Router Table Dust Collection

[Mike Goetzke]

I'm building a new router table/cabinet. I'm really looking for ideas for below the table DC. My previous cabinet was designed similar to Norm's. It worked pretty good but if you are producing lots of chips and the router was close to the table it would clog on occasion. Plus I always noticed some dust on the top of the router motor. When I was building cabinets for our kitchen I bought then sold a secondary table to speed up production. It was a Jessem with a built in lift and lift crank. Wish I took pictures but it had a shield/cup on the bottom that did as good or better job than the Norm type system and it caught the dust before it got to the router. Appreciate designs others have come up with.

Added: I should have mentioned my equipment: Milwaukee 5625-20 w/remote speed control, PRL-V2 (with or w/o sidewinder), Incra 27x43 phenolic table, WP Superfence, & CV1800 dust collector (and shop vacs).


Thanks,

Mike

[Bill Huber]

Mike, this is what I did with my table and it worked really well with the Bosch router, now that I have the big PC7518 it does not work as well for some reason, I think that the motor fan is just a lot more powerful in the PC then it was in the Bosch and blows more dust out of the port.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?65058-Different-Dust-Collection-for-router-cabinet

[John Piwaron]

Good luck.

I built a variation of Norm's router table last spring. A combination of my old table from a Woodsmith plan, Norm's and some of my own ideas. I use a PC 890 series router with the grip vac handle mounted under a plate. I also have my shop vac pulling dust from above via a port on the back of the fence.

The back of the router area is closed. The front is open. I did that because I attach my Festool vac to the grip vac handle.

Despite the 2 vacuums, there's still plenty of dust that escapes. some in the "chamber", most on top. Some just can't be captured. Never had a clog nor has anything broke in my router. Yet. :)

I have a couple of ideas I'll try for capturing the mess below the table but nothing's occurred to me for what to do about the above table stuff.

This is one of those times it seems that using a shop vac of any variety is simply not enough. Like the planer, it appears that dust and chip production is so fast and furious there's no way the vac is going to pull enough air to get a significant portion of it. I'm thinking dust collector and shroud inside the cabinet.

[john bateman]

This product gets decent reviews, though I think it may make bit changing more of a hassle: http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2005140/30464/keen-products-router-table-dust-collection-accessory.aspx

[John Piwaron]

This product gets decent reviews, though I think it may make bit changing more of a hassle: http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2005140/30464/keen-products-router-table-dust-collection-accessory.aspx

I was going to remark about potential difficulty with this device combined with a router lift. A check of the reviews show that this is indeed the case. OTOH, the reviews all say it works great at collecting dust and chips.

It's definitely pointing in the right direction.

[Mike Goetzke]

This product gets decent reviews, though I think it may make bit changing more of a hassle: http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2005140/30464/keen-products-router-table-dust-collection-accessory.aspx

Yeah - I saw that too, but, the challenges of above table bit changing worries me too.

Mike

[Ole Anderson]

I can't claim it as my own as I built in in 2005 from plans in the November 1998 Wood mag. It seems to be almost built around dust collection. I used the Freud router fence/dust collector on the table top (about $110), routed the 2.5" hose into the lower cabinet, using it a a plenum, with a 4" DC outlet at the bottom of the cabinet. I cut a 3/8" x 4" slot at the bottom of the cabinet after the pic was taken to allow the air inflow sweep the dust and chips to the 4" outlet. Works pretty darn good with my 2 hp SDG DC. I am using the Woodpecker plunge router lift with the big Hitachi M12V router. I have noticed that about 90% of the dust and chips generated are caught by the collector behind the fence as that is where the bit throws the chips, not downward toward the router. Just out of the pic, below the dust catcher shelf, is a pull out that holds a ton of 1/4" and 1/2" bits.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/CJ7ole/RT-open-done.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/CJ7ole/copesled.jpg

[Jim O'Dell]

