Euro Hinges(long) - AAAGGHH!!

[Dale Thompson]

Hi Folks,
I've gotten to the point where I'm making the doors for a rather large "storage table" for my daughter and SIL. I'm trying to match the design of their existing furniture. As is typically the case, they have purchased everything from the fourth moon of the seventh ring of Saturn. :mad: Their present stuff uses "invisible" Euro hinges. That I have figured out. :cool:

I'm using "face-frame" construction but have never used "invisible" hinges before. I have always used the ones that I can SEE. They are a lot easier to find on the workbench. ;)

Anyway, in looking at the Woodworker's Supply Catalog, I see that I have a choice of "screwmount" or "press in" hinges. What's the difference? Does "press in" mean that I drill a 35 mm hole as opposed to NOT drilling the hole? THAT should be a real challenge - especially for ME! :eek: :confused:

I know that I want a 1/2" overlay so that is not a problem. However, when I get further down the column, I see that "base plates" are also listed. What do I need "base plates" for? :confused: My table is not that heavy and I don't think that it will fall through the floor and end up in the basement. Are these "invisible" hinges THAT heavy? :eek:

I assume that these things are "self-closing". Is that correct? If not, why is the price so high that only rich people can afford them?

If you think that the hinge problem is weird, you should see what they have for door handles! These handles don't stick out. They are rounded trapezoids cut INTO the doors with a slight undercut on the far end from the hinges. That is for "adults" to grasp in opening the doors. They are supposed to be "childproof". Yeah Right! The only person who can open these doors without a screwdriver and a stick of dynamite is my 18 month-old grandson! ;) :rolleyes:

I'll be back when I get to the "handles".

Thanks - and QUIT laughing at me!! :o

Dale T.

[Chris Rosenberger]

The difference between the screw in & press in is the the press ins have a plastic dowels pre screw to the hinge. I use the screw ins. For face frames with a 1/2" overlay you need 859-280. That is the Woodworkers Supply number. Those are Amerock System 2000 Face Frame cup hinges.

[M. A. Espinoza]

I'm not the authority on Euro hardware but we used only Blum hinges at the cabinet shop. Very nice quality.

Blum makes a machine called a mini-press that bores all the mounting holes for the hinges automatically using pneumatics and then you load it with the hinge on a ram and it then presses the hinge into the door. Door bored and hinge mounted in about twenty seconds. Thats what the press-in hinges are for.

As far as the plates they allow you to get a wide variety of overlays on frameless and FF construction using the same hinge.

The cost of these hinges will be apparent when you install and go to adjust your door reveals. Most hinges allow for three way adjustment by turning cams after installation.

They're worth the money in time saved in installation and speed of adjustment. Oh yeah, they usually are clip-on which means you can pop the door off without unscrewing anything. Helps with transportation for install.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

We buy Blum's at Rockler when we can. $2.60 each for face frame Euro hinges versus the $3.50-$6 each elsewhere, but they don't always carry a bunch of them so if we need more than a few we're stuck witht higher priced ones. I'm sure they could be had cheaper via mail order, but we can't usually wait that long.

I'd rather use the visible ones too...much easier for me. Lamar is great at getting Euros to behave. They're head scratchers in my book!

[Christian Aufreiter]

I know that I want a 1/2" overlay so that is not a problem. However, when I get further down the column, I see that "base plates" are also listed. What do I need "base plates" for? :confused: My table is not that heavy and I don't think that it will fall through the floor and end up in the basement. Are these "invisible" hinges THAT heavy? :eek:

The hinges are installed on the doors, while the base plates are screwed to the cabinet itself. The hinges can't be used without the base plates. Good, modern hinges and base plates allow to remove the door from the cabinet without using tools.



I assume that these things are "self-closing". Is that correct? If not, why is the price so high that only rich people can afford them?

Price is relative :D and once you have used the Euro style hinges you're likely to never look back. One important advantage is their flexibility and adjustability.
There are "self-closing" and "non-self-closing" types. I use the "self-closing" ones and like them. If you open and close "self-closing" hinges, you should hear a "click". The "self-closing" features might appear pretty "aggressive" when the hinge is not installed but I assure you that it works very well.
As far as I know, Blum introduced new hinges with Blumotion. If you're not going to use those hinges, I'd recommend to use something like "Tesa Rutschstopper" (http://www.tesa.de/professional/ccommerce/products/leben21/filzg246/40636.html).

A couple of links that might help:
32 mm Cabinet Making (http://32mm.dalrun.com/)
Lee Valley (http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=41255&cat=3,41241) -> check out the instructions.

Hope this helps,

Christian

[Dev Emch]

Sorry to hear you dilema over these hinges. I have sorta stopped laughing as I have seen this all before.

But these hidden euro hinges are not Captain Crunch Proof! The youngsters, like gorrillas in the myst, seek out step stools and tools and work as a committe to figure out how to open the upper kitchen cabinets... those are the ones with the new euro hinges you labored so intensly to adjust. As is always the case, one finds the door equiped with child proof hardware and this defeats junior by about 20 seconds. On opening the door, Jr. loses his balance and swings outward riding the door like an old gate. When you get home, you find Captain Crunch residue all over the kitchen and the top cereal cabinet no longer closes.

This would almost be funny if it were not true. Since this product testing by the Junior Product Testers of America, I have gone back to using regular hinges.

[Richard McComas]

Dale, check out the Blum Inserta Hinge, it eliminates screw and dowels.

http://www.rp-hardware.co.uk/Inserta.shtml

[Tom McDermott]

The Blum numbering system is a little complicated. You can download their
catalog, and study it a bit, but it eventually leads to the right hinge. I have used the screw-in, full overlay style with good results, and the Blum hinges appear to be high quality.

The Blum product & document selector (very helpful) is at: http://www.cabinetparts.com/tech_data/blum/blum_index.html

The full catalog is at:
http://www.cabinetparts2.com/tech_data/blum/catalog-hinges.pdf

-- Tom

[Dale Thompson]

Thanks a million guys! As usual, you have given me the info and confidence to go ahead and take the "invisible" plunge. :)

One more question: When my order arrives and I go for installation, how do I know if the "invisible" screws are slotted or phillips head? :confused: I sure hope that I don't DROP one! :( :D

Hey Dev, remember that Captain Crunch is for eating - not walking on. That can become a "slippery slope". You should consider "generics" as a less expensive alternative. Maybe someday you will figure out a way to outsmart Jr.. Good Luck - it NEVER happened to moi! ;) :eek:

Dale T.