Dovetailed Shaker Serving Tray

[Martin Shupe]

Lest any of you think that I never complete any projects, today I offer one as proof. I have wanted to make this tray for a long time, and finally finished it last night. The design is from a Kerry Pierce book, although I made some minor adjustments. The hand holds are a little bigger than plan, so my wife won't bruise her knuckles, and the tails of the dovetails are on the long sides as opposed to the ends. I also put the bottom in a dado instead of nailing it on. The finish is 2 coats of Tried and True Danish Oil, followed by Waterlox Medium Sheen...2-3 coats until it looks right and I get a smooth top coat. I learned how to dovetail from Kelly Mehler (www.kellymehler.com), and although I am getting better, they are not perfect yet. The tray is sized so that you can fit a 9 by 12 cake pan inside it and still get your fingers between the pan and the tray, perfect for church pot luck dinners.

The marking knife pictured is from our own Dave Anderson...thanks Dave, it works great!

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Martin,

I am sure you did a great job on the tray, but I don't see it :)

[Martin Shupe]

Jeff...

You are too quick for me. I hit the wrong button and posted the description before I shrunk my pics down to posting size. Then I had to edit the post to shrink and attach the pics. Take a look now, and you should see pics.

I always crop my pics to keep the project as large as possible, then I shrink them the minimum amount to get them to post. However, they always seem to get a little "fuzzy" during the shrinking process. Sure wish I could fix that so you could get a better view of the curly cherry.

[David Fried]

Looks really nice. Great contrast on the dovetails and nice looking wood. It looks really tight. Now you need to fill it up!

[Mark Singer]

Martin,

Great project! Your dovetails look fantastic!. Are the tray sides slopping?
Really great work!!!

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Wow, See I told you it looked great! :) You did a wonderful job. The pics were worth the wait :)

[Martin Shupe]

Martin,

Great project! Your dovetails look fantastic!. Are the tray sides slopping?
Really great work!!!

No, Mark, it's just my poor photography. The corners are 90 degree angles.

I think the plan called for the ends to be 1/2 inch thick and the sides are a little thinner...I think 7/16, but I can't put my hands on the book right now. That may contribute to the distortion.

[Paul Comi]

That's really beautiful. I am going to make one like it for our den to mix with mission style furniture and mine will look nearly identical except without the curved side pieces. How did you layout and cut the hand holes?

[Warren White]

Hi Martin,
That looks great! Congratulations on a superb execution. The finish and the dovetails look fantastic. I agree on the change of placement of the tails.

Hope all is well with you and yours.

Warren White

[Martin Shupe]

Here's a more direct shot of one of the corners. If you look closely, you can see where I had to use a little epoxy mixed with sawdust to fill a couple cracks that were too big.

I try to make the space between the tails about 3/16 of an inch, but I made the bottom pin space about a quarter inch because I was worried about strength.

Maybe someday I can make them like Rob Cosman with just a sawblade width between tails.

[Mike Scoggins]

Martin,

That's really nice. You should be proud of the job you did on the dovetails, and I really like the color.

Great job!

Mike

[Martin Shupe]

That's really beautiful. I am going to make one like it for our den to mix with mission style furniture and mine will look nearly identical except without the curved side pieces. How did you layout and cut the hand holes?

Measure from the bottom where you want the handholds. Draw a line across the end to mark the bottom of the handhold, then draw another line one inch (original plan was about 3/4") above it. Figure out where you want the handholds to end, then draw vertical lines on each end. Using a one inch forstner bit in a drill press, drill holes to define the ends of the handhold. Now use a jigsaw to cut just to the waste side of your layout lines to connect the holes. I then put the end in a vise and used sandpaper wrapped around a flat file to clean up the straight portion, and a round file to blend the straight line with the round ends. Finally, I put a 1/8 inch round over bit in my router table and ran it around the inside and outside to blend the handholds into the sides. Then lots of sanding to make sure the inside end grain was smooth.

I hope that makes sense, but if it doesn't, let me know.

I think this project would look great in quartersawn curly white oak...if you don't have any, contact Mike Mastin at curlywoods.com and he can help you out.

[Martin Shupe]

Hi Martin,
That looks great! Congratulations on a superb execution. The finish and the dovetails look fantastic. I agree on the change of placement of the tails.

Hope all is well with you and yours.