Mike, this is what I did with my table and it worked really well with the Bosch router, now that I have the big PC7518 it does not work as well for some reason, I think that the motor fan is just a lot more powerful in the PC then it was in the Bosch and blows more dust out of the port.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?65058-Different-Dust-Collection-for-router-cabinet

Bill, I can't remember, did you build in an access hole at the bottom of your router chamber to allow air to flow into the bottom? Or are you trying to get all of the make up air from around the router bit? If you are the latter, I think you need some more air entering the box. I need to choke mine down some, but having fresh air entering the bottom will allow clean air to cool the router, and increase the air flow to carry the dust and chips out to the DC. Just don't want too much or it won't suck from around the router bit. Jim. (who might go out right now and choke my lower opening down for better above the table collection)

[Bill Huber]

Bill, I can't remember, did you build in an access hole at the bottom of your router chamber to allow air to flow into the bottom? Or are you trying to get all of the make up air from around the router bit? If you are the latter, I think you need some more air entering the box. I need to choke mine down some, but having fresh air entering the bottom will allow clean air to cool the router, and increase the air flow to carry the dust and chips out to the DC. Just don't want too much or it won't suck from around the router bit. Jim. (who might go out right now and choke my lower opening down for better above the table collection)

Yes I put a large hole in the back of the cabinet with a gate, if that is what you want to call it. I can open it up or stop it down to get more air from the top.

With the new PC7518 nothing I do is helping to keep the chips from going down into the lower part of the box. Most of it will go out but there is still a lot that goes down, I never had that problem with the Bosch installed.

[Steven Hsieh]

Yes I put a large hole in the back of the cabinet with a gate, if that is what you want to call it. I can open it up or stop it down to get more air from the top.

With the new PC7518 nothing I do is helping to keep the chips from going down into the lower part of the box. Most of it will go out but there is still a lot that goes down, I never had that problem with the Bosch installed.


What if you have more power dust collector? You said you are using regular shop vacum

[Bill Huber]

What if you have more power dust collector? You said you are using regular shop vacum

Well I am trying to come up with a way to install one in my shop, it is just a little shop (12x16) and I don't have a lot of room. When you get a table saw, a band saw, drill press, router table, drum sander and a 12' by 36" bench there is not much space left. I have even thought about building a little room type thing on the side of the shop just for a DC unit with say some 4" lines.

[Ole Anderson]

Let me elaborate a bit on my last post regarding collection at the fence. One thing that is common with ALL operations at the router table is that 100% of the bit that is cutting is above the table top. To try to suck all of the dust and chips down through the top of the table requires that you ask the chip or dust particle to turn 90 degrees down after being ejected by the bit on a plane parallel to and above the table. A bit which may be spinning as much as 24,000 rpm. Routing a groove is an exception as the chips are often packed into the just-routed groove and hopefully will fall down into the opening around the bit. For this reason, you really need to have a good collection system behind the fence if you hope to do a respectable job of dust collection with a router table setup. Hopefully you do not run your work between the bit and the fence as dust collection would be very difficult and the fully exposed bit is a hazard.

[glenn bradley]

Bill's offering is one of the slickest versions I have seen. If your DC was not clearing the cabinet, it could be starved for air or under-powered. Inadequate room arouind the bit at the throat plate can also cause this issue. If you had adequate airflow and still found spoil on top of the motor (I'm assuming you also collect at the fence when possible) I would go with Bill's version. It really focuses the pickup area. I just have a 4" at the lower cabinet exit point and plenty of air coming in right across from it in the door holes. This seems top do well for me. I do collect at the fence as well whenever possible.

[Ole Anderson]

I have even thought about building a little room type thing on the side of the shop just for a DC unit with say some 4" lines.

This what I did. I ended up capturing a space roughly 30"x36" at the base of my stairs, along with a small triangle at the corner of my shop and fit a 2 hp Oneida SDG. I ran a 7" main out of the closet.

