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View Full Version : Mechanics--any ideas on the 2009 F150 power steering hose?



Matt Meiser
12-17-2012, 9:49 PM
I discovered that the power steering pressure hose on my 2009 F150 is leaking. Not sure how long its been leaking--i didn't notice it on the last oil change but thats been months. Apparently this part is on back order because the supplier went bankrupt. No aftermarket part is available. Any options other than waiting and hoping it doesn't blow? I've read of people waiting months.

I've read "take the hose to a place that makes custom hoses." Are they really going to be able to match the ends which are not standard threaded ends? Or can they reuse the metal parts? I'd REALLY hate to tear it apart to find that they can't do anything for me since both ends look to be a bear to access for removal.

Steve Meliza
12-17-2012, 10:16 PM
This is a very common vehicle so it seems likely you could find a part somewhere unless this issue has been around long enough to clear out the stock. I'd check every parts source I could think of (including dealers in other states that will ship parts), check eBay, and then call up the wrecking yards. Winter is here so keep calling the wrecking yards after every storm. Sometimes the fittings can be re-used so yes, call a custom ship and see if it is even an option. If all else fails park it by the road the Ford dealership owner takes to work with a sign that says Ford can't supply parts so you've purchased a Chevy/Dodge/etc then go get you a $1000 pickup that can get you by till your truck is fixed.

Matt Meiser
12-17-2012, 11:01 PM
Supposedly there are 2500-3500 (tel:2500-3500) people waiting for the part if you can believe what you read on Internet forums. Used might work to get me by if it gets worse. NTSB has quite a few complaints on it so hopefully something will happen there soon. I also have an inside source doing some checking for me.

Steve Meliza
12-18-2012, 12:19 AM
Thankfully there isn't a shortage on '06 6.0L EGR valves. While I was at the dealership today picking up my truck I noticed a sign saying they were looking for trade-ins on pretty much all '08 and newer trucks. It's a bit extreme, but if you had been thinking about trading in soon then they might take it.

I just did a quick check and see people complaining of this starting about a year ago. What an astonishing failure to provide support for a nearly new vehicle that is having a part fail prematurely with pretty high frequency.

Brian Elfert
12-18-2012, 7:28 AM
Why would the NTSB be involved unless failing steering hoses are causing loss of steering and potential crashes?

As far as Steve's comment, dealers ALWAYS says they are looking for trade-ins. I've heard they make more money on a used car than on a new car.

Jerome Stanek
12-18-2012, 7:46 AM
What makes it so special. Take it to a hydraulic hose repair shop and have them make one up. Also race car suppliers may be able to make a custom hose.

Brian Elfert
12-18-2012, 8:16 AM
What makes it so special. Take it to a hydraulic hose repair shop and have them make one up. Also race car suppliers may be able to make a custom hose.

According to Matt's first post the connecters appear to be custom. Ford may have also used non-standard hose diameter. I think companies do this on purpose so you have to get replacement parts from them.

Our Boy Scout troop has six Coleman three burner propane stoves. The hoses fail pretty often when abused by preteen and teenage boys. I tried to get a local propane place to fix the hoses, but Coleman used a non-standard hose diameter. Coleman wants $50 for a new hose for a stove that only cost $81 new! (The stoves are now discontinued and we really like them other than the hoses.)

Matt Meiser
12-18-2012, 8:31 AM
Why would the NTSB be involved unless failing steering hoses are causing loss of steering and potential crashes?

Apparently there have been reports of that. Then again there could be some "normal" hose failures mixed in with leaky ones. There's obviously a certain percentage of hydraulic hoses that just fail due to defects in the hose or external damage by road debris, etc. The leaky ones it appears that they leak from the crimp area between the steel sections and the rubber hose.

The pump end appears to be a threaded connection but the rack end looks like it is held in place by small plate--can't see if that's a clamp or part of the hose. Actually, really couldn't see it at all last night--more like felt. Ironically that's the end that's probably easier to get at but I just can get to where I can see it clearly and I didn't have a small mirror handy or enough light to use it.

Matt Meiser
12-18-2012, 9:07 AM
I talked to someone at my dealership this morning because the reason I discovered this leak is because I also have a leak at the transmission's electrical connection which is another common issue covered by a TSB. That's covered under the powertrain warranty so I'm letting them do that one for sure. He also said there's an aftermarket hose available but couldn't (or wouldn't) tell me who. I know its not available through Napa, O'Reily, Autozone, or Advance Auto. I've got one more place I can try when they open this morning.

In the mean time, he said drive it and keep an eye on the PS fluid level. Nice.

