PDA

View Full Version : Belated Gloat.... Older Toy, New membership.



Dev Emch
04-26-2005, 6:21 PM
Believe it or not, I just signed up to sawmillcreek. Lots of intense folks and I like that even it I believe the official color of a table saw is sky blue and not black:) So how about a belated gloat?

I would like to introduce you guys to the latest legal immigrant to the United States. This little girl left Bad Windsheim, Germany to make a living in the glorious United States. It was built in the south of Germany in the town of Bad Windsheim in a small factory that resembles a braverian mountain hotel. They even have window boxes full of fresh flowers in the summer. The machine tools are a collection of new and old. The planer is about 80 years old and the CNC lathes are euro modern. The company is actually run by a lovely lady. They have been at for about 100 years.

This is the TFS-1200 manual tilting spindle wood shaper with an HSK quick change spindle. There are so many options that it takes a few days to just figure out what you want on it. The major ones were the sliding table and the cast iron right side extension wing. You can get several different table options and sizes. Right now, there are fewer than ten of these in the United States and I think that number is even smaller. Martin lost out on this deal because they were not manual and I wanted manual and the machine is solid cast iron. It only weighs 4500 pounds however so its not as bad as it could have been. I think the matin with its concrete composite construction weighs more. All of that extra electrical junk really ran the price of the martin up as well. Options are great if they do something. Otherwise, its expensive bling bling that I dont want. I also ordered a swing away power feeder which allows you to swing the power feeder into position quickly. The fence weighs about 100 pounds and consists of the hofmann fence along with an Aigner guard and generic fence faces. It would be nice to have the Aigner finger faces but these are more than I wanted to pay for that option. I should have also ordered the option which allows you to crank up the fence and swing it out of the way on the right side but did not know it was available for this particular configuration. I thought it was only available when you ordered the electronics pod option which I dont want. I like the electricals tucked neatly out of the way under the right table extension.

The sliding table is unsual. It can fold out of the way or it can "fly" over the main table and be used as a tenoner. It can also be set up to work more or less as a wood milling machine. In these shots, I had to cut detailed jog boards for a maple flooring job I am on for use with an inlay. The terminus head needed to shave a gap within +/- 0.003 inches of accuracy! Like all things in machine work, its 9 parts setup and 1 part cut. Fit like a glove first time out.

This company does not grind tables. They do it the old fashioned way... they plane them. A metal planer is a monster machine that shaves off a swath of metal only about 1/4 inch or so wide and then reindexes for the next cut. This leaves a dead on flat table which is more accurate than most grinders can produce. The stripes you see are the tell tale sign that this table was planed. In the old days, metal planers were used all the time but as grinders got cheaper and quality standards went down, so did the need to use planers. Today, the are almost obsolete dinosaurs. But nothing beats a planed surface for woodworking machines! Not only are they flatter, but the striping is actually like tiny tiny corregations where the recess dips by about 0.0005 inches from the high points. This breaks up the sticktion resistance you often see when you run a very smooth hunk of maple through a polished surface like you have on some powermatics or jets these days. Notice the "tiger stripes" on the surfaces. I wax this with a good furniture wax and moving stuff through this shaper is a real breeze.
Also notice the big round donut surrounding the spindle. This is a turntable. If I needed to, I could rotate the fence assembly around in a circle to get the best possible angle of attack for the job I am doing. The spindle is also reversible so that I can do climb cutting. But please dont attempt climb cutting unless your using a powerfeeder!

Another photo shows the 30 mm HSK-80 spindle with an adjustable groover mounted to it. Now thats a router bit! The HSK standard is used by european metalworking machines and is one of the most accurate out there. You take a long T wrench/allen wrench and stick it down the hole on the top and rotate by 1/4 turn. This method is a unique to hofmann as most machines have draw cams run from below. But on a wood shaper, that is not practical! So the lock down cam or draw cam is run from above. I can release, remove, re-install and lock a spindle in about 7 seconds.

One concern I have is that the sliding table, which is mostly used for end grain cuts, does not have the chance to use the tilting spindle. There is an option to use a tiny, surface mount sliding table which bolts ontop of the main table and can use the tilt option but I have not had any need for it yet. A buddy of mine who has a similar shaper with this feature uses it for chair making all the time. I should get a chair commision so that I can go out and buy this auxillary table:)

At any rate, this shaper has seen quite a bit of use of late and is the most important machine in my shop these days. It will do almost anything. I even run router bits when I need to do blind dados. The other day, I had to prepare some glue in spline stock for the flooring job. I used a 1/8 inch half round porter cable router bit on this beastie. Works great. So I am selling off my old Rebel router table as that is no longer of any use to me.

It was very painful to get into this machine! This is my newest machine and its a 2004 and my oldest machine is an 1898 drill press. Its a line shaft drive, babbitt bearing drill press. I use it to run forstner bits as its speed is just perfect for this.

Ken Fitzgerald
04-26-2005, 6:31 PM
Dev...it's a beauty! But....you and Lou are making it hard on us hobbiests!

Dev Emch
04-26-2005, 6:39 PM
Opps... I lost the photo of an HSK 80 spindle. Here it is....

Jeff Sudmeier
04-26-2005, 8:33 PM
Wow, that is a great looking machine! I am sure it will serve you well.

Nick Mitchell
04-26-2005, 8:48 PM
Very nice Dev. It's good to see people who appreciate quality and understand it's benefits for professionals.

I'll be investing in a shaper next year, I'll add Hoffmann to the list.
Does it tilt forwards or back? What feeder do you use?