[Mike Goetzke]

Mike, this is what I did with my table and it worked really well with the Bosch router, now that I have the big PC7518 it does not work as well for some reason, I think that the motor fan is just a lot more powerful in the PC then it was in the Bosch and blows more dust out of the port.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?65058-Different-Dust-Collection-for-router-cabinet


Bill - had some time this past week to finish up on my router cabinet design. I had many ideas on the under table dust collection but really like your idea. Only improvement I was thinking of but might be hard to implement is to provide the supply/fresh air at the opposite end from the exhaust and channel it at & across the bit opening (instead of around the router body). I have a Woodpeck lift so don't know if a partition will be easier or harder than your Jessem. Any thoughts?


Thanks,

Mike

[Bill Huber]

Bill - had some time this past week to finish up on my router cabinet design. I had many ideas on the under table dust collection but really like your idea. Only improvement I was thinking of but might be hard to implement is to provide the supply/fresh air at the opposite end from the exhaust and channel it at & across the bit opening (instead of around the router body). I have a Woodpeck lift so don't know if a partition will be easier or harder than your Jessem. Any thoughts?


Thanks,

Mike

Mike I am not sure I understand what you are saying.
I am in the planning stage of redoing mine do to the fact that the big PC 7518 is blowing a lot of stuff to the bottom of the router table. I am not sure just why it is doing it with the PC, the Bosch worked really well.

[Mike Goetzke]

Mike I am not sure I understand what you are saying.
I am in the planning stage of redoing mine do to the fact that the big PC 7518 is blowing a lot of stuff to the bottom of the router table. I am not sure just why it is doing it with the PC, the Bosch worked really well.

I'm thinking something like this (I edited your pic). The inlet could also be from the bottom but in front of the router:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/dust_zpsa25bdc58.jpg

[Brian Kent]

I have been very happy with my router table dust collection.

The bottom of the box is a V shape, with a 4" outlet on the back slope to the dust collector.

There is a 2-1/2" hose from the top back of the box that receives air and dust from the fence.
Air also comes into the box from the top of the table past the router and bit.

What you see in the picture is the most dust that remains inside the box. The box has a front door which cuts down on the noise, and there is plenty of flow through the fence and table top.

[Mike Goetzke]

Here is what I had on my last table:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Unisaw%20Sale/IMG_3597.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Unisaw%20Sale/IMG_3603.jpg


When I routed lots of pieces I would get the long stringy debris stuffed between the router plate and router - so looking to improve (eliminate)on that.

Mike

[Bill Huber]

I'm thinking something like this (I edited your pic). The inlet could also be from the bottom but in front of the router:


Ok, now I get it....

I went out last night and pulled the box out of the table and cut a hole in it like in your drawing. I am going to try and get it all back together today.

I am also moving the vac intake closer to the router.

[Mike Goetzke]

Ok, now I get it....

I went out last night and pulled the box out of the table and cut a hole in it like in your drawing. I am going to try and get it all back together today.

I am also moving the vac intake closer to the router.

Great - don't know if there is a difference but I will use a dust collector and you are using a vac. I think I need to make sure I don't restrict the inflow more than you?


Also, I almost bought one of these ports. They are $10+shipping from Jessem. Too restrictive for my DC but OK for a shop vac???:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/DSC04974-small_zps0dfc4deb.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/DSC06174-small_zps82070683.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/DSC06173-small_zpsb4065f56.jpg


Mike

[Bill Huber]

Mike, I like that one, never even knew they had it, I will look into it.

Thanks.

[ian maybury]

Hi Mike. The big issue on router tables seems to be that it's next to impossible to come up with a collection point layout that intercepts the dust in all cutting situations.

It seems a pity to waste airflow if you have a big dust system by pulling air through bleed holes. Mine has a spare hose on a swivelling elbow made from an 'o' ring sealed sewer pipe bend to have it available as a 'put it where you need it' collection point. It mounts using the clamp on bracket attached to the end panel. (from one of the accessory outfits) In practice it only gets used on the few jobs where collection is otherwise a problem - but since it's always open it doubles as an air bleed to prevent excessive suction/pull down of parts on to the router plate.