Jerome Stanek
12-18-2012, 10:12 AM
What engine does it have and is it 4wd

Matt Meiser
12-18-2012, 10:18 AM
2wd, 4.6l 24v

Matt Meiser
12-18-2012, 3:39 PM
If I can't find a new one or a a "close enough" part (I read there may be one from Napa but couldn't find any info on it) I have a place that can "probably" either build a whole new one or reuse my metal parts and fix mine. Problem with that whole idea is that I have to tear it apart and take it to them to see. Then as long as they can do it they can probably turn it around same or next day. I'm going to make some calls to junk yards -- err Automotive Recyclers--to see if I can a good one I can put on for now or bad (but not wreck-mangled) to take them for copy/rebuild. What a mess.

How are hydraulic hoses crimped to metal lines? I see crimped on metal shells around the hose. Are those part of the hard lines or a separate piece that's crimped over the metal line and hose?

Jeff Monson
12-18-2012, 5:13 PM
How are hydraulic hoses crimped to metal lines? I see crimped on metal shells around the hose. Are those part of the hard lines or a separate piece that's crimped over the metal line and hose?

I'd think finding the ends to make a new hose would be hard. The "crimped" part of the line is actually part of the metal end. I've never seen them reused as the rubber part of the line must fit inside the new end. Once it is crimped it cannot be reused. Doesnt look like the aftermarket has started stocking this part yet?? It sucks to have to be dependant on the dealer for a backordered part. My experience with Ford and backorders is usually pretty good though. If it's not a severe leak I'd try wait it out, they may have a new one for you sooner than you expect.

Matt Meiser
12-18-2012, 7:45 PM
One other question--anyone have access to a service manual for this thing that can get me instructions? Looks straight forward but its always good to check.

Steve Meliza
12-18-2012, 8:02 PM
If you can't find a manual and don't want to pay $180 for a copy you can subscribe to an online version of it with Helm Inc (http://www.helminc.com/helm/Result.asp?Style=helm&Mfg=FMC&Make=FRD&Model=F150&Year=2009&Category=1&Keyword=&Module=&selected%5Fmedia=)

Matt Meiser
12-18-2012, 10:26 PM
Thanks Steve--didn't know that was available. I've got that bookmarked for future reference!

Jerome Stanek
12-19-2012, 8:09 AM
I go to our public library and they have online links to factory repair manuals

Matt Meiser
12-21-2012, 12:44 AM
Gets more interesting. I stopped at a small town Ford dealer in mid-Michigan today on my way through town. Parts definitely hard to get. More so now since he said that Ford apparently recalled any of these hoses dealers may have had in stock this morning. However he did give me a part number that supposedly will fit but looking at the drawing, even if the ends fit, there's no place for the power steering pressure switch.

Joe Angrisani
12-21-2012, 9:54 AM
I checked with my major aftermarket parts supplier, and they do not list the 4.6L's hose. They don't even show it in the pipeline (which generally has info about 2-3 months out), so it doesn't look, at this point, like anyone outside the Ford supply chain is tooling up for it. Sorry. I was hoping to PM you with a hose, but that ain't happening.

Maybe it's the Mayan's fault.....

Matt Meiser
12-21-2012, 12:01 PM
Well, the good news is that I drove what would generally be a lot for me in a week and the level in the reservoir only dropped about 1/16" to 1/8" so the leak is very slow. I think I'm going to take the advise that now 2 dealerships gave me and keep an eye on it. I also think I'll place and order for the part at the closest dealership and at least reserve my place waiting for a new one.

If I had to as a temporary measure, can I run without the PS pressure switch? As I understand it bumps the engine RPM up slightly when the pressure goes up at full lock to prevent an engine stall. Obviously that could occur when parking, but not likely a significant safety issue.

Jason Roehl
12-21-2012, 12:08 PM
Can you see the leak? Can you get something over it? I'd at least try silicone tape (not sticky, but sticks to itself), followed by a larger-diameter piece of rubber hose slit down the length and clamped over the leak (put 2 clamps side by side right over the leak).

Matt Meiser
12-21-2012, 12:32 PM
It appears to leak at the crimps where rubber meets steel. I read one theory that they can't handle the pressure at full lock so I've tried being conscious of that but with a full size extended cab truck in most parking lots that can be easy to hit. Basically when I discovered it the entire rubber sections were coated in an oil/dirt mix. At least the leak seems to be slow enough that the accumulated dirt soaks it up :rolleyes:

Jeff Monson
12-21-2012, 12:41 PM
If I had to as a temporary measure, can I run without the PS pressure switch?

Yes you can, we have done that in the past on Chevy's that we could not find the exact hose for.

Joe Angrisani
12-21-2012, 12:57 PM
.....At least the leak seems to be slow enough that the accumulated dirt soaks it up :rolleyes:

We called that "sweating". Just keep an eye on it, as you've been told. I wouldn't waste time with a band-aid fix. Not sure where a Ford system runs, but it's hard to contain the high pressure side.

David Cefai
12-23-2012, 4:21 PM
While I'm not familiar with American vehicles, could the "non-standard" fittings be metric ones? if so you may be able to source your hose from overseas.
Just a thought.

Matt Meiser
12-23-2012, 4:32 PM
One end looks to be a small plate.

