SCMI minimax Formula T-1 shaper

[David Scheckman]

Anyone know anything about the Formula T-1 shaper? I can see a few around online but not many. Its probably mid 90's. Can't quite tell how it fits in with the other SCMI shapers, T-110 and T-130. The asking price is $3650 with 3 sizes of spindles and some misc cutters. 9 hp motor. Looks pretty clean, but definitely used. I have a pending (quickly) project where I need a shaper more capable then my Delta 3hp. I'll have to deal with phase conversion, might just go with a static converter for the short run so I can get it up and running quickly, seems like resulting 6hp would be a lot more capable then my current 3hp Delta. Any advice or comments appreciated.
David

[Peter Quinn]

I have no experience with that particular Minimax but have a smaller 5hp t-40 in my shop, and it's a heck of a lot more machine than a delta HD. The Minimax line was not made in Italy , or at least lots of the parts weren't, but made under close supervision just across the border in eastern Europe, Albania maybe? Generally Italian motors (very good) and Italian switches(less good but ok ). Probably not as stout as a t-110, but I'd bet it's close. Looks like a smaller table, smaller overall foot print, probably thinner castings. The t-40 for instance has a hunk of iron mounted in the cabinet down low to add mass, and it does, but that's not the same thing as heavier castings. They were the small shop alternative to the full industrial build of the scmi main line, which were more of a multi shift industrial production build.

[Stephen Cherry]

Looks like that machine weighs around 450 kg, (maybe 1000 lbs?). So it's closer to a t110 than a t130. I've got a t110 and think of it as a really nice movable machine. Mine has about 5 hp, and that's about what I figure it's good for. If you want to remove 9 hp of wood at a time, then the t130 would be more appropriate. The t110 and t130 machines look about the same, but the t130 is about twice the machine. Not as movable though. I've got a delta hd also, and they are not really comparable.

If you have some time, I would look for a scmi t110 or t130, with a target price of about 1500 or 3000 respectively. I bought my t110 for about 850 with a delta feeder, but those days have come and gone. The laundry sale deals are not as easy to come by. For that minimax, I would ask if they are open to serious negotiation. I've just seen too many machines for 1-2 k.

Phase conversion is a whole other topic. It can be done on the cheap if you are a scrounger, and handy. The practical machinist site has everything you need to know. Basically, you need a motor of about twice the machine hp, and a motor start box to start that motor, and some capacitors and a few other parts. The advantage to doing it yourself is that you could use all industrial quality parts from craigslist, etc.

If you are in a real hurry though, it may not be the time for shopping around.

[David Scheckman]

Thanks for the responses. Any sense of parts availability for the mid 90's SCMI machines?

David

[Stephen Cherry]

Thanks for the responses. Any sense of parts availability for the mid 90's SCMI machines?

David

Bearings are generic, Dave at Oella saw has an scmi spindle collection. Partspronto is there, but I have not needed to use it. The good thing about scmi is that they seem to be the McDonald's cheeseburger of shapers.

[Peter Quinn]

Thanks for the responses. Any sense of parts availability for the mid 90's SCMI machines?

David

I've had mixed results. Some things are in stock and come quickly, some things are back ordered and I think they actually have to make them to order, some things are just unavailable. I'd guess all the major wear parts are available, spindles are a bit harder to come by, so what you get may be what you have. Bearings are not a problem, but at that price, they should be in good order or I'd pass. I've needed very little for mine, it was lightly used. I tried to get a few odd parts for the fence, no dice, I'd have to have them made, I can live without them.

[Rick Fisher]

You can go to partspronto.com and see if the parts are available.

[Peter Quinn]

You can go to partspronto.com and see if the parts are available.


The web site will take orders for parts you may never get. It will tell you what is absolutely unavailable, but not everything that gets accepted as an order actually gets you parts.

[David Kumm]

Carissa Stanford at Parts Pronto is a gem. She finds parts others say aren't available and goes the extra mile to find a solution. They won't be cheap but every company makes money on parts. Dave

[Jeff Duncan]

Only thing I'll add is to consider the value of the spindles and cutters when comparing high end machines. Most used machines I've seen only come with the spindle that's in it. Having the extra ones can not only be handy, but if you need them save you a lot of $$$. I'm not sure what the Formula spindles cost, but the spindles for my machine run up around $800, so you may want to call and get a price. Also if the cutters are in good shape and are ones you may use you have to give them a certain value as well. One last thing is who are you buying the machine from? If your buying it from the original owner that's likely a safer bet than buying one at auction. So weight all those things when looking at the shaper. As Stephen mentioned T110's were, and maybe still are, going for fairly cheap prices, but it should be mentioned that most of them, or at least the ones I looked at, were coming out of plants where they were driven hard;)

good luck,
JeffD

[David Scheckman]

Yes, one of the nice things about the Formula T-1 that's available is the range of spindles that come with it. The cutters are just pictured jumbled in a box (maybe a bit of a warning sign), hard to tell what value they would end up having. I'm definitely wary of the possibility of an industrial machine being used hard. I don't have an exact date but I think its at least 15 years old. The dealer assures me it's all in working order, but working order can mean a lot of things. Its not someone I've done business with before. I'm really not in the market for a project machine. So, I'm still uncertain as to the best approach towards finding the right shaper. Probably calls for patience, sometimes in short supply.
Thanks,
David

[Stephen Cherry]

David- don't know where you are located, but that can make a big difference. I am in the DC area, and local to me there are a few good deals each year on shapers. Not very many, but if you only need one, it's enough.