Warren White

Thanks Warren...I just put the first coat of T&T on my Shaker couch tabletop. I still have to peg the joints and do final sanding on the bottom, but look for it to be completed in about a month, if I am lucky. Then I will finally finish the blanket chest. :eek:

[Mark Singer]

Martin,

The dovetails even at close range look great! The only thing now to improve is to cut tighter....tap together...pare the shiney spots...
In other words add a step or to and go a little slower. Those are excellent!

[Jerry Clark]

Great looking tray Martin, The color and curly really stand out, the dovetails are great in the picture.:eek:

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Beautiful work!

[Dan Gill]

Beautiful work, Martin. And I can't see the filled gap in the dovetails. Funny that we can always see things in our work that are apparent to nobody else.

[Jon Olson]

Fun project and very well done. I love the end grain contrasting color!!! I think those DTs are awesome and even up close it would be very hard pressed for anyone other then an expert DT master to see an issue.

Great Project!!

jon

[Jim Becker]

Martin!! You must be practicing dovetails during those long cockpit hours over large bodies of water... ;) Of course, that's probably hard with a plastic saw... :D

Seriously, Wonderful! I really like that tray.

[Tyler Howell]

Martin, Well done!:cool:

[Brad Schmid]

Very Nice Martin! Great job on the dovetails and the finish.
Brad

[Dan Forman]

Martin---The trey is superb. The dovetails look great, the has nice figure, finish is well done. I'm sure you will get a lot of comments at those pot lucks.

The "curved sides" are likely the result of using a wide angle lens for close ups. If you step back a few and use a bit of zoom, things will straighten out.

Dan

[Alan Turner]

Martin,
That is a very tidy piece of work. Good job!

[Dave Anderson NH]

A nice piece of work Martin and I'm sure your wife will find a lot to use it for-- probably more than just as a silver caddy. I love figured woods. Aren't you glad you popped the grain with the oil?

[Roy Wall]

Martin,

Great idea to make the tray a logical size for todays kitchen technology!!!

Finish is beautiful and the DT's look Fantastic!!! Great, great job!!!

[Steve Inniss]

Matin, That's a wonderful piece. Your dovetails look beautiful. -Steve

[Pam Niedermayer]

Very, very nice, Martin. How about more info about the bottom, such as thickness, is it in a groove, how thick a groove, etc.

Pam

[John Motzi]

Hi Martin,

Very nice work! I really like the dovetails and the overall design.

JM

[Martin Shupe]

Very, very nice, Martin. How about more info about the bottom, such as thickness, is it in a groove, how thick a groove, etc.

Pam

Pam,

The bottom is 3/8 inch thick, as it is resawed from a 4/4 board. This was the board I was trying to resaw in my MM16 post a while back. I resawed, then bookmatched glued it, then ran in through my drum sander to 3/8, and used a 3/8 dado buried in a tail for the joinery. After glue up, I had to use little 1/4 by 3/8 wooden plugs to fill the gap in the end of the tail, but they disappeared pretty well. Next time I need to get one of those special handplanes (witch's tooth?) and take the time to use a router instead of a tablesaw and do stopped dado's. (There is always room for improvement, and a new technique to incorporate.)

Thanks for asking, Pam. I'll try to find that book, so I can quote the title and page number in case someone wants plans.

[Roger Myers]

Martin,
Looks great..thanks for sharing the design and construction methods with us. Course I now have one more "I gotta build one of those" things on my to-do list :)
Really looks great, and those dovetails look fine!!
Roger

[Paul Comi]

Measure from the bottom where you want the handholds. Draw a line across the end to mark the bottom of the handhold, then draw another line one inch (original plan was about 3/4") above it. Figure out where you want the handholds to end, then draw vertical lines on each end. Using a one inch forstner bit in a drill press, drill holes to define the ends of the handhold. Now use a jigsaw to cut just to the waste side of your layout lines to connect the holes. I then put the end in a vise and used sandpaper wrapped around a flat file to clean up the straight portion, and a round file to blend the straight line with the round ends. Finally, I put a 1/8 inch round over bit in my router table and ran it around the inside and outside to blend the handholds into the sides. Then lots of sanding to make sure the inside end grain was smooth.

I hope that makes sense, but if it doesn't, let me know.



Martin - thanks a million. I asked someone another time how they made them and they said they just used a scroll saw. If you've ever tried to make precision holes like yours with a scroll saw you know how hard that would be.