Bill Simmeth
04-26-2005, 8:51 PM
Sweet machine, Dev. Thanks for posting the pics.

Bill Simmeth
Delaplane, VA

lou sansone
04-26-2005, 9:15 PM
hi dev

nice machine. I can't quite figure it all out, but the couple of things I do like are the tilting spindle and the sliding table. The tilting spindle feature would make me think about selling my shaper for one that tilted. That will have to wait until next year though. What type of shaper did you have before this one?

lou

Dev Emch
04-27-2005, 12:11 AM
Lou...
I actually had two shapers. One was a long table oliver 287 and the other was a general SS-32 which is an old poitras design. Both of them were awsome shapers. But the oliver had no fence at all and it had a 4 foot by 6 foot table. This means a reach over of 24 inches. Do that all day and your back will hurt. Its a bit akward. It also had a thread on spindle which is without a doubt *THE* worst thing oliver, or anyone for that matter, came up with. NEVER AGAIN! If you get a 287, make sure to get a square table and a taper fit spindle. It was also limited to one speed. For long cabinet, window and door parts, the length was nice.

The other shaper was the SS-32. This is a very nice, light weight shaper. Much better designed and made than the delta and powermatic shapers. It is a bit more heavy duty so the closet competition in the powermatic lineup was the powermatic 28 (domestic version).

I had to sell both of these to make room for the new shaper and to help pay for the new shaper. What I do like is the close distance from the front edge to the spindle centerline. If I need more real estate, for running an edge on a whole door for example, I can pull the front edge of the table out by about a foot or so. Note that OSHA makes you have an extra panic button on a string with this option.

So far, in all I have run through this, I have not yet used the tilt spindle. I am sure its time will come and I will be glad to have it, but the point remains that tilting spindle shapers are not as functional as one may think. In fact, you can get this same machine in both the martin and hofmann lineups without the tilt spindle. My buddy just made up some stickley chairs and its in chair parts that this feature was handy. He was cutting angled tenons. The spindle will tilt from minus (-) 5 degrees to positive (+) 45 degrees. But often, tilting spinle applications often involve cuts on end sections like angled tenons on chair parts. Here, you really need the secondary, portable sliding table. This table can actually be used on anything from a table saw to a shaper. It only sits about 1 inch or so above the surface and has a similar fence and table setup as the heavy duty sliding table, only smaller. I have three upgrades planed for this machine. 1). Install a permanent fence lifting bracket to get the fence on and off with ease. 2). Add the secondary sliding table for angled tenons and what not. 3). Add the Aigner professional fence as that really saves time and frustration with smaller parts slipping under the cutters between the infeed and outfeed fences.

Right now, I have a Delta power feeder attached to it. I needed the powerfeeder when I ran some custom baseboard moulding about 11 months ago. I had this delta feeder which I was going to sell but i just added it to the machine. The holes for the delta feeder are actually in a steel bracket which is part of the feeder swing away option so I never swiss cheesed the main surface! These can be replaced with ease if i switch to say a univer feeder in the future. So far, I have been rather pleased with the performance of the delta feeder and unless it coughs a fur ball, I will continue to use it. Another one of those things where once you have fixed the machine, you find it hard to redo it with the correct solution. In fact, I cut a hole in the back of the electrical cabinet and installed a flush fitting hubble plug using a greenlee punch kit. I added a secondary seiems, rail mount contacter to start the three phase feeder and wired it straight in with the mainline disconnect switch. Works great. This part was done at a pro level but upgrading the feeder right now is very very low in priority even though I think the delta model I have is disontinued.

Mark Singer
04-27-2005, 12:17 AM
Thats a nice Hoffman...one of the nicest Hoffman's I have seen on SMC!

Mike Wilkins
04-27-2005, 11:28 AM
That shaper looks like a real bull-hoss. Don't see machines on this site very
often like this.
Hofmann must make some sweet woodworking iron that is beyond the reach
of us mere mortals. Laguna has some of their jointers and planers in their
catalog that you can order. How about a jointer with a 13 foot bed length??
Or a 24 inch combo jointer/planer??
Can anyone provide me with any winning lottery numbers.

Dev Emch
04-27-2005, 2:08 PM
Sure! Quit your job as an engineer and hang up your shingle as a high end woodworker. Forego sleep and embrace stress. Its nice to know you cannt get layed off but then again, you dont know where your cash flow for 6 months or year down the line is coming from. Live comfortable but frugal. It always amazes me how much money is tied up in kitchens and bathrooms. I frequently install shaw fireclay sinks. Nice but these cost as much as a new unisaw! Thats a lot of money for a mini bath tub to wash your food and dishes in!

My buddy has a 24 inch planer/jointer by hofmann. It is a very nice machine for sure and I think its the best combination planer jointer on the market or to date. I also like the jointers and that 13 foot model is humbling to stand in front of isnt it. Have you seen the martin T-54 jointer? Equally impressive.

The biggest problem I have seen with euro machines within the last year is the errosion of the US dollar against the euro. From the time I placed the order to the time this beastie showed up, there were a few prices increases that pushed the cost of the machine up by about 20 or 30 percent. I was lucky that I locked in a purchase contract price at the time the order was taken so I was hedged. The asian trade deficit with the US is not helping here and I just got word that both Felder and Martin are looking at yet another round of increases. When my buddy bought his hofmanns, he paid in Marks and the conversion rate was about 2 marks per dollar. Now we are looking at about 1.3 dollars per euro. OUCH!!!!

The good news is that a machine like this can last a 100 years so I will be able to pass it on to my family when they plant me in the ground.