My impression is that these machines could sit around for a long time, and occasionally run a profile for a specific project; or they could be turned on each day at 7 and turned off at 4. Mine came from a company that builds displays, so it was relatively lightly used, but it is about 20 years old. Even from a cabinet shop with just a few employees, I would think that a machine would be just fine. It's where lumber is brought in by the truck full that I would be careful.

Cutters can make all the difference; they can cost whatever you want them to cost, and will add up to more than the cost of the machine very quickly. I've bought most of mine used, or or as "new old stock".

What do you want to make? For doors, it may be better to get three shapers. If you start looking, your deal will pop up out of nowhere.

[David Scheckman]

I'm looking, best I can from a fairly isolated rural location in VT. I'd like to find something before the end of the year, although I may slow down, wait for a deal. Does anyone know where new SCMI 110 nova shapers are made? Still from Italy?
Thanks,
David

[joe milana]

David, yes the new T110 shaper is made in Italy. There is one locally at one of our woodworking stores. I got a quote on it about a year ago for somewhere between 6-7K. Can't remember exactly. The nice thing about it is the table is a lot bigger than the older ones. About 48". The brokers have really inflated the prices of the used ones, and they know nothing about the history of the machines they are selling. There are exceptions, but it's an investment in time to find one. If you want a project machine, sure there are some that look good, but buying a used "plug & play" machine off the internet is a crap shoot.

[David Kumm]

All SCMI shapers are good but the Nova serioes are lighter duty than the Class series. T130 is class 110 is nova. relevant if buying used. Pretty hard to wear out a Class series shaper. May need new bearings but the brake is manual and no soft start so there isn't much to go wrong in the electrics which is typically the weak spot in German and italian machinery- or cars. Dave

[J.R. Rutter]

The T1 does seem very similar to the T130 and T110. I don't know what the spindle bearing size is on them. I believe that the 110 and 130 refer to the overall cartridge diameter, so that gives an indication of how they compare. It has been a long time since I saw the insides of a T1, but I think that they are essentially the same as the SCM branded shapers. I never understood why the MiniMax electronic controls are different. Maybe the SCM stuff is "ruggedized" for a more production environment. Anyway, considering the spindles and cutters, it seems like a decent deal if you want it right now rather than waiting.

[edit] I'm referring to mm in diameter, if that wasn't clear. 4.3" vs 5.1" - not a huge difference compared to a "light duty" shaper.

[David Kumm]

The spindles on the big MM and the T110 are very similar to the 130 so the machines must be pretty stout even if lighter. Didn't want my previous post to imply light duty for those machines. I bought a 3/4" spindle thinking it fit the T130 and it is slightly different but almost as heavy. I'm assuming it fits the 110 or T1. If anyone needs a spindle for those machines, I'm the guy. Dave

[David Scheckman]

Well, I ended up with a new T110 , year end deal on a showroom model, will work out pretty good I think. Now on to 3 phase conversion. If anyone knows of a rotary converter available that can start a 9 hp motor let me know. That'll also give me the opportunity to restore our 16" Moak jointer back to direct drive three phase. (Converted to single phase 35 yrs ago but kept the motor and mounts) Also might be looking for a feeder. I have a 1hp powermatic on the delta I can use but ultimately may want a feeder on each machine.
Thanks for everyone's help and comments,
David

[joe milana]

Congrats on the new machine! And despite being referred to as "light", is still a tank compared to newer powermatic or equivalent. I nearly bought the same machine until I finally hit on a NOS machine. I went with a phase perfect for my 3 phase and have no regrets...once it was paid off...:o They come up used once in a while, but I had no luck. Tried to find a used feeder as well, but no luck there either. All I could find was used for 6-700 so I just purchased new. I had work to do & felt I was wasting my life away scouring the web for a deal.

[Stephen Cherry]

Well, I ended up with a new T110

Congratulations! With a new machine, you have all the machines life ahead of you. And shiny too.

I use a phase converter with a 15 hp idler motor on my t110 with about 5 hp, and with a heavy cutter it can be pretty stressed. The idler motor makes some noise. I'd either go with the phase perfect, or a rotary converter with at least 20 hp. The normal rule of thumb is to double the biggest motor hp to get the idler motor size.

