Chopping Chisels

[Ben West]

I never tire of chisel threads...

When I started down the neander slope a couple of years ago, I purchased a set of Ashley Iles Mk II chisels. I have been quite happy with them -- they are well balanced, take a keen edge, sharpen quickly, and have lands narrow enough for dovetail work. The only weakness I have found is that their edge durability is only average when chopping tough woods, as I was reminded tonight when cutting some dovetails in QS white oak.

I will keep the AIs as my all purpose chisels. But, I'm thinking about buying 2-3 chisels just for dovetail chopping. If you were going to do this:

1) would you buy the new Veritas PMV11 chisels, Japanese chisels, or something else?
2) what sizes would you get? 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4? Or could you get away with just 2 sizes?

[Archie England]

I never tire of chisel threads...

When I started down the neander slope a couple of years ago, I purchased a set of Ashley Iles Mk II chisels. I have been quite happy with them -- they are well balanced, take a keen edge, sharpen quickly, and have lands narrow enough for dovetail work. The only weakness I have found is that their edge durability is only average when chopping tough woods, as I was reminded tonight when cutting some dovetails in QS white oak.

I will keep the AIs as my all purpose chisels. But, I'm thinking about buying 2-3 chisels just for dovetail chopping. If you were going to do this:

1) would you buy the new Veritas PMV11 chisels, Japanese chisels, or something else?
2) what sizes would you get? 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4? Or could you get away with just 2 sizes?

I upgraded to LN A-2 chisels and love them! Wow, they get sharp and stay that way much longer than my cheap end beater sets. And if you like the AI balance, LN should be a dream. With that said, I've handled the new LV O1 chisels and they are every bit as good in fit, finish, and balance as the LN, plus they now come in the Pm V11 steel. Even for the same essential price, I'd urge you to try a couple.

I like 1/4 to 5/8 for chopping and trimming my dovetails. However, I reach first for the widest to fit the initial cut. I''m surprised at how little I use a 1/8 and how often I use the 1 1/2 or 2". So, I'm still a fan of sets, but barely.

[Chris Griggs]

What are your bevels honed at? I would recommend increasing your bevel angles, particularly on your narrower chisels before you spend money. IMHO even 01 steel should be honed at 30 degrees or above for chopping with narrower chisels. Of course, if you want to get the new chisels either way than absolutely do so. The design/balance of the new Veritas chisel is superb (I have the 01s) and I fully expect that the PMV11s are as good as it gets. For dovetails, I'd get probably just start with 1/4 and 3/8 and than add on from there.

[Ben West]

Chris - I have them honed with a 30 degree secondary bevel. I thought about bumping them to 35 but these are all purpose chisels and I don't want to hamper my paring ability.

Still, I may give it a try just for fun.

[Mike Henderson]

What are your bevels honed at? I would recommend increasing your bevel angles, particularly on your narrower chisels before you spend money. IMHO even 01 steel should be honed at 30 degrees or above for chopping with narrower chisels. Of course, if you want to get the new chisels either way than absolutely do so. The design/balance of the new Veritas chisel is superb (I have the 01s) and I fully expect that the PMV11s are as good as it gets. For dovetails, I'd get probably just start with 1/4 and 3/8 and than add on from there.
I agree with Chris. The LV PM11V chisels are very good, better than the LN chisels. I would also agree that the 1/4" and 3/8" are a good starter set. I almost never use chisels above 3/4" and rarely use a 3/4". If you are the same, use less expensive chisels for the wide ones and spend your money on the best for the narrow ones.

For sharpening, I put a primary bevel of 25* on all almost all my chisels and then use a secondary bevel depending on the task. So the secondary may be 30* or it may be 35*.

Mike

[Dave Beauchesne]

Ben:

FWIW, I have the LN chisels in A2 and love them - but, that being said, they were bought long before PM-V11 - when a person like George Wilson likes the PM-11's, that is very convincing IMHO.

I have one PM-V11 blade on my LV block plane and like it - a lot.

Also, I do smaller dovetails and bought a 3/16'' LN - it is my go to when cleaning up - the size is just right.

Good Luck -

Dave B

[Jim Neeley]

Ben,

For dovetail work, the sizes you are most likely to use is at least partially dependent on the size of your work and your personal preference for the width of tails and pins. If you have a preference for ultra-narrow pins (aka English style) you'll use the small (aka 1/8" chisel) more and if you like wide tails (1" plus) you will also use the wide chisels. If you prefer fairly equal-sized and mid-sized pins and tails then that width will be most useful.

Just my $0.02.. YMMV.

Jim in Alaska

[Chris Griggs]

Start by just going up a couple degrees (try 32 degrees before going to 35) and only on your narrower chisels. In a narrow chisel the force is more concentrated in one place so they need a more robust bevel. Even the PMV11 chisels come with a microbevel honed to 32 degrees in the 1/4 and 3/8 sizes.

[Jason Coen]

My bank account HATES this thread. :mad:

[Mike Holbrook]

Barr is also a good chisel to consider for tough use. Barr chisels are hand forged by people who actually use them for tough work. I ran a thread "Chisels I can go ahead and whack". At the end of my search I bought a set of Barr chisels on sale from Highland Hardware. Today I would also give the LV PM-V11 chisels a serious look too, as I believe they did extensive testing for the specific type of work we do in wood working.

[Jim Matthews]

I just bought a cheapo set of Footprint chisels with plastic handles and a strike button on the pommel.

They take a reasonably keen edge, and were cheap enough that I don't worry about handling.
Final pairing I do with the nicer chisels I have, but I don't think they're any sharper.

The difference is in how much I paid for them, when it comes to giving them a whack.

I believe that the current crop of top end chisels from Maine and Ottawa will take any abuse.
That said, it's hard to avoid having a "beater" (literally) set for the rough stuff.

The Czech chisels presented with many brand stamps seem durable.
Paul Sellers swears by the Marples/Irwin blue handle chisels and can achieve fine results.

It really comes down to what you can sharpen, and training as a user.

[David Weaver]

I would just use the chisels that you have. If you really absolutely need to, you can move the edge up to 35 degrees with just a few tiny passes on a finish stone and get the same durability you would if you sloughed out a huge bevel at 35, and you can get rid of it later.

I had some AI chisels, they worked fine, but like yours, they were lacking a little bit in edge durability - but not so much that they were unworkable. Somehow I came across them for half price and got them, and eventually sold them and made a few bucks on the whole thing. Anyway, if they were the only chisels I had, I would be fine, and they had a nice grind, which to me is more important.

When you cut across the grain in white oak, you're going to get some damage no matter what you use.