A tint for Waterlox?

[Sam Murdoch]

Can anyone suggest what product I might use to tint Waterlox - the original sealer finish? I don't want to create a stain but just add a bit of brown to the finish.

I like the intensity of Behlen Solar Lux stains but as these are ethanol based and are only recommended for tinting nitrocellulose lacquers.

Thanks.

[jesse ross]

I like to dissolve metallized dyes in a small amount of glycol ether, then add them to the waterlox. After the glycol has evaporated and the waterlox is dry, the dyes won't re-dissolve under subsequent layers of waterlox, or any other oil-based finish.

[Sam Murdoch]

Good answer Jesse, but this is really new territory for me. Can you give me more info - like a brand name and perhaps what constitutes a "small" quantity of glycol ether? Should the first Waterlox/dye solution be thinned? Wipe on or brush on make any difference? Does this effect the clarity of the finish?

Thank you for any info and/or suggestion.

[Phil Thien]

I think I read that artist's oil-based paints are compatible.

[Henry Ambrose]

Yes, any oil based stains are fine.

[sheldon pettit]

If you do not want any opacity, just use oil soluble dyes like from W D lockwood.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I think I read that artist's oil-based paints are compatible.That's what I've always used with any solvent(oil) based clear coat.
Cheap and readily available at any craft store.

Don't use if full strength though. Thin it down first with MS. Full strength can sometimes "clump". <- small parts clump together and don't mix well.

Yes - it can effect the clarity of the finish. A little shading of the material doesn't effect it a whole lot. If you add more to use it as a "toner" - for a shadow effect around edges/borders, it can become pretty opaque.

Generally, I don't like to use oil based stains for this, although I have a number of times. Oil based stains will work, but, I hate to buy a whole can of something just to use a little bit of it, then have the rest sit around forever.

oops ..forgot..oil based stains, in the past, had a nasty reputation for being off color from batch to batch. I don't know if things have improved a lot in that area.
That made it tough to get the same effect/tone/color when using it to shade a clear coat. Start with an old can to use it up, run short, then try to match what's already started - sort of thing.

[Sam Murdoch]

If you guys are talking about Grumbacher or Windsor& Newton artists oil paints I'm in luck. I've got boxes and boxes of tubes of these including lots of burnt siennas and other shades of brown. Thanks. I'll tint up a batch of Waterlox.

[Pete McMahon]

Sam, you can tint with your pigment paints, however the Lockwood oil soluble dyes will be transparent. To control your tinting process:
liquefy whatever color oil paint you want with a little mineral spirits or naptha. This is easy enough to do in a small container like a yogurt cup and using a small cheap brush to do the mixing.

To this add some Waterlox and incorporate well. Strain and filter this mixture into a clean container. This is your stock tinting medium and you can tint your Waterlox to any concentration you want. Remember though that pigments in the paint are not transparent like a dye. Try a couple of different concentrations on samples to see what works best for your eye.

[Sam Murdoch]

Excellent - procedure and precautions. Thank you. I guess I should get some Lockwood dyes in the shop too.

[Jack Clark]

I don't want to create a stain but just add a bit of brown to the finish.

Sam, for a simple, off-the-shelf brown tint try adding a small amount of Watco Black Walnut. It shouldn't require too much, so I don't think you'll have to worry about "diluting" the Waterlox forumula.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Sam,
Yep - those be the ones. The stuff that comes in "toothpaste" tubes.

I start by squeezing out some an inch long.
One inch of the artists oil color is equal to the amount that would go into a gallon.

Then I draw off a half pint of material from whatever it is I want to color/tone/shade.

Then I take a knife and slice off 1/16" of the artist oil color and add it to the half pint of material and test it.
If it's too light, I slice off another 1/16" and add it. If it's too dark, I draw off another half pint (8 oz) of material.

It's always easier to think in terms of gallons when working up a formula.
128 oz to the gallon can be expressed like this:
1/16 = 1/2 pint (8oz)
1/8 = 1 pint (16 oz)
1/4 = 1 quart (32 oz)
1/1 = 1 gallon (128 oz)

I also use a measuring cup to set lines on the outside of a container for each 8oz. I put 8oz of water in the measuring cup, then pour that into the container I'm going to mix in and draw a line at that level. Then I add another 8 oz and draw another line. Then a third 8 oz and another line.<--if needed. Which, I seldom do need. I've been at this for a good number of years though.
Then after pouring out the water (and drying the mixing container), I draw off 8 oz of material.

I'm sure dyes would work equally well, even though I've never used them. I'm used to the semi paste of artist oil paint and using a knife to "slice" off a "chunk" method of keeping track of the formula.

[Sam Murdoch]

Thanks Rich - I am now bookmarking this thread.

[jesse ross]

Sam, if you're planning to brush/wipe the waterlox (which I would assume), Lockwood's oil based dyes wouldn't be my first choice. First, they have so-so lightfastness, more importantly, they will re-dissolve upon subsequent coats of clear waterlox since they're soluble in oil-based solvents. The cool thing about the metal-complex dyes is that, dissolved in glycol ether, they're temporarily soluble in oils. But once the glycol evaporates, they're insoluble in oil and won't pull up into your next clear-coats, or further toner coats. Plus, they have a much higher resistance to UV fading.

Different metal complex colors have varying solubility in glycol ether, but they're almost always more soluble then they are in water. Lockwood's MCW194 Golden Yellow for example, is almost 3 times more soluble in glycol than water. Let's say the limit of solubility was 1 oz dye in 1 quart water, you could dissolve that same ounce in a little over a half pint of glycol. This comes in handy since you want to add as little glycol to your oil as possible (it slows the drying & curing time significantly, and the newer waterlox formulations dry very slowly already.)

The simplest way I've found to do this process is add as much dye as will dissolve into about 10% glycol to total volume of waterlox, mix the two, then wipe on and wipe back a thin coat. This will dry quickly, and serve as a beautiful and transparent toner coat.

As for sources of dye, I'm admittedly biased since I work for Lockwood. But the Lockwood powders do work well, as do the Tran-Tint NGR dyes, which I believe are premixed in glycol for ease of application.

Jesse

[Sam Murdoch]

Thanks a lot Jesse. This is great info and as I wrote earlier I have bookmarked this thread for future reference. After all I decided that the hint of brown wasn't enough and decided to take the color to another level with stain I had on hand. I will get some metal-complex dyes though. I think I would find many uses considering the kind of finishing I am doing these days.

Here is my project that started me asking about tinting waterlox - http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?196242-Christmas-Present-Design It is a mix of Jatoba and alder. My original plan was to try to get the alder to the finish color of the Jatoba but I decided I wanted to create more contrast so it became a stain job. My goal on this project was to use up only lumber and other materials I had on hand from past finished projects. I was happy to be able to use artist oil paints for the tinting but went in another direction. Other than the cushions this will all be a "clean up the shop" project.

Thanks everyone for the discussion and techniques.