Recreate a molding

[Jim Stewart]

I have a molding that I would like to recreate for a Spice Box project. I have attached a picture of the molding I want to duplicate..or at least come close to. The photo of the molding is lousy, but you can see the outline of the shape in pencil. The cove I could do on a machine. The other is not a true radius but flattens as it reaches the top of the molding. How can I do this? I have thought of creating the 1/2" cove on a router table and then make a scraper and put it in a block for a guide registered to the cove to reproduce the remaining curve. A second possibility, I have a molding plane that I could try to modify to do that task as well. I am not sure how I would proceed with the second idea. Any suggestions on how to proceed would be appreciated. Jim

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I'm a big fan of molding planes, but if I'm reading you right, it's only the convex part you can't do with your current tooling, and you aren't doing a huge run of this, why not get as close as you can with the tooling you have and then use a flat plane to flatten out the curve some? Mark where the new end of the curve is with a marking gauge and plane down to that line, then fair the curve with a plane. A scratch stock like you suggest could get things more uniform if you need that last little bit of trim, but with a good eye and some finesse, you could get that curve how you want it with a block or bench plane. A stiff template could help you make things good down the length. If you run your molding long enough to cut the whole thing out of one piece, the joints should be pretty spot on.

[Ryan Baker]

It's sort of a Grecian cove and bead. Based on the picture and drawing, the cove isn't constant radius either. Both the cove and bead change radius. You won't easily find a bit to cut that with a router. If you have a set of hollows and rounds available, you can fake it by using two planes, for the smaller and larger radii, and blending the cuts together. That takes some practice to do well. With some searching, you might find an old plane that has a useful profile. Or you could make a plane to match the profile. If you want to go that route and haven't made profile planes before, you might want to check out the DVDs from Larry Williams or Todd Herli.

If you don't have much of the profile to make, you might consider making a scratch stock / profiled scraper, which would be a lot less work than making a plane.

[Jim Stewart]

Thanks to both of you. Good call on the changing radii of the cove and bead. I would like to have a set of hollows and rounds I have been reading about making those on this site. I will likely get one of those videos. I saw some recommendations on a school but I would like to do that without going to a class.
I will likely try the scratch stock. I had not considered making a scratch stock for the entire piece but maybe that is the way to go.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I didn't look close enough to realize the cove changed radius as well. Good catch, Ryan.

I guess looking at it now, if that's a 1/2" radius, the molding's not huge, but still, if you go with a scratch stock, I'd remove as much material as you can prior to using it, even just rabbeting and chamfering things out with a table-saw or plough plane, or getting close with your router profile. I've removed large amounts of stock with scratch stocks before I knew any better. It's not fun. But you do get good at sharpening scratch stocks.

[Jim Stewart]

The molding is small. It is about an inch-square, maybe a little bigger. I should have put dimensions on the drawing. Another thing learned. I will try to remove as much stock as possible with planes before using the scratch stock. Maybe I will move a plough plane up to my next tool purchase. I now have a question about how to make this scratch stock. I made one once before out of a jointer knife. That scraper was a very simple pattern and I cut it on a grinder. For a scratch stock this large, I am thinking start with a scraper blade? I can grind a little bit and then complete this task with files? Also as far as sharpening I have gotten very good at sharpening flat scrapers. I can follow some of those techniques in sharpening a curved scraper, but not all of those that pertain to the narrow edge surface (I use 90 degree blocks for flat scrapers). I can put the scraper in a vise and prepare the edge with small stones. Not the precision that I am used in scraper sharpening, but I think it would scrape fairly well. Any advice appreciated. Jim

[William Adams]

Interesting.

I'm looking at a similar task, but am fortunate to have a Stanley 12-250 combination plane, but cursed in that I don't have all the irons --- I'm missing three of the fluting cutters, 1/2" (the one I need for the molding I need to make) and 3/16" and 1/4" (I do have a 3/8" fluting cutter along w/ all the others). They were available here: http://www.stanleytoolparts.com/flutingcutters.html (picture for the 1/2" cutter is wrong, which was part of why I didn't place the order) but went out of stock before I got 'round to ordering them.