Jim Koepke
12-23-2012, 5:35 PM
Have you tried these folks?

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/

The last repair on my truck was using a part from them at a very reasonable price.

jtk

Joe Angrisani
12-23-2012, 5:49 PM
One end looks to be a small plate.

My guess would be that connection is sealed with an o-ring. Somebody with specific Ford knowledge can pipe in, but I'd bet an o-ring is held down by that plate.

Jim Koepke
12-23-2012, 5:53 PM
While I'm not familiar with American vehicles, could the "non-standard" fittings be metric ones? if so you may be able to source your hose from overseas.
Just a thought.

This reminds me of the days of owning Volks Wagens. People that didn't know better would replace the fuel line hose with American 1/4" hose. VW used 6mm hose. The hose would slip off and could cause a nasty fire. Many people called it a design flaw in the VW. To me it was always a brain flaw in people who didn't realize the rest of the world was metric.

Instead of sourcing the hose from overseas, you may be able to purchase it from a foreign car dealer.

In my area there are two equipment stores that sell and make custom hydraulic hoses. One uses Parker fittings the other, if my recollection is correct, uses Gates. If this was my problem and all other sources have been exhausted, I would at least give them a call. If there are a lot of people out there looking for the part, one of the local hydraulic shops has most likely already been asked. Either they can or they can't. If they can, they may want to make a lot of them for the local independent repair shops that would love to do the work on these.

Somewhere there has to be a design drawing on this.

Also, searching the internet is easier with complete model information and a part number.

There are many avenues to results on this kind of issue. A loud lawyer who will work pro bono just to make a name could be a great ally.

jtk

Jason Roehl
12-23-2012, 7:07 PM
I bet Henry Ford is rolling over in his grave. When a company has the opportunity to use common, off-the-shelf parts, they should.

Matt Meiser
12-26-2012, 12:20 PM
Well, I'm headed down to pick the truck up from fixing the transmission leak. If anyone wants to know why I only take my vehicles to the dealer for warranty work this is a perfect example. They have. had the truck for 4 hours and the only thing they did was replace some door handle clips on a recall. They can't find the leak. I suppose it got a pretty good washing from some heavy rains we had last week but still, what the heck? Guess the puddle on my garage floor and the drips from the crossmember came from nowhere! I suspect they want me to drive it another 4000 miles until the warranty is up.

They did confirm that all power steering hoses in dealer inventories have been recalled.

Matt Meiser
12-26-2012, 3:09 PM
And so I get there and in the mean time the tech has "checked again" for the leak and doesn't see anything. I ask for the service manager who has them put it on a lift and she can't see it either. They ask me to come out and show me how everything is dry. I take the flashlight and put it right on the wet spot below the transmission electrical connector. Then the tech gets mouthy and says there's no TSB and asks me for the number since I know all about it. I didn't have it obviously and they finally find it and tell me that the repair is only covered under the 12mo/12000mi warranty like wiper blades or fan belts which obviously makes no sense. During the drive home a fairly quick call to Ford confirms they are full of...well, you know. I've got an appointment for Friday at another dealership to actually do the fix. It took them almost a minute to confirm that repair is covered under powertrain warranty. What a waste of a day.

Jason Roehl
12-27-2012, 6:39 PM
Ford corporate was supposed to have "fixed" that dealership problem. I've been there too, Matt. I had an older truck with the dual tanks and had the crossover/transfer problem. When I called our local dealership about it, they claimed there was no TSB for it. When I provided the number for the extended TSB, they quit arguing with me and fixed it under warranty. I guess your particular dealership is just digging in their heels a little more. Ford service had a very bad reputation just a few years ago, but apparently pressure from Ford HQ has not yet reached everyone. I hope you get that worked out--I HATE leaking vehicles. I'd rather they spend a few more bucks on more reliable parts related to getting the vehicle down the road than another driver-distracting gizmo designed to last a day longer than the warranty.

Matt Meiser
12-28-2012, 3:00 PM
Well the new dealership didn't have any "trouble" finding the transmission leak and should be done soon. They also declined to flush and replace the rest of the fluid in the system (at my expense) saying it was in great shape and would be a waste to do it now. Second time (between 2 cars) I've asked someone to do that in the last year and been told that it wasn't necessary.

My wife was talking to my MIL's next door neighbor and had a similar bad experience with the same dealership. I've had bad luck with dealerships in general around here. The smaller GM and Ford dealers we've used in the past that were good to deal with both closed. One local Ford dealer has TWICE performed unauthorized work on my vehicles thinking they could talk (or scare in one case) me into doing something. At least they didn't try charging me after I declined but they sure put the pressure on to get me to authorize the work. Another Ford dealer and GM dealer both just totally messed up simple jobs related to accessories on new vehicles. And before someone says its an domestic car thing--I've heard horrible things about the local Honda and Toyota dealers too. Staff seems to just rotate among them.

Luckily I can do some stuff and we've got a great independent shop only a mile from the house.