The metal fitting with the branch at the bottom exit from the dust chute is soldered up from pressed steel ducting fittings.

The 3/4 ply dust chute works perfectly (no dust is left behind), and the accurately flat top edges double as reinforcement (with the trolley frame) to keep the table flat in the area around the router plate.

Some photos of the set up (thanks to all here for the input):

It works very well on a Pentz/Clear Vue type dust system (great suction everywhere), but there are still cutting situations when the fence is a long way back from the cutter where normally very small amounts of chips escape being picked up ...

ian

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[Ole Anderson]

Except for dadoes, when is the cutter not at the fence? I'm telling ya, you need most of your suction at the back of the fence because that is where the bit throws the chips. Roundover, chamfer, miter lock, panel raising, rail and style, they are all at the fence. And you need to be careful, especially if you are using a low cfm shop vac vs a dust collector, and that is any air you are bleeding into your box just for cooling is air that is not collecting dust. Maybe I am not understanding the differences between routers as far as dust into the motor and cooling issues.

Ian, is the hose and hood pointing at the floor always open? I don't see a blast gate on it. If so it would seem that you are loosing a lot of cfm at the fence and down through the table.

[Alan Lightstone]

Bill:

I have dual 4" dust collection hoses to my router table with my PC 7518 (one on the Incra fence, and one below in the router box off to the side), and I really haven't had issues with it. I have an intentional gap on the bottom of the door to the router box, which draws in air and sends it to the DC. Now, to be fair, this is going to a 5HP Oneida DC, so there's quite a bit of oomph behind it, but it still has been working well with my PC 7518.

If anything I have more issues above the table with chips around the Incra fence than I do below, but I think both are minimal.

[ian maybury]

It's still early days on router tables for me Ole, but clearly dadoes are the classic case where not only does cutting end up well away from the fence but the dust is also thrown out through the slot to end up wherever.

I've just done a pair of sliding mounting blocks in laminated birch ply for a set of parallel bars for my sliding table saw which entailed cutting multiple deep slots off a 90deg sliding fixture - this also required cutting well away from the fence.

Not used it that way yet, but another situation where the cutter is away is when using a bearing guided cutter with a template to e.g. round over curved parts. The plan in that case is to connect the free 4in hose (after adding a lengthening section) to a table mounted dust pick up.

I actually bought a 100mm blast gate for the free hose thinking that i might need to reduce the flow through it at times, but so far in practice (bearing in mind that the dust system runs a 16in Clear Vue CV max impeller and both moves a lot of air and develops a lot of suction) it doesn't seem to be necessary. Even with it wide open there's still enough pressure/suction to deliver very good collection through the seemingly small bore Incra fence connection (it has actually worked very well so far, although i'd be the first to accept that a large diameter e.g. panel raising bit that required running with a wide gap in the fence might be a rather more severe test of this and require more airflow through the fence like you say. Hard to change the Incra though, and it may be possible to use the free hose in support mode in that situation too) and also to get close to causing problems by sucking larger work down on to the table.

This set up as before absolutely would not work with a much lower powered dust system, or a shop vac....

ian

[Eric DeSilva]

One alternative is to look for a router with decent DC to start with. I've got a Triton router that has a DC port and a Pro Max top/fence, which also has a port for a shop vac. I ran 1/2" wide 1/4" deep dados in 700 feet of birch ply last night and had virtually no clean up with my CT-22 hooked up to just the router. There were some bits spit out along the cut dado side, but that's all. In other cases, I'll split the line and have some suction attached to the fence itself, but the router dust port seems to work pretty well on its own there too.