[Marc Hills]

I agree on the change of placement of the tails.

Martin:

That is just exquisite. Now I want to try one of those. I can predict my dovetails won't look nearly that nice as yours however.

Just for discussion's sake I'm going to be a bit of a contrarian and say I think the tails should have been left on the end pieces and the pins should be kept on the long sides.

I'll preface my rationale by saying that I know, as does Martin, that it doesn't really make a wit of difference given what such a tray would likely be used for today, unless maybe you use one to carry around some Civil War era lead grape shot.

But this is a Shaker design right? And the Shakers were nothing if not utilitarian, so I bet they thought this through.

Traditionally the great virtue of the DT joint (besides aesthetics) is it's mechanical strength. From a design point of view, I'd think that you'd want to orient the dovetails such that their mechanical advantage is arrayed against the direction of most severe tensive forces the joint is likely to encounter. Holding the tray with the hand grips would tend to assist the joint in staying together because I think a person would more likely add compression to the structure, rather than tension.

The long sides, on the other hand, would receive no such biomechanical advantage. Since the dovetail joint is strongest along the same plane as the tails, I would have kept them on the end pieces to better capture the long sides.

I now invite members to tell me I'm either full of malarky (possibly) or that I'm thinking about this way too hard (highly likely).

[Mike Scoggins]

Marc,


I now invite members to tell me I'm either full of malarky (possibly) or that I'm thinking about this way too hard (highly likely).

First, let me say you're a brave man to lob that one out there like that. :D No, I don't think your'e full of malarky. :) And, I believe your logic is technically correct regarding the orientation of the dovetails. From a practical standpoint, and as you've already acknowledged with "it doesn't really make a wit of difference," I don't think it matters unless Martin or his bride has some really heavy dish that I don't know about for those church pot lucks (and I've been to a bunch of 'em)! ;)

Mike

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Martin...beautiful piece! Great job on those dovetails.

[Gene Collison]

Nice job Martin, really nice. Are your dovetails macine cut? either way really beautiful.

Gene

[Martin Shupe]

Nice job Martin, really nice. Are your dovetails macine cut? either way really beautiful.

Gene

Hand cut, Gene...and thanks for the compliment.

[Martin Shupe]

Martin:

That is just exquisite. Now I want to try one of those. I can predict my dovetails won't look nearly that nice as yours however.

Just for discussion's sake I'm going to be a bit of a contrarian and say I think the tails should have been left on the end pieces and the pins should be kept on the long sides.


Marc,

You have made some valid points, but I reversed the dovetail layout because Kelly Mehler once said (on a blanket chest project) that it looks better to have the tails on the longest side. I like the way it turned out, but the picture of the one Kerry Pierce made (in the book I can't find right now) looks very nice as well.

I was more concerned about the strength of the bottom. According to Kerry Piece, the original bottom was nailed on. That gave me visions of a hot casserole dish hitting the floor. :eek: So instead I used the dado technique I already described for Pam. Being a Shaker purist, I was more concerned about changing the bottom than I was about reversing the dovetails.

I am sure I will make another one of these, and perhaps I will take your suggestion and put the tails back the way they should be.

Thanks for your kind words.

[Jerry Palmer]

Pics look pretty sharp at this end. You must have a hi-res monitor. Anything above 75 dpi is wasted on regular monitors.

DTs look great, if you hadn't mentioned the gap filling, I probably would not have noticed.

[Jason Tuinstra]

Martin, very, very nice! Elegant simplicity.

I can tell that you've been hanging around CHB lately. I know how he loves using qs cherry. And then to have figured qs cherry - very nice!

The bottom looks perfect as well. I agree (as a Pastor and a woodworker :p ) with your decision to put the bottom in a dado. The Shakers, with their dumbwaiters/food elevators didn't have to worry like we do at our potlucks :D

Out of curiosity, why did you go the epoxy route instead of thin slices of cherry? Do you find the color match to be better, or that it's just easier? Fortunately, you didn't need to do much to those dovetails. They look great! You're really getting the hang of it. Good for you.

[Martin Shupe]

Martin, very, very nice! Elegant simplicity.

Out of curiosity, why did you go the epoxy route instead of thin slices of cherry? Do you find the color match to be better, or that it's just easier? Fortunately, you didn't need to do much to those dovetails. They look great! You're really getting the hang of it. Good for you.

