Is a jointer a must have?

[Bobby O'Neal]

So I have every intention of owning a jointer (I think) but haven't pulled that trigger yet due to funding versus need. I have a scrub, 4 and 5 and really haven't "needed" a jointer yet. The next build will be a bench and I think I know the answer already but is this the project that will finally push me to getting something? If so I'll just put it in the budget for this build. Is there a chance that with straight edge and winding sticks, my jack will suffice?

Other tools that may factor that I own currently: 13" planer, TS, routers, jointer fence that I use on my #5. And I will be using SYP 2x12s for the bench.

Thanks for any input.

[Stanley Covington]

So I have every intention of owning a jointer (I think) but haven't pulled that trigger yet due to funding versus need. I have a scrub, 4 and 5 and really haven't "needed" a jointer yet. The next build will be a bench and I think I know the answer already but is this the project that will finally push me to getting something? If so I'll just put it in the budget for this build. Is there a chance that with straight edge and winding sticks, my jack will suffice?

Other tools that may factor that I own currently: 13" planer, TS, routers, jointer fence that I use on my #5. And I will be using SYP 2x12s for the bench.

Thanks for any input.

Bobby:

Of course you can get by without a jointer, so long as you have the skills and the patience to use your No.5 effectively. If you count your time worth much, however, a jointer plane is a worthwhile investment. Besides, your just going to buy one in the future, so why not now when you need it most?

Stan

[Bobby O'Neal]

Bobby:

Of course you can get by without a jointer, so long as you have the skills and the patience to use your No.5 effectively. If you count your time worth much, however, a jointer plane is a worthwhile investment. Besides, your just going to buy one in the future, so why not now when you need it most?

Stan

What you said at the end is what I wanted to know. "When I need it most." Thanks.

[Charlie Stanford]

A jointer should have been the first plane you bought, not the last.

[Carl Beckett]

A jointer should have been the first plane you bought, not the last.

Certainly wasnt my first plane. (my first plane was an old block plane)

Maybe I did it all backwards? (pretty easy to imagine, because I do a lot of things backwards)

[Zach Dillinger]

The jointer is the plane that will open up the world of hand tool work for you, if what you want to make requires it. The rule of thumb (based on math I don't understand) is that a plane will effectively make a straight edge that is roughly 2 times longer than itself. So your #5 will be fine for parts around 2 feet long. Anything longer than that and it is very easy to make a banana. For most cabinet scale work a 22 or 24 inch jointer will be fine. For joiners work, you pretty much need a 30" jointer. My two favorites are a 22" Ohio that is virtually NOS and a self-built 18th c. jointer with silver inlay, although I do have an infill jointer coming my way from Lee Richmond...

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

. . . although I do have an infill jointer coming my way from Lee Richmond...

Oooh - love to see this.

Nothing wrong with getting another plane first - a lot of folks get a block or a smoother for little tasks, and then the bug bites 'em. A plane like that is certainly a decent way to test the water, get an idea of what a plane can do and what sharp is. But if I was jumping straight in with the decision to do a lot of work by hand or with limited machinery, a jointer plane would be one the first I got. I find it invaluable for the majority of my work. I'd rather be without a smoother than a jointer. Even if I worked in a machine-based approach, there's lots of times I'd want to reach for a jointer plane first.

[Bobby O'Neal]

Good stuff guys. Thanks for the input. Again, I thought this would be the project that really required a jointer. I've been watching eBay and the classifieds here for a Bailey 7 or 8 for a while. I'll pull the trigger when I find it for sure.

[Zach Dillinger]

Good stuff guys. Thanks for the input. Again, I thought this would be the project that really required a jointer. I've been watching eBay and the classifieds here for a Bailey 7 or 8 for a while. I'll pull the trigger when I find it for sure.

Keep hunting, and don't ignore a good old wooden jointer. They are incredibly good pieces, if you find one in good shape.


Oooh - love to see this.



I can't wait to get it. Should be any day. I'll be sure to post pics when it arrives.