[Mike Goetzke]

Except for dadoes, when is the cutter not at the fence? I'm telling ya, you need most of your suction at the back of the fence because that is where the bit throws the chips. Roundover, chamfer, miter lock, panel raising, rail and style, they are all at the fence. And you need to be careful, especially if you are using a low cfm shop vac vs a dust collector, and that is any air you are bleeding into your box just for cooling is air that is not collecting dust. Maybe I am not understanding the differences between routers as far as dust into the motor and cooling issues.

In post #19 above you can sort of make out my old set-up. A 4" port for the box that gets connected to my dust collector and the Incra fence got hooked up to my shop vac. Routing my many rails, stiles, and panels several times I needed to clear the shavings caught between the router and plate even using an insert ring tight to the bit.

Ian, is the hose and hood pointing at the floor always open? I don't see a blast gate on it. If so it would seem that you are loosing a lot of cfm at the fence and down through the table.


One alternative is to look for a router with decent DC to start with. I've got a Triton router that has a DC port and a Pro Max top/fence, which also has a port for a shop vac. I ran 1/2" wide 1/4" deep dados in 700 feet of birch ply last night and had virtually no clean up with my CT-22 hooked up to just the router. There were some bits spit out along the cut dado side, but that's all. In other cases, I'll split the line and have some suction attached to the fence itself, but the router dust port seems to work pretty well on its own there too.

Router design probably helps but I love my Milwaukee. With the lift and the remote speed/power control I never have to go into the router enclosure. I was thinking something else may improve dust collection when using a lift - a router collet extension. Right now with most cuts the motor is very close to the router plate. If an extension was added to provide additional clearance I think the dust/stringers would have more space to get out of the way. Then if you added an extension (don't know if there are any good quality ones) you could even use the Router Dust device posted earlier.

Mike (thanks for all the ideas - I need to get my cabinet built so I can try some of these ideas)

[ian maybury]

I'm running an Xtreme extension in an old but not heavily used De Walt 625 Mike, have been checking the run out on occasion with a dial gauge (it made me a bit nervous too!) and have so far found it be very very good. I can't remember the figure, but basically it's holding effectively zero run out, and the figure is dead consistent. It's even had a bump or two where i let a cutter get too big a bite and it stayed put. Not sure how it might do on large diameter e.g panel raising cutters though. The only minor quibble is that it needs a bit of care to get the Allen key into the socket head cap screw that secures the cutters - and even that is just a matter of establishing a technique.

My raising and lowering arrangements are rather more budget/basic - just a Raizer that fits in the router. It actually works very well, but could use a little more travel - although in the end that's determined by the router itself.

Re. stuff like your router obscuring the air intake around the cutter. There's different ways of going at some of this, but it's very hard i think short of years and years of experience and trying lots of table layouts and dust system types to be definitive about dust collection arrangements beyond a certain point - such small differences in both the set up and the job can matter quite a lot. Even if you come up with something to solve your current known problems it's not impossible that changes won't cause new problems, or that a previously untried format of job will bring something new to light.

I have to say that while i got some great input from the guys here as a result of raising a similar question to yours last year that (a) the layout i ended up with was still through no fault of anybody - it's just such a complex problem with so many variables - a bit of a shot in the dark (as in a not entirely but still to a reasonable degree a judgement call), and (b) it's hard to say definitively how well it will work on the many sets ups it's not been tested on yet.

One thing that has become clear is that having a powerful dust system sidesteps many potential issues. It's hardly a cure all, but while it seemed at the start that the extra pressure and air flow from the 5HP/16in impeller system would be total overkill it's actually proven to be very useful indeed..... (e.g. it both has the volume to run a spare intake and give strong flow down past the cutter through the dust chute - while at the same time it develops enough suction to pull strongly through the fairly restrictive Incra fence port.

ian

[Ole Anderson]

Ah, forgot about the arch top cabinet doors I made for my son, that did get a little messy, but that was while I was still using my Penn State 1 hp 2 bagger for dust collection. Unless I need to do stopped dadoes, I try to use my Freud dial-a-dado in my TS, much higher feed rate than a router bit, cast iron table. 3 hp just works.