Trying to avoid ordering anything on-line so as to maintain the domestic harmony quotient, so would welcome suggestions on alternate sources of tool steel I could grind down to make the cutters in question. I'm currently considering grinding down a 1/2" spade bit.... guess I'll try that this evening if nothing better comes up.

William

[Jim Matthews]

You could do this with Matt Bickford's help.

If it's the only molding you'll make - it will be cheaper to hire out.
Good molding planes don't come along every day.

http://musingsfrombigpink.blogspot.com/

[Zach Dillinger]

Jim, its hard to say for sure, but the top portion of the molding looks like a somewhat larger radius. If the cove is a 1/2, you might try a 1" hollow, should be a number 14 in the English system. Would get you close, and would save you a ton of scraping time.

What's the spice chest project?

[Jim Stewart]

Here are the pictures of a Spice Box that I started at a woodworking school and just finished. It is for my granddaughter. I have a second granddaughter that though she is quite young I want to complete a second one for her. The second one will be much the same as the first I think. I have some wonderful Cherry Crotchwood cut from the farm a few years ago that I can use. I also have some nice Curly Cherry that I may use for the door fronts.

I added the two boxes for my grandson...can't leave him out. All air dried wood from the farm. Jim

[Jim Stewart]

I have ordered the Larry Williams video on making hollows and rounds. I also saw that Lee Valley has some Japanese hollows and rounds. Anybody had experience with these tools?

[Jim Matthews]

I also saw that Lee Valley has some Japanese hollows and rounds. Anybody had experience with these tools?

I've tried them on for size, and they're only adequate.
Compared to the Old Street Tool or Matt Bickford products, they're inferior.
(There is a HUGE price to be paid for better performance.)

I would say that an antique from the local flea market with a replacement iron will perform well.

Before purchasing any set, see if there's a class that can be taken.
Moldings are not commonly used in my woodworking, so I can't justify expensive tooling.

If you're only making a few running feet, it's worth hiring out the production.

[Russell Sansom]

I'll chip in here. I've done a good deal of scratch molding, mostly in the 1/4 - 1/2" range for moldings around soundboards in clavichords and the rims for chess and backgammon boards. These are generally 4-8 feet in total length and have to be very precise and uniform to look good.

A scratch stock out of narrow steel has always worked fine for me. Scraper blade or 3/4" hack saw blade, for example. The beauty of this is you can simply copy the profile you want right onto the steel.

Mount the stock in a large, two-handed stock. It takes fairly heavy, uniform pressure to get a good strip of molding. Though it works OK, the Lie-NIelsen scratch stock is a hair small for my taste.
You have to pre-shape the work with nice square grooves and cutouts. A good place for table saw, plough plane, stair saw, etc. The scratch stock only has a fence and the forces you maintain with your body weight to keep it in place. Given the vagaries of grain flow, you need the physical limitations to keep the molding uniform and square. And you will get the wrong impression of scratch molding if you try to remove significant material with it.

For me, this is the most sensible way to make a single run length of molding. Waste can be 50% but with a little practice, and plenty of spare stock it's easy to get crisp, classy results.

[Jeff Heath]

That's a grecian ovolo. Instead of having a consistent radius for the cove and quarter round, you have an ellipse instead. Without having hollows and rounds, the best way to recreate it is by drawing the layout on each end of the board, and carrying pencil lines across the length of the face of the board. Then, you can sink the flats of the moulding with a rabbet/shoulder plane, and remove as much material as possible with the planes you have. A shoulder plane of 1/2" or 5/8" width would be able to remove 95% of the material, and the rest can be removed to eye with scratch stock or with a scraper with a radius.

Believe it or not, a broken coke bottle can make an excellent scraper and you'll usually get plenty of shapes and radii to choose from. Use duct tape to tape off the non cutting edges to keep from drawing blood.

Jeff