[Prashun Patel]

If you need an excuse to get a new plane, don't let me stand in the way.

However, I will say that I've recently been able to flatten bench-size slabs with a block plane and a jack plane. Is it ideal? Probably not. However, it forced me to "hone" my sharpening skills and to learn to read the wood with winding sticks and straight edges. I own a jointer. I just don't reach for it as much now. I find it more comfortable to work with smaller planes and keep checking for reference.

[Jason Coen]

I'd give up my smoothing planes before I'd give up my #8. That is the one tool with which I have an unhealthy attachment.

[David Weaver]

although I do have an infill jointer coming my way from Lee Richmond...

Oh my...sounds like it will be a good Christmas.

[Zach Dillinger]

Oh my...sounds like it will be a good Christmas.

I was extra good this year. And by good, I mean I worked my tail off.

[David Weaver]

Always nice to attach a little bit of fruit to the labor at the end of the year.

My grandfather used to modify a popular saying and say "All work and no play makes jack", which confused me when I was little because I've never heard anyone else use the world "jack" for money. At the time, I was working 60 hours a week in a cabinet factory (by choice, of course).

[Sean Hughto]

I think so, yes.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3564/3286119117_84897dbebb_b.jpg

[John A. Callaway]

Good stuff guys. Thanks for the input. Again, I thought this would be the project that really required a jointer. I've been watching eBay and the classifieds here for a Bailey 7 or 8 for a while. I'll pull the trigger when I find it for sure.

I found mine from a small dealer up in the northeast. Always has great users, and good prices. Do a google search for syndas sloot .

[Harold Burrell]

Bobby,

I wondered then same thing about getting a jointer...for a while...until I got one. Now I look for excuses to use it (them). They are just so macho. :cool:

Anyway...in my search for a #8, I picked up 3 in a lot at a Martin Donnelly auction. If you are interested in one of them, send me a PM. I'd tune it up for you and get it ready to "rock and roll".

[Paul Saffold]

"A jointer should have been the first plane you bought, not the last."

Personally, I find the jack (#5) the most used and versatile so would recommend it as a first plane.

[Jeff Heath]

One of the reasons we buy tools, and add tools to our working arsenal, is to make projects easier and faster to complete. For me, it's the only reason.

With enough skill, and the knowledge of how to make a good, long straight edge and a pair of winding sticks, you can diligently flatten your bench with a block plane. For that matter, you can do the same with a chisel. the question is, why would you want to?

I've met a few carvers in my lifetime who can do amazing work with a sharpened spoon. They still choose not to.

All the sizes and different shapes of planes have a purpose. Many perform multiple tasks, and some perform one function only. If you're going to be hand working timbers longer than 2 to 3 feet, having a nice long jointer plane will make life much easier, and will get you through some very mundane tasks much quicker.

Add one to your arsenal. You won't regret it.

Just in case someone is keep score, I think a block plane is the first plane I'd buy (make, for me) if I were starting fresh, knowing what I know now. A low angle jack plane wouldn't be far behind........1 & 1A on the purchase(build) list.

Jeff

[David Myers]

I secured my #7 from Ebay after an auction closed without a winning bid. I just emailed the seller, offered $50 and he agreed. I bought my #8 from Patrick Leach. Dealing with Patrick eliminates guesswork; if he says it just needs to be honed then put to work then you know that's all it needs.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Don Dorn]

Good stuff guys. Thanks for the input. Again, I thought this would be the project that really required a jointer. I've been watching eBay and the classifieds here for a Bailey 7 or 8 for a while. I'll pull the trigger when I find it for sure.

While others will most likely disagree, I think if you are going to ever buy a premium plane, the jointer should be it. Buying one without being able to determine it's flatness is a crap shoot - if you buy one that is premium, it's not only ductile iron which is resistant to warping, but will be flat.