Jason,

Glad you liked it. Thanks for the compliments.

I did put a thin slice in one dovetail, but, thankfully, most of the gaps were really too small for anything but epoxy. If you could hold the project in your hands, you could pick out the pin with the slice next to it, due to, like you said, lack of color match. On the other hand, the epoxy mixed with cherry sawdust just looks like a glue line that is a little thick. I like the epoxy better, and I'll try to keep the gaps small enough so that will be my primary fix.

I do have one recommendation...use blue tape, and tape off any areas that don't need epoxy. That will greatly reduce your sanding time. Also, I tried to use hide glue mixed with sawdust on the blanket chest that is still in work...trust me, epoxy works much better.

[Jim Becker]

I did put a thin slice in one dovetail, but, thankfully, most of the gaps were really too small for anything but epoxy. If you could hold the project in your hands, you could pick out the pin with the slice next to it, due to, like you said, lack of color match. On the other hand, the epoxy mixed with cherry sawdust just looks like a glue line that is a little thick. I like the epoxy better, and I'll try to keep the gaps small enough so that will be my primary fix.

Martin, did you have any issue with oil absorbtion due to the epoxy?

On the slivers, I really had great results with inserting them at an angle to the dovetail so that they showed end-grain all around. This blended transparently with both sides of the joint and took the oil the same way. And since the slivers were from the same wood as the project, there was no color difference.

[Martin Shupe]

Martin, did you have any issue with oil absorbtion due to the epoxy?

On the slivers, I really had great results with inserting them at an angle to the dovetail so that they showed end-grain all around. This blended transparently with both sides of the joint and took the oil the same way. And since the slivers were from the same wood as the project, there was no color difference.

No issues as far as I can tell. It just looks like a glue line.

[Jason Tuinstra]

On the slivers, I really had great results with inserting them at an angle to the dovetail so that they showed end-grain all around. This blended transparently with both sides of the joint and took the oil the same way. And since the slivers were from the same wood as the project, there was no color difference.

Jim, that's what I do as well, and that's my preferred method. I've never tired epoxy, but I have tried regular glue with saw dust. I use this in other areas where using slivers won't work - like small gaps on half-blind dovetailed drawers or any other area those nasty gaps may show themselves.

[Paul Comi]

Martin, I've been practicing my hand dovetail technique and I'm up to building a tray like this now. It would make a good project that shouldn't take too long and I like the look of it as much today as when I first saw your post months ago.

What kind of wood was used for the sides? As far as the bottom, I guess I could resaw some 1/16" veneer out of the material and use 1/2" whatever (mdf, ply or even particle board) and set the bottom into a rabbetted dado.

[Martin Shupe]

Paul,

The entire tray was made from quartersawn curly cherry. The bottom is resawn and bookmatched from the same material as the sides, so it is a little under 3/8 thick. I left a little room in the dados for expansion, and used "spaceballs" to dampen the panel so it would not make noise. I did not "stop" the dados (dadoes?), so I had to put a small "plug" in to fill the 3/8 by 3/8 holes.

I am not sure if you have a local source for this type of wood, so if you don't, try www.curlywoods.com. Mike Mastin is honest and will do his best to help you find what you need.

Another option I have considered is curly maple, which would look just as nice, I am sure.

Be sure to post pics when you are done, and enjoy the journey.

[Keel McDonald]

Nice dovetails!!! They really jump out at you. I love the Shaker style pieces.

[Gail O'Rourke]

Gorgeous, I really like them and you did a great job.

[Paul Comi]

Paul,

The entire tray was made from quartersawn curly cherry. The bottom is resawn and bookmatched from the same material as the sides, so it is a little under 3/8 thick. I left a little room in the dados for expansion, and used "spaceballs" to dampen the panel so it would not make noise. I did not "stop" the dados (dadoes?), so I had to put a small "plug" in to fill the 3/8 by 3/8 holes.

I am not sure if you have a local source for this type of wood, so if you don't, try www.curlywoods.com (http://www.curlywoods.com). Mike Mastin is honest and will do his best to help you find what you need.

Another option I have considered is curly maple, which would look just as nice, I am sure.

Be sure to post pics when you are done, and enjoy the journey.

