Good luck with your new or used saw.

[Chris Fournier]

A well used Delta or Powermatic would get my vote. Dust collection is what you make it and a riving knife is a shop made accessory.

[Pete Janke]

Very happy owner of a G0691. The removable riving knife works great. Access to the motor compartment is easy with the access door located on the left side of the saw (much easier than my old 22124). I retrofitted a SawStop blade guard for over the table dust collection.

[Chris Rosenberger]

About 3 years ago I would have said to go with the used Unisaw or PM66. But after getting and using a table saw with a riving knife, I say get the G0691 or any other good saw with a riving knife.

[Jim Foster]

Note: A riving Knife is not necessarily a shop made accessory. Many old saws do not have any means of connecting a true riving knife. The Saw Shark on one of these old tools is a splitter type safety device, but not a riving knife.

[john lawson]

+1 for any saw with a riving knife.

This is so important that it should be your first priority and the deciding factor. If you ever find out you need a riving knife I hope it is just a close call

just my $0.02

[Sam Layton]

Randall,

I am sure all three saws will serve you well. With out a doubt, I would go with a Powermatic 66. You can find a 66 on Craig's List in almost new condition. I don't know about the Grizzly, but the Powermatic is much heaver than the Unisaw. Which do you like, Ford or Chev??? I have a 66, and think it is a great saw.

As for as dust collection, I enlarged the 4" dust collection hole in the cabinet, to about 4" X 8" X 6" with a 6" duct going to the saw. Works great. I also have an overhead guard with a 3" duct. It also works very good. I have a removable splitter that is also very good. The only thing the 66 does not have is the riving knife. I have never used a saw with a riving knife, so I can not comment on it. However, my splitter works well.

I can not comment on the Grizzly, but you can not go wrong with the Unisaw or Powermatic. As you say, tried and true. However, I hear good things about Grizzly, so it sounds like you have a win-win situation. Any of the three will work just fine. Just make sure you get a left tilt saw.

Sam

[Milind Patil]

I have G0690 for close to 3 years and I can vouch it is absolutely awsome saw. Very accurate, very beefy and at 500+lb, it is as heavy as any other saw in its class. I will be more than happy to entertain creekers living in Houston area who wants to stop by and take a look at it before buying.
Let me list the "goods" and "not so goods" about this saw (sorry, there is no bad here :-)

The Good:

1) Great accuracy. My table top is flat within less than 5 thou. But Many other G0690 owners have reported better flatness. I think 5 thou over 40" is crazy good for woodworking.

2) Massive fence. Very beefy. And very accurate. With a dial indicator you can set in with within 0 thou

3) Plenty of power from a 3HP Leeson motor.

4) Massive trunion. Again very beefy.

5) Extremely stable saw. No vibration. Will pass any nickel, dime, penny test.

6) Very well designed riving knife. It is extremely easy and fast to take it off and put it back.

7) Magnetic switch. But this really is a standard feature on all cabinet style saws. So no biggie !

8) 30" rip capacity which is enough for most jobs. I shifted my fence towards right and added another 7 inches to it. It is very easy to do. Almost all my rip work is on the right, so don't care about loosing left side capacity.

9) Excellent service from Grizzly (they got a life time customer in me. I now buy my tools only from Grizzly if I don't find them on CraigsList). My saw originally came with warped table top (it was 15 thou). They sent a new one right away, no question asked. The old one is now lying in my garage and I do not know what to do with it. Sometimes I use it as clamping pressure ! it's an 80lb cast iron after all, don't want to throw in garbage !)

Overall you will feel very safe to work on this saw with the power, stability and riving knife. Is there anything else you are looking in a table saw ?

Now the "Not so good"

1) The dust collection is not so good. it could have been better if there was a dust shroud around the trunion. I highly encourage you to consider saws with dust shroud if at all you are up for buying a brand new saw. I also believe that if no dust shroud, then at least the dust port on the cabinet should placed high close to the blade (source of dust), instead of placing it on the bottom.

2) The supplied mitre guage is average at the best. But this may be standard issue with all table saws.

3) The supplied blade guard is average at the best. I discarded it and bought SharkGuard with the dust collection and love it. Yes, at $130 it is kinda pricey, but worth every penny ! Most of the hazardous dust comes from the top. I highly recommend to anyone. Actually, if you have time and enthu, you can build one yourself. Look for plans on internet. In fact I personally think that all saw makers should stop supplying those mediocre quality mitre guages and blade guards and instead, take them off the price. Let the consumers buy after market quality products or build their own (or the sawmakers should supply quality products as accessorries).

4) The supplied power cord is only 6 ft long which I think is ridiculous. But again, a heavy guage extension cord is not that pricey. But still....it raised my blood temperature by a fraction of a degree :-)

5) The 90 degree and 45 degree stop nuts are very difficult to access. Agreed you don't have to mess with them very often, but still they could have be designed little better.

6) it does not come with built-in coffee maker or iPod dock. That could be a big no-no for some :-)

With all that said, the G0690 is dream machine and none of the "not-so-good" items will take away the joy of using it. And currently it is on sale.

And yes, one more thing before concluding. Please DO NOT compare any table saw with SawStop. SawStop is a completely different category of its own with ZERO competition. And although I never planned to buy it (nor have any plan in future), in my humble opinion, it is worth it's price.

[Randall Cherry]

Everyone - Thanks for all the great input! The comments in favor of either option are very helpful.

[Jeff Duncan]

I would go for a Powermatic 66 first as I think it's the best in it's class. It's probably going to cost you about the same as a new Grizzly though. Second up would be the Unisaw, good quality saws that will do just about everything you need. One of these can ideally cost roughly half or a little more than what the Grizzly runs for. Of course prices for used machines vary wildly so hard to really give any accurate valuations. I'd go with the Grizzly last as I'm just not a fan of the light Asian imports....just personal preference though.

Oh and one thing you may want to look deeper into if your looking at the Unisaw. My understanding is that Delta is no longer supporting the older saws, so finding parts like the often changed arbors for instance, may get and more and more difficult over time? I haven't looked into it any further, but I'll have to soon as the bearings in mine have passed their prime;)

good luck,
JeffD

[Doug Richardson]

Own a G0651 and I have to agree with Milind in every respect. I really think it all depends on whether you want new or used. All are excellent saws.....

[David Kumm]

I'd buy Zayd's PM 66 in a heartbeat, even if it had to be shipped. Dave

[Rick Moyer]

Own a G0651 and I have to agree with Milind in every respect. I really think it all depends on whether you want new or used. All are excellent saws.....
Agree also, except I have the G0691, and I don't agree that a dust shroud is necessarily better although I don't know that having never used a saw with one. I would not want a port high up under the table because anything getting by would just accumulate in the bottom of the cabinet. I have mine connected to a cyclone and only get some sawdust in the corners with a modified 6" lower dust port.
But, everything else stated in Milind's post I agree with very much.

I thought I wanted a PM 66, but eventually decided a riving knife was more important than I originally felt. I had no problem then choosing Grizzly as I'm close enough to go look at their stuff before purchasing. Have been very happy with this saw (and Shark Guard). If money were not a concern then maybe I would have bought a SawStop, but that's another conversation.

[Jim O'Dell]

I won't post long here, just did in another TS new/used thread here. The line about the 691 in my signature says it all. If something happened to it and I needed to replace it, I wouldn't hesitate to get another one. I helped a fellow Creeker set up his 1023R series saw a little over a year ago and can attest to it's quality as well, but the 691 is still the right one for me. I also had an issue with my saw when received, the extension table was bruised hard on one corner. Grizzly was great to work with on correcting it, and even agreed to send me some casters instead of a new extension table top. I made a longer extension, to fit with moving the rails to the right, and cut a bevel to match the front of the cast iron table. Pleased me to no end!! Jim.

[keith micinski]

I will be the odd man out and say I wouldn't even consider getting an older UNI or 66. I hear about how this saw will outlast my life ( why do you care your dead) and then I hear about how hard or easy it is to get parts. If it will outlast you then why do you need to get parts for it? Everything needs maintained and worn parts replaced over time depending on how much it was used and how well it was cared for. You will know neither of these facts about a used saw on craigslist. Also as far as the "Lightweight Asian" saws go all three weigh around 500-550. I am not sure how an extra 50 pounds or 10 percent should be a deciding factor in buying a saw. The table saw is the key to your entire woodworking shop and tuning up someone else's worn out saw that was supposed to "last them a lifetime" and still ending up with a saw that doesn't have good dust collection, doesn't have a riving knife, which is a big deal by the way, doesn't have a serpentine belt, and doesn't have a warranty or consistent factory support. By the way you can get a 3hp Leeson or Marathon and maybe even a Baldor for about 350 bucks. If your motor goes out on you ten years form now and you have to replace it with a superior motor your probably in the same boat or better then the 1970's unisaw that you had to do the same thing to a year after you bought it. I always hear about trunions and how thick they are. Do a search for saws needing trunions replaced and see what you come up with. The only statement I agree with against a grizzly is that you are going to take a loss on it buying it new. I like buying good old tools in big part because you can usually sell them for what you paid for. That having been said if you get a used uni or 66 your probably going to be ok and get a pretty good saw. I just wouldn't go that way.

[keith micinski]

After writing all of that I just happened to look in the classifieds and I was wrong about one thing. There is a 66 in there that I would absolutely buy :D

[David Kumm]

After writing all of that I just happened to look in the classifieds and I was wrong about one thing. There is a 66 in there that I would absolutely buy :D

Keith, if Zayd hasn't sold the saw yet it isn't because we aren't talking about it. Dave

[keith micinski]

I really feel like an ass because I like that saw so much, I was just trying to figure out some reason on why I needed a second cabinet saw.

[Greg Peterson]

The basic design of the cabinet saw is pretty mature. So the difference between saws is going to be based on quality. How much quality one requires is obviously a personal choice. After all, everyone eventually brushes up against the point of diminishing returns. IMO, I would not own a saw that does not have a riving knife and DC. The PM66 is an industrial grade saw. If you plan on running the saw for 8-12 hours a day, then the PM66 is a good choice. I prefer the safety features of the riving knife and DC (yes, DC is a safety feature) over production grade tooling.

[David Kumm]

I really feel like an ass because I like that saw so much, I was just trying to figure out some reason on why I needed a second cabinet saw.

I run a Rockwell 12 as a second saw . The guilt will go away. Dave

[Jeff Duncan]

I really feel like an ass because I like that saw so much, I was just trying to figure out some reason on why I needed a second cabinet saw.

Your problem is not finding a reason for a second saw....it's thinking that you need a reason for a second saw:D

My problem......not having the space for a third saw! But that will only hold me back for so long. Too much good used equipment out there to hold out for very long:eek:


JeffD who's both growing, and buying, older and older;)