I had a LV Bevel Up Jointer and loved it - I did actually sell it because I was lucky enough to get a very nice #8 and didn't need both. You can flatten the sole of planes #5 and lower fairly effectively, but there are very few people (Jim) that can get that done with a #7 or #8. Buying this one in a more premium plane eliminates those concerns.

[Charlie Stanford]

"A jointer should have been the first plane you bought, not the last."

Personally, I find the jack (#5) the most used and versatile so would recommend it as a first plane.

The late Alan Peters would disagree with you. And me as well, but I don't matter.

[Sean Hughto]

Ian Kirby too I believe.

[Jason Coen]

"A jointer should have been the first plane you bought, not the last."

Personally, I find the jack (#5) the most used and versatile so would recommend it as a first plane.

It depends. I use my jack probably the least of all, but then I don't process rough stock by hand. Someone that is 100% neander, though, would certainly find far more value there than I. The #8 sees the most use.

[David Weaver]

The late Alan Peters would disagree with you. And me as well, but I don't matter.

It the intent is to do something other than smoothing (as in, not a woodworker who will only use a plane to smooth after machines get done with wood), I agree with you too. The last sentence was worth a chuckle. :)

[Bobby O'Neal]

Bobby,

I wondered then same thing about getting a jointer...for a while...until I got one. Now I look for excuses to use it (them). They are just so macho. :cool:

Anyway...in my search for a #8, I picked up 3 in a lot at a Martin Donnelly auction. If you are interested in one of them, send me a PM. I'd tune it up for you and get it ready to "rock and roll".


Thanks Harold. PM sent.

[Charlie Stanford]

It the intent is to do something other than smoothing (as in, not a woodworker who will only use a plane to smooth after machines get done with wood), I agree with you too. The last sentence was worth a chuckle. :)

And I meant it. All of this chipbreaker stuff has me re-reading Krenov, Peters (what I have) Roger Holmes (who trained under Peters) on all of these subjects. This is a good thing. I don't think Krenov let anything slip of of the shop with tearout which would have been particulary egregious given the style in which he built.

[David Weaver]

I missed the tearout discussion in this thread, I'm talking about flat.

The point here is that a jointer will be easier for a beginner (and everyone else) to use to make long and wide things flat. It may not be necessary depending on how subjective that is, but for the vast majority on here, making things out of wood isn't necessary. Why suffer a short plane though a long plane's job, only to have to check and check to see if the job is satisfactory?

[Charlie Stanford]

I missed the tearout discussion in this thread, I'm talking about flat.

The point here is that a jointer will be easier for a beginner (and everyone else) to use to make long and wide things flat. It may not be necessary depending on how subjective that is, but for the vast majority on here, making things out of wood isn't necessary. Why suffer a short plane though a long plane's job, only to have to check and check to see if the job is satisfactory?

Just synthesizing and tying in threads. Feel free to ignore.

Peters and Holmes said everything about the long plane I personally ever needed to hear. But the OP may not have the luxury of a library, old FW mags, or an online subscription, or whatever.

I'm more than happy to have steered (if in fact I did, I don't know) the OP to Peters and Holmes on the subject -- two reliable sources for sure.

[David Weaver]

library, old FW mags, or an online subscription, or whatever......Peters and Holmes on the subject -- two reliable sources for sure.

On the first, many of us don't. On the second, for sure. Why not seek out the doers?

[Zach Dillinger]

On the first, many of us don't. On the second, for sure. Why not seek out the doers?

After reading some of the posts, I'd rather seek out the Dewars...

All kidding aside, I maintain a jointer is key, no matter which expert agrees with me. My experience tells me that it is vital to achieving a flat surface and a straight edge.

[Charlie Stanford]

After reading some of the posts, I'd rather seek out the Dewars...

All kidding aside, I maintain a jointer is key, no matter which expert agrees with me. My experience tells me that it is vital to achieving a flat surface and a straight edge.

I tend to think that I am in agreement (in accordance is probably a better term) with them than rather than they with me. If Alan Peters agrees(d) with you, then that is certainly a feather in your cap. Or maybe you meant some other expert. I reckon he was more than an expert. He transcended that term IMO.