[David Kumm]

Every RPC company sizes their products differently so check with them. Quality motor is important, heavy frame is better and some motors are designed specifically for the converter although that isn't the biggest deal in the world. I would ask about the electrical components - where they are made and quality. They aren't that expensive so it doesn't make sense to buy cheap. A starter is nice as there is no real cheap way to add a size 2 mag starter and it usually only adds $100 or so to the price. Look at idle amps as a sign of efficiency and for the extra $100 or so I'd try to get one balanced for CNC as they have closer tolerances. Dave

[Peter Quinn]

Congrats on the new shaper. I'm happy with American Rotary for phase conversion, they make them them that large and larger. Worth a look. Enjoy it and work safe.

[David Scheckman]

That's helpful , I'm just now trying to wade through the rotary converter choices. American Rotary seems a little cheaper then some, 20% off end of the year deal. Maybe they have that deal all the time, can't tell. I'm also seeing Kay Industries Phasemaster a little more expensive, and Phase-a-matic, more expensive yet. Arco and Remco also at the high end. Kind of hard to tell the difference.

[David Kumm]

Kay makes a couple of series, the MA being the one that allows for multiple machines and the one you want. Am Rotary has quite a following on OWWM- by the guys who did not make their own. The motor they use has less start up amp draw so if you are amp challenged that would be a consideration. The parts are cheap if you have a motor. I'd find a reasonably priced one and watch for a used Phase perfect. I run a PP and have a Kay for backup on a double throw switch and haven't used the Kay since. The 10 hp Kay is about equivalent to the 20 hp Am Rotary in starting ability. North American Rotary is also a Wisconsin company and makes a decent unit for the price from what I've heard. Dave

[Erik Loza]

..The Minimax line was not made in Italy , or at least lots of the parts weren't, but made under close supervision just across the border in eastern Europe, Albania maybe?...

Ran across this thread and just wanted to comment. Minimax has a production line located in the Republic of San Marino, an independent state of sorts, inside the borders of Italy. It is located near our other plants in the city of Villa Verruchio, which is located in northern Italy. To the best of my knowledge, none of our machinery was ever manufactured in Albania or any other country aside from Italy or the RofSM. The production line there has the same quality control standards as the rest of our plants, which is industry leading. In other words, there never has have been "different grades" of Minimax or SCMi product. It is all built to the same level and quality, though obviously, a Minimax T40 shaper is a much smaller and lighter platform than the FORMULA T1 or the T110 Nova.

Regarding the FORMULA T1, these were essentially SCMi Nova shapers, rebadged for Minimax. We ran the FORMULA line for a few years but it was discontinued around 2010 because it really made no sense to have two lines of the same machine competing with each other. For reasons still mysterious to me, FORMULA yet remains on the Minimax US homepage... :confused:

Hope this helps clarify,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Peter Quinn]

Ran across this thread and just wanted to comment. Minimax has a production line located in the Republic of San Marino, an independent state of sorts, inside the borders of Italy. It is located near our other plants in the city of Villa Verruchio, which is located in northern Italy. To the best of my knowledge, none of our machinery was ever manufactured in Albania or any other country aside from Italy or the RofSM. The production line there has the same quality control standards as the rest of our plants, which is industry leading. In other words, there never has have been "different grades" of Minimax or SCMi product. It is all built to the same level and quality, though obviously, a Minimax T40 shaper is a much smaller and lighter platform than the FORMULA T1 or the T110 Nova.

Regarding the FORMULA T1, these were essentially SCMi Nova shapers, rebadged for Minimax. We ran the FORMULA line for a few years but it was discontinued around 2010 because it really made no sense to have two lines of the same machine competing with each other. For reasons still mysterious to me, FORMULA yet remains on the Minimax US homepage... :confused:

Hope this helps clarify,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA


Thanks for the explanation and correction Erik. Interesting to learn. I love my T-40, great little machine, truly lives up to its name. I'd read that bit about minimax line made outside of the main SCMI plants somewhere on the web, lots of misinformation out there, sorry I was part of spreading it. I would argue that the switches on the older minimax stuff (t-40's and 50's anyway) were clearly a grade below anything I've ever seen on the SCMI branded machines I've used, though the rest of the machine is of truly the same quality even if lighter build. I predict I will be the last owner of my t-40 in my lifetime. Mine is a "Frankenmax", I modified a small slider from an old SCMI table saw (but it fit nearly flawlessly on the T-40), works great every time.

[Erik Loza]

No worries, Peter. :)

It can be confusing. Even within the Euro machines, one company might make machines for another to re-brand and unlike here in the US, there doesn't seem to be any priority for disclosure about that type of thing. I spoke to a gentleman a couple of months back, who was shopping for a combo machine. Wanted to compare specs of some machine he was looking at to one of our CU410 Elites. He emailed the data sheet of the one he was looking at and lo and behold, it WAS a CU410 Elite, just re-branded for some company I was until-then unfamiliar with. Thought that was quite interesting.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA