Accurate cuts on a compound miter saw (CMS)

[jim gossage]

I am in the market for a compound miter saw and would like advice on type (slider vs glider vs fixed) and brand. The most important quality to me is repeatable accuracy so that I can precision cut rails, stiles, and mitered frames. For accurate cuts on boards wider than 10-12 inches, I will use a crosscut sled on my SawStop. I will also use the CMS to rough cut long lumber up to 8 or 10 inches wide and occasionally cut crown molding. Finally, I don’t have a lot of room behind the saw so a standard slider is out. From most reviews it seems like the Kapex is the best saw for what I want but at a premium price. Any other options that would meet my needs? Am I stupid to think I can get precision cuts on a CMS? Thanks.

[Mike Cutler]

No you're not off base thinking you can get accurate cuts from a miter saw.
I know of a custom frame maker that uses multiple Dewalt's for picture frames. However, multiple is the key. He has three of them, one set at 90, and the others at 45 degrees. The blades for each saw are almost $300.00. Once they are set, he does not move them. He cuts frame material that can cost serious bucks per inch.
He has multiple Lion trimmers, and many other tools, but he says the Dewalt's do 90% of his work.
It can be done, it's just up to you and how your work flow is laid out.

[John Meade]

Santa just brought me the Kapex for Christmas. So far it delivers as promised. Miter cuts are right on right out of the box. Bevel cuts were slightly off, but after a quick adjustment that is fixed. The mechanism's are all rock solid with no play what so ever. Note that arbor size and dust port are not standard sizes so be careful when buying blades and you will likely need an adapter to link the dust port to your DC. Also like all miter saws, it is light weight. I bolted mine to a solid homemade tool stand.

Like you, I use my saw stop with a sled to do many crosscut and miter operations. I use an incra sled that does the job. I also have an old Dewalt 12" miter saw for rough work and cutoff ops. The Dewalt is mounted to a workmate, so it is also my portable saw if I need to work outside the shop. If you are willing to pay the $$, the Kapex is the way to go for accuracy (although I pull out a hand saw once in a while to keep it real).

[John Piwaron]

I've been using a DeWalt DW712 for many years. I put a Forrest Chopmaster blade in it. I it have mounted in a recess in a "cut off" table. The saw has been accurate for me and with that blade gives me a glass smooth cut. Like you, I'm also using a sliding cut off jig on my Unisaw. For those "odd" angles some projects demand.

[Mark Ashmeade]

I have a Bosch GCM12SD that I am very happy with. It is accurate and half the price of the Kapex, but with greater capacity, it's done well for me. It also has the benefit of the narrow depth.

I prefer to use my RAS though for cut off and crosscut tasks. I don't cut many larger pieces (12/4 and up to 6x6), and either saw will do it, but I'd go for the RAS every time.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

No, you should DEMAND that your cms do a perfectly accurate job. If it's not, something is wrong.

Hitachi started making a great sliding saw 15 years ago or so, then Makita came out with the LS1013, which I still use. There are others now, but the bar has been set. Look at one of the them, then compare them to the modern saws.

My take, when my old Makita dies, it's 15 now, or 85 in SCMS years, I'll either buy another Makita, or a Kapex.

[Clark Harbaugh]

I have had the Hitachi 12" slider for about a year now, and its dead on. No complaints.

[Bryan Cramer]

I have had a 10" Makita for the last 7 years with no problems. I love that saw.

[jim gossage]

I have a Bosch GCM12SD that I am very happy with. It is accurate and half the price of the Kapex, but with greater capacity, it's done well for me. It also has the benefit of the narrow depth.

I like a lot of things about the Bosch, but I am a little disappointed that it does not come with a laser. How big a problem is that? Has anyone found a good third party laser to add on?

I have also heard good things about the Makita and Hitachi sliders. Do either of them have a decreased footprint behind the machine like the Kapex and Bosch? That will be key for me. Sounds like its possible to find an accurate CMS, which is also key for me. Thanks for all of the good advice so far.

[Gilles Renaud]

They have the laser option in their catalogue. work well

Thanks

Gilles

[Jim Andrew]

I have had very good service from my Makita tools as well as Hitachi. Both companies are imho first class tool makers. Have had other brands, Dewalt, Bosch,Milwaukee, the old Black and Decker commercial, but no way they can stand up to Makita.
I built houses for a living for 30 years, sometimes a skilsaw lasted one house, but when I got my first Makita, pretty well forgot about having a spare saw. Same thing about the Hitachi nail guns. Used to have my nail gun fixed once a week, then got a Hitachi. The thing went for years with just a little oil. The lumberyard fixed our guns for free as long as we bought them there. They were Senco. I still have some out in the garage. Wouldn't bother with trying to use one though.

[jim gossage]

I looked at the Makita and Hitachi 12" sliding CMS today and they seem to have the standard sliding configuration, which requires a lot of room behind the saw, and overall they are about 38-40" deep. I really need a saw that is no more than 30-32" deep, such as the Bosch or perhaps the Kapex. Are there any other 12" sliding CMS with a shallow footprint that anyone would recommend? thanks.

[scott spencer]

If accuracy is a primary objective, I'd look to a decent TS...they simply have more robust mechanisms holding the blade. Long pieces are the only time I choose my CMS over my TS.

[Alan Lightstone]

Use and love my Kapex, though most crosscut operations I do on my Sawstop also with a cutoff sled, or miters with an Incra sled. Just easier, and more accurate (though my Kapex has been bang on, FWIW).

Dust collection with the Kapex is good (though is not great with any CMS, unfortunately). It was pricey, but I'm very glad I got it. I mostly use it to cut down very long boards to length.

[Terry Therneau]

I would get an older Dewalt, one with the crank in the back like the MBF or G series, or a Delta of similar vintage. They are solid, dead on, and easy to find on Craigslist for $150 or so. Heck, get two and leave one at 45. Build them into a single table side by side. Their one disadvantage compared to a modern slider is weight, but I assume you aren't carrying it to a construction site.

[Mike Manders]

I really avoid using my CMS in the shop because I haven't found a good dust control solution. It sprays a huge cloud of dust and chips that covers everything within 10 feet. I much prefer the table saw + sled if I'm working accurately on small parts.

That said, it's great if I have a bunch of flooring to install or other construction work. I just drag it out onto the patio and aim the cloud at my neighbor's place ;-) If anyone has a good suggestion for controlling the mess on a big 12" sliding CMS it might see more use in the shop.

[Ole Anderson]

I have a Milwaukee 10", but if I need dead on accuracy, I go to my TS and a sled which I adjusted using the 5 cut method to get within a thou at 12 inches. I laughed when I first read that you can get that kind of accuracy. Just get a piece of plywood a little bigger than a foot square and trim, rotate and trim, repeat until you have rotated the board 4 times, then get a small offcut on your fifth cut. Use a caliper to measure each end of the offcut. Shim your back fence with a piece of a playing or business card and repeat until each end of the offcut is within 4/1000" and you have 1/1000" for a single cut on a 12" board. Don't be surprised if your 12" board ends up at 10 inches square by the time you dial it in. I don't see why you couldn't do the same on a slider or RAS using a different method of adjustment.

I hear you on the dust collection of a miter saw, mine is not quite so bad as I have a hood on it with dust collection, but, yea, it does spray stuff all over, but I would say I am catching 90-95% of the sawdust. I just installed 400 sf of Pergo in my basement and it was so nice to walk 25 feet to the TS with full dust collection for ripping and cross cutting that material.

[Erik Christensen]

only thing I would add is you mentioned crown molding... the kapex angle finder with the crown molding accessory makes it totally easy to cut perfect interior/exterior crown miters was a revelation to me - I could hang crown molding without a coping saw... YAH. I loaned the saw to a buddy who is NOT a craftsman.. after half a room of training I apprehensively left him to it.. he & his wife did the rest of their house and it looks dang good

[Greg Portland]

I am in the market for a compound miter saw and would like advice on type (slider vs glider vs fixed) and brand. The most important quality to me is repeatable accuracy so that I can precision cut rails, stiles, and mitered frames. For accurate cuts on boards wider than 10-12 inches, I will use a crosscut sled on my SawStop. I will also use the CMS to rough cut long lumber up to 8 or 10 inches wide and occasionally cut crown molding. Finally, I don’t have a lot of room behind the saw so a standard slider is out. From most reviews it seems like the Kapex is the best saw for what I want but at a premium price. Any other options that would meet my needs? Am I stupid to think I can get precision cuts on a CMS? Thanks.
Sure, you can get precision cuts. If you are not moving the saw around then I would strongly consider an industrial option like CTD, Omga, or Kalamazoo. These machines are incredibly accurate and beefy (real 3HP motors, a few hundred pounds of cast iron, etc.).

If you're looking for something portable (or < $1k), I would check out the latest Milwaukee CMS... IMO it's a big improvement over their older models (from 2 years ago).

[Greg Portland]

only thing I would add is you mentioned crown molding... the kapex angle finder with the crown molding accessory makes it totally easy to cut perfect interior/exterior crown miters was a revelation to me - I could hang crown molding without a coping saw... YAH. I loaned the saw to a buddy who is NOT a craftsman.. after half a room of training I apprehensively left him to it.. he & his wife did the rest of their house and it looks dang good
Does this operate differently than the Starrett ProSite?