Long planes keep woodworkers out of trouble.

Cheers,

Charles

[Zach Dillinger]

I tend to think that I am in agreement (in accordance is probably a better term) with them than rather than they with me. If Alan Peters agrees(d) with you, then that is certainly a feather in your cap. Or maybe you meant some other expert. He wasn't an expert. He transcended that term IMO.
Cheers,

Charles

Not looking for a feather in my cap, or to align myself with an expert, or subjugate my opinion / experiences to anyone else's opinion / experience. Frankly, I couldn't care less who said what. I know what works for my work, in my shop. That's all that matters to me. I try to share a few of my viewpoints with others who ask. I'll listen to any idea, whether or not they've written a book, or a dozen articles, and compare it to my own experience. If it fits, well, that's great. If not, well, that's great too, we must have different methods and I'll decide if I want to try their method (usually I don't). I don't think I'm arrogant (if I sound that way, my apologies), I just think that if I tried every method from every "expert's" book and blog post, I'd spend all my time trying new things and no time actually making things.

That said, I do tend to put more faith (and effort in trying out) in the ideas that come from people who have demonstrated that they know what they are doing, through actual work rather than simple words. Mr. Peters, among others, would certainly qualify.

Cheers, and have a happy Holiday season!

[steven c newman]

I have both a #7 and a #8 in the shop. I tend instead to reach for one of my #6s i have. Still a long bed plane, just a little bit easier to use. I also ahve a #5-1/2 sized Union #5A, as a long bed smoother. I more comfy using the slightly smaller "jointer" planes. A BIG jointer like that #8 is hard to control jointing an edge, it wants to rock a bit. I don't have that problem with the #6, for some reason.

[Jim Koepke]

I have both a #7 and a #8 in the shop. I tend instead to reach for one of my #6s i have. Still a long bed plane, just a little bit easier to use. I also ahve a #5-1/2 sized Union #5A, as a long bed smoother. I more comfy using the slightly smaller "jointer" planes. A BIG jointer like that #8 is hard to control jointing an edge, it wants to rock a bit. I don't have that problem with the #6, for some reason.

Somewhat the same here. My #6s get more use than the #7 or #8. One #6 is set up to be used like a short jointer, the other is set up to be a long smoother.

On a long, rough sawn piece it is easier to push a #6 until a full width shaving is produced along the full length. Then pull out the #7 or #8 to finish it off and square it up.

Same when working a flat face. The "scrub" work is done with smaller planes. Then the long planes set the surface and smoothers do the final touch if needed.

jtk

[Chris Griggs]

My 6 is my most used plane when it comes to stock prep. I keep mine setup as a jointer/try plane.

[Charlie Stanford]

Not looking for a feather in my cap, or to align myself with an expert, or subjugate my opinion / experiences to anyone else's opinion / experience. Frankly, I couldn't care less who said what. I know what works for my work, in my shop. That's all that matters to me. I try to share a few of my viewpoints with others who ask. I'll listen to any idea, whether or not they've written a book, or a dozen articles, and compare it to my own experience. If it fits, well, that's great. If not, well, that's great too, we must have different methods and I'll decide if I want to try their method (usually I don't). I don't think I'm arrogant (if I sound that way, my apologies), I just think that if I tried every method from every "expert's" book and blog post, I'd spend all my time trying new things and no time actually making things.

That said, I do tend to put more faith (and effort in trying out) in the ideas that come from people who have demonstrated that they know what they are doing, through actual work rather than simple words. Mr. Peters, among others, would certainly qualify.

Cheers, and have a happy Holiday season!

That's certainly one way to approach the craft. It seems to me to be less arrogant than it does fatiguing by unnecessarily steepening the learning curve.

Different strokes and all that. Nothing needs to be justified, just bills paid or fun had. Maybe both or just one. Hopefully at least one.

Merry Christmas.