Low Angle Jointer vs. Traditional Jointer For Shooting End Grain

[Jim Foster]

In a low angle jointer like LN, the frog is bed at 12 degrees, vs. 45 deg for the traditional jointer. The traditional jointer is bevel-down and uses a chip-breaker, the low angle is bevel-up. For a 30 deg bevel on the blade, this only results in a 3 deg difference in the angles the blade is meeting the wood. It seems like the traditional jointer with a properly set chip breaker may easily be as effective as a low angle jointer. Anyone use both and noticed differences in shooting end grain?

[Zach Dillinger]

Jim, you've hit the nail on the head as far as bedding angle, but there is more to it than that, at least in theory. A bevel-up plane iron is supported by the bed of the plane, all the way to the cutting edge. On a bevel down plane, the actual cutting edge is held in space because the bevel itself prevents full bedding. This allows a minute amount of chatter. That's the theory. In practice, you can smooth endgrain quite nicely with a 55 deg smoothing plane as long as it is sharp. That's really all that matters, no matter what anyone says about bedding angles.

[David Weaver]

If you're shooting, the difference shouldn't be much if both are sharp.

At anything, the difference shouldn't be much if both are sharp. Low angle planes always feel a tiny bit more solid in end grain, maybe because the iron is supported all the way to the end at the bed, I don't know, but if you're looking at premium planes, they all have heavy irons and all will cut endgrain just fine.

The first time I made a cut across the end grain on a long panel with a LN jointer, I almost sold my LA jack plane.

[David Weaver]

Looks like i took about two minutes too long to reply!

[Chris Griggs]

In practice, you can smooth endgrain quite nicely with a 55 deg smoothing plane as long as it is sharp. That's really all that matters, no matter what anyone says about bedding angles.

Yep. With a sharp blade I notice very little difference. I don't even keep my LV low angle jack which I use almost exclusivity for shooting at a low angle because it works better on long grain that way (one the occasion i use it for that), and equally well on end grain as a low angle blade would - plus it has better edge retention at a higher angle. I think its at an included angle of about 45 degrees (so honed at about 33). IMHO the biggest advantage of shooting with a low angle plane over a BD plane is the fact that they are much easier to hold onto, since there is no frog to get in the way of your grip. If your going to purchase a jointer I would not base the decision on which one will shoot best unless that's its main intended purpose. Either will work just fine as a shooter so you should get the one that appeals to you for the majority of the work you will use it for.

[Zach Dillinger]

Looks like i took about two minutes too long to reply!

I type very quickly :)

[Don Dorn]

I have found that both work very well, but I prefer the BU because for me, they are so much easier to hold for shooting.

[Paul Murphy]

My LV low angle jointer is 12+25=37, and so 45-37=8? I would agree the traditional plane when sharp can handle end grain, but the first time I used the low angle plane on end grain I was delighted by how easily the blade sliced the grain. For my money there is a significant advantage in end grain for the low angle plane when the blade is sharpened to 25 degrees.

[Jim Matthews]

If you're only buying one plane, the LN LA 62 can do many jobs including shooting endgrain.
I think the size of the plane body more important than the bevel side of the blade.

If you can't hold the blade square to the reference surface, a sharp blade will still be an alignment challenge.

The entire point of shooting boards is to limit the degrees of freedom in play.

[James Owen]

A LN #8 jointer with a sharp iron will do a very nice job of trimming end grain; that extra mass seems to help.
On the other hand, a LN #7-1/2 LA jointer with a sharp iron will also do a very nice job of trimming end grain.
In my experience, with everything else being equal, the sharpness of the iron affects the quality and ease of cutting more than the specific angle of attack......
Take your pick...as long as the iron is sharp, they will both work quite well.....

[Dhananjay Nayakankuppam]

I have heard that conventional wisdom says end grain work like shooting seems to benefit from 3 things - mass, skewed blade and a low angle. It's funny but no plane seems to offer all three - the LN shoot board plane has a skew and mass, the LV BU and the LN mitre plane have mass and a low angle. However, (as the mugger said to his victim) a lot of this is trumped by a sharp blade. Cheers, DJ

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I think effectively skewing and angle end up being the same thing - if the blade is skewed in relation to the direction of travel, it presents a lower effective angle to the workpiece. Certainly doing both (lowering the angle and skewing the blade) would result in an even lower effective angle, I guess.

[Chris Griggs]

Interestingly. The LN No. 9 isn't even low angle. Its bevel up but the bed is 20 degree at to that an A2 blade that holds its edge best at 30 degrees and you have an included angle of 50 degrees. Despite this, the plane works BEAUTIFULLY.