[ian maybury]

To Eric on finding a router with good dust collection. A highly efficient router mounted set up could sidestep the need for dust chutes and all of that, but after some searching i chickened out on finding a set up that inspired that sort of confidence. (somebody does offer a shroud that attaches to the plunge pillars (?) too) The dust chute/box in the end seemed like a proven, safe and versatile/multi function if more complicated solution..

The difficulty that's left is the likelihood that even if the router/dust chute/under table collection is really good it seems likely that there will still be set ups where it's not going to be able to catch all of the dust because the action isn't happening close enough to it.

TBH the extra 4in hose i went with felt like a cop out at the time (it requires set up, and it's still not going to 100% cover all scenarios) - in that it's not what feels like an 'elegant' and total solution. i.e. a single fix that is always there, and both works 100% in all scenarios AND greatly simplifies the hardware that's needed....

ian

[Eric DeSilva]

Ian, your set up is pretty spectacular, but not everyone has a DC with that kind of suction. Frankly, I get better chip collection out of my CT-22 shopvac than I'd get if I tried to neck down my DC to a 4" port at the router. The air movement I get from my cyclone is great for picking up fine dust, which is why I've got it, but it isn't ideal for the larger chips generated by a router and thrown out at relatively high velocity. If I really wanted to improve on things, I'd probably extend the 4" DC port I've got attached to my sharkguard on my TS over the extra 12" to the router table and suspend it over the router set up. But I'm probably less obsessive than I should be about router table dust, partly because I don't spent a lot of time using my router set up anyway. On the other hand, I am convinced that DC should be an integral part of equipment design and that most aftermarket solutions are band-aids. If I did another router table, I'd probably drop a Festool router in it, frankly.

[ian maybury]

+ 100% Eric - so many variables influence how these systems work.

This is not to brag because in my case the dust system was installed for other machines, and whatever advantage it delivers was a happy accident - i was sure for ages that it would prove an embarrassing level of overkill on the router table. It's more than is strictly necessary to get the job done, but equally when it's there it's surprising how useful it is.

We often talk elsewhere about the usefulness of high CFM, but a router table (with its possibility of needing to pull air through small ports on both the fence, and past small cutters) seems to be a case where the extra pressure/suction capability delivered by a large diameter fan impeller may come into its own. As it probably does on other machines with small ports too....

ian

[Jim Andrew]

Did any of you guys see the video that Eurekazone had up on the M12vc router for dust collection? I sent the base to one of my M12vc routers to them, they put a dust pipe in place of one of the handles and enclosed the base with some thin plastic. To change cutters I have to pull the motor out of the base, but it works quite well for dado cuts. I have some routers attached to plates, so I can just switch out routers in the table without having to change cutters, and just use that router for grooves. And it doesn't work with the dc, too small an opening, use a shop vac for it. Otherwise, I collect from the fence, tried collecting from the cabinet, that didn't work.

[Drew Watson]

I did mine very much the same way as Brian has his set up ( slight differences but pretty much the same) My entire lid lifts up to gain access to the router and it also gives two good hiding spots for small tools for the router. Sealed with weather stripping the weight of the top provides a good seal and I never have any dust build up inside the compartment.

[Brian Brightwell]

You guys need to post more pictures !

[Alan Bienlein]

Here are some pics of my dust collection setup for my router table extension wing on my table saw.
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The back side of the fence with the 4" flex hose connection.
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The opening for the under table dust collection. It measures 4" x 10"
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This is the blast gate used to control the under table dust collection.
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This is a view of that pipe after that blast gate and where it enters the space for the router.
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And finally a shot of the opening for the under table dust collection right under the top and the full width of the opening.
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This setup works very well as there is never any dust left inside where the router is and the above table dust collection does very well. One side benefit is with all the suction you