PM15 with Byrd shelix or PM15S and DW735?

[Mark Ashmeade]

I have a Powermatic 15S which I bought used when I upgraded from a RIDGID R4330 (having sold the lunchbox to fund the PM).

If the truth be told, I am a little underawed by the finish of the PM, and occasional roller marks.

I'm now considering putting a Byrd Shelix in the PM, and I'm sure I can adjust the roller pressure to minimize the marks.

BUT, for the same money, more or less, I could have a DW735 as well as the PM, and keep the stock spiral cutterhead in it.

I guess it comes down to: will the Byrd in the PM give me as good or better finish than the 735? I don't do a vast amount of planing, but when I do, I would like it to be perfect.

One other consideration is noise. The RIDGID was an order of magnitude louder than the PM. Is the 735 in the same ballpark?

[Bobby O'Neal]

The DW735 is not in the same ball park. It is waaaay loud. I'd say its 150% as loud as the Ridgid. No db numbers to support that, just my personal take. It's a screamer, for sure.

[Paul McGaha]

Hi Mark,

I don't have any experience with the Dewalt.

I have a Powermatic 15HH. I got it in 2009. I upgraded from a Ridgid TP1300 bench top planer. I'm satisfied with the quality of cut it gives. I'd say it comes out of the planer about equal to a sanding grit of at least 100.

I'm not sure where you're located but maybe a test drive of a Powermatic 15HH or similar planer would be helpful to you. I live in Ashburn, VA, a suburb of Washington DC, if you live near me you can check mine out.

PHM

[keith micinski]

I hated that crappy spiral head on the 15s and ended up selling the whole thing I think part of the reason of having a nice 15 inch planer is to not have to mess with a lunch box anymore. Get the byrd head or even a grizzly head which is what I upgraded to when I got rid of the 15s. A second machine to make space for, to keep tuned up, to keep maintained doesnt seem like an advantage to me. By the way I had a 735 before I got the 15s. Now that I think about it my suggestion is sell the 15s and then get a G0453px and you will probably be money ahead and steal have a really good machine.

[Bruce Page]

I have to agree with you Mark. My PM15 doesn’t leave as smooth a finish as my old Delta 12” screamer but it sure removes a lot of material a lot faster. The difference in sound alone makes it worthwhile to me. I always run everything through my drum sander for final dimensioning.

[Jim Foster]

I have the PM 15 with the Byrd Shelix head. It's great in terms of tearout, I have not seen any in all the Q-Sawn and Rift-Sawn Oak I've planed. The only time I get roller marks is when I take to thin of a pass. The Byrd Shelix head does leave minute scallops that need to be planed or sanded out.

[Cary Falk]

My Delta 22-580 lunchbox gave a glass like finish and you could make ever so slight cuts without infeed or outfeed marks. My Grizzly %0452Z with a spiral head leaves a pretty good finish but definitely needs hit with a ROS. It is bigger, quiter, and will take a lot of material off when needed. I have adjusted the feed marks out. I wouldn't go back to a lunchbox. A planer is not finishing machine. Cary

[Mark Ashmeade]

Thanks guys. Two things are becoming clear:

1. A Shelix isn't the Nirvana I had hoped it would be. If it still leaves marks that have to be sanded out, then it doesn't justify the cost to me on a quality basis, given the small amount of planing I do. It may save money in the long run by being able to turn the inserts, but it would likely take me several years to realize any monetary benefit.

2. Lunchboxes give better quality cuts, but may still need a hit with a sander. I do have a Jet 22-44, but I find changing grits a PITA, so I like to keep 150 or 220 in it and use it for finish sanding.

It looks like the 735 for me. I still have a pair of pretty good ear defenders from my time in the Army, so that's the way I think this is headed. Space isn't a terribly limiting factor, although I would prefer to have just one planer. It's more about quality than cost or space for me. If I can get in the ballpark on the PM as is, then a nice smooth "finish" pass on the 735 and finally through the 22-44 then that's probably as good as I can get. I could always mitigate the extra space requirement by mounting the DW on top of the PM.

[Clay Fails]

I recently bought the 15HH after using the DW735 for 3 years. Here are my impressions:
1) the finish from the Byrd cutters is superior in my opinion to the 735 knives. I have not seen the scalloping described by others.
2) i have not seen any roller marks from the 15HH
3) the 735 is very loud, as reportrd, but I wear hearing protection at all times with all machines, so for me that was not an issue
4) having to lock the spindles on the 15HH is a bit of a hassle; the self locking 735 is superior in this regard.
5) For quickly hogging off material, the 15HH is a beast. No comparison to the 735.
6) snipe is an issue for both machines, maybe a bit worse on the 15HH. In fact, that is one of my biggest disappointments with the 15Hh. If anyone has a suggestion for me, I'm all ears.

Is the 15HH worth the $? After just q few weeks using it, I'm not sure....

[Mark Ashmeade]

That's interesting Clay.

I wonder if it's a matter of adjustment on the PM to either get or not get the marks?

If I thought the Byrd head in the 15S (effectively making it a 15HH) would give me as good results as the 735, then it would be a no brainer. As Keith said, one machine to look after.

I'm getting differing opinions on how good the finish is though.

I have $800 in the PM, and a Byrd can be had for right around $600 from Grizzly before 1 Jan. I can get a 735X from Amazon for $512. Cost is equitable, but what's the end result going to look like?

[Cary Falk]

Mark,
When I got the G0453Z it was set up for rough lumber. I had to move the table rollers even to the table and back off the infeed and outfeed roller pressure to eliminate the marks. Now the only time I get marks is if I take off a very thin amount where I don't remove the marks. If I reduce the infeed pressure any more It won't feed.
Both the Grizzly head in my planer and the Byrd head in my jointer will leave faint marks that you can see in the right light. I can't feel them. A quick pass with a ROS gets rid of them. The noise reduction and lack of knife changes of the segmented heads more than make up for the SMALL reduction of surface finish. I sand everything anyway. I would buy the head for the PM.
Cary

[Larry Frank]

I do not have the 15HH but do have a Jet 15" with standard blades and a DW735 with standard blades. While the cutter head of the 15HH is very different from my Jet, the rest of it is quite similar. I have found that with the 15" planer that I need to take a cut that is more than a certain amount to get the marks from the serrated roller to come off. I also find that I have a more difficult time get to the exact thickness.

The DW735 is noisy and there is no doubt. However, I can plane a board to almost exactly the thickness to +/- 0.005" on all my stock. I use the 15" to take heavy cuts and then finish up on the DW735. It works well for me.

I looked at the variety of cutting heads and would have liked to get the one like the 15HH. However, I sat down and calculated how much wood I would plane in a year and compared the costs. Unless I am going to plane a significant amount of wood or need it because I am going to plane wood with difficult grain, I could not even begin to justify the expense. In my case I am better off replacing the blades in my two planers in terms of cost.

All that being said, if I had lots of money I would purchase a 15HH.

[Mark Ashmeade]

Thanks Larry.

Well, one thing has occurred to me, and it's the defining factor for me. I don't know why it didn't occur to me before. But I'm glad it has.

... people put Shelix heads in their 735s for an upgrade! Given that the rest of a 735 pales into comparison with the PM15 (or Jet or Grizzly equivalents), then it's a done deal for me now.

I will be ordering the Shelix tomorrow.

[keith micinski]

Also the blades for the 735 cost a small fortune considering they don't last very long. Going away from the lunch box planer is going to benefit you in the long run and as far as the scallops some people say they get there are just as many people like me that don't get any at all. I took my time when I changed my cutters for the first time in a year of ownership and was nervous about it but I cleaned everything really well and didn't get any scallops this time either. Cut quality is more then good enough on a 15" planer. As far as the snipe goes one thing I found that made a huge difference was lowering the pressure on the infeed and outfeed rollers wel below what Grizzly even said to do and the added benefit was that it also eliminated any roller marks I was getting on light cuts.

[Gary Herrmann]

Have Byrd heads in my jointer and planer and am very happy with both.

[Mark Ashmeade]

Well I ordered the head today. We'll see!