I'm going to check Bohnhoff Lumber first (plug, plug - hey Walt remember me when I need to order some wood!). I showed my wife the picture and she wants me to make the curved handle parts of the sides out of purpleheart so the tray is a mix of material. I don't know... I really like the simplicity of design the way you did it. Thanks for the quick response

[Paul Comi]

Maybe someday I can make them like Rob Cosman with just a sawblade width between tails.

Here's a few progress pics of the one I have been making. Tonite I glued it up. Tomorrow I plane down the dovetailed corners and think about the finish. I love the look you got and need to reread this thread to find out what you did. Mine is paduk with purpleheart. The dovetails were cut with just a sawblade between tails which is my favorite look. This was my first hardwood project as I have been busy between shop projects and home improvement this year. I cut veneers for the bottom on both sides and the bottom is in a rabbeted dado cut by hand. Getting the bottom to fit while assembling the thing for the first time while the glue is setting up was a nerve wracking experience to say the least. Our den has mission style furniture and this tray is going to sit on our sofa table with some interesting potted plants in it.

By the way, when I made my handles what I did was drill the outside holes using a forstner bit in the drill press and then connect the dots on the scroll saw. I cleaned up the handles using a couple files and used files to soften the edges at the top and around the the handles on the end boards.

[Martin Shupe]

Paul,

You have done an excellent job! I like your dovetails better than mine...I need to work on mine some more. I am sure your wife is pleased.

I would like to see:

1) Larger pics (I am not that good at posting pics, so I don't know how to do that, especially since the site uses thumbnails now)

2) More pics (such fine work deserves them)

3) Start a new thread....I don't want someone skipping over your new project because they have seen enough of mine!;)

I know what you mean about glue up stress. I started using hide glue about a year ago, and that reduces my stress during all glue ups significantly.

I am honored that you were inspired by my work, and now you have surpassed it! Great work and thanks for sharing.

Anyone else want to build one of these? Paul has picked up the gauntlet and is ready to pass it on.:D

[Paul Comi]

Paul,

You have done an excellent job! I like your dovetails better than mine...I need to work on mine some more. I am sure your wife is pleased.

I would like to see:

1) Larger pics (I am not that good at posting pics, so I don't know how to do that, especially since the site uses thumbnails now)

2) More pics (such fine work deserves them)

3) Start a new thread....I don't want someone skipping over your new project because they have seen enough of mine!;)

I know what you mean about glue up stress. I started using hide glue about a year ago, and that reduces my stress during all glue ups significantly.

I am honored that you were inspired by my work, and now you have surpassed it! Great work and thanks for sharing.

Anyone else want to build one of these? Paul has picked up the gauntlet and is ready to pass it on.:D

Thank you for the kind words. Actually though mine is going to be a reminder of things I need to improve as I bring it into the house after finishing it. The reason I say that is that when I routed the slot to receive the rabbeted dado for the bottom, I stopped short of the ends of the tails because I didn't want that to show, but for some reason I couldn't get the dovetails together until I took a small chisel and got those out of the way. I ended up using some little pieces of wood with glue to fill them and a couple other chips I managed to get in the process and this morning I planed the dovetails down flat. There are still visible imperfections but I'm not going to pound on myself with this project. It was the first time I: resawed lumber for a project using my bandsaw for veneers and for thinning out the material for the sides and end boards, joined two different wood species into a single board, glued together a veneer side by side and to the panel itself, cut a rabbetted dado by hand... you get the idea. I now need to decide whether I'll finish up by scraping or if I'll do some sanding. If sanding is what you did, I'm leaning that way because the finish on yours is gorgeous.

[Martin Shupe]

Paul,

I did sand, but I hear scraping looks even nicer. I just need to learn how to do it.

FWIW, I cut my dados on a table saw, and didn't stop them. Then I plugged the holes with offcuts from the same board, and they blended in very well.

I think your tray looks wonderful, and, like you said, you learned many new techniques.

Hey, can you start a new thread and tell us how you like your lapsharp? I am thinking about buying one, but the $$$:eek: are holding me back. I saw on another forum where you bought one, and I don't know too many Creekers that have them, you may be the only one. Currently I am using Shapton stones.

Be sure to start a new thread of your tray when you are finished, I don't think anyone but you and me are looking at this one anymore.

Again, your work is exceptional.

[Paul Comi]

Paul,

Be sure to start a new thread of your tray when you are finished, I don't think anyone but you and me are looking at this one anymore.

Again, your work is exceptional.

New post started called My version of Martin's shaker serving tray (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26439)