Festool vacuum decision...

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Vacuum pros,

I am thinking about buying a CT26 for various jobs around the woodshop and house. First job would be to be a dust catcher for a construction chop saw. The saw is outside, but it makes a mess and some Hardie dust. Beyond that, I am not really sure what I would use it for beyond misc stuff.

I don't really sand my projects very often, mostly solid wood that is handplaned to a finish ready state. I don't need a track saw, and I don't like routers very much. Shaper and handplanes get most of those jobs too. The Domino is interesting, but I have a slot mortiser. That all being said, I don't expect to buy many more Festool products. They seem over priced if used to supplement an existing working system, and the whole Festool system is apparently not one that I need.

The question is, is the Festool vacuum, worth the huge expense if it is probably not going to be hooked to a Festool tool?

I come up with about $950 for the vacuum and accessories. I want HEPA and auto start. I like Systainers. But, I can also soup up another vacuum for less $. Festool will hold value better though. Thoughts?

[Gordon Eyre]

I have always found my hobbies to be more rewarding if I have quality tools. That said I find Festool as a brand to be outside of what I find to be reasonable. Of course I said the same thing about Lie Nielson planes until I bought a couple of them. :)

[Thomas S Stockton]

Steve
I really like most of Festool's offerings but I think in your case you might want to see what else is out there. Bosch, fein and porter cable all offer nice vacs so I would price them out. You might also want to look at some of the shop vacs at the local big box store and if you want it to switch on with the tool sears sells a box that does that for $20.
Tom

[Matt Meiser]

I bought a used CT22 for the house this past summer and also bought the cleaning kit for it. Before that we had a Ridgid vac that lived in the garage. My wife was using the new one one day during the kitchen project and spontaneously mentioned that she "LOVES this vacuum!" Her reasons--low noise level, nice tools, much easier to maneuver, bags--all the things that Festool touts and she doesn't know that.

[Rod Sheridan]

Matt beat me to it.

Half the time my Festool vac is in the house, doing household vacuuming.

I guarantee that it will become the "go to" machine if you buy it...........Rod.

[Damon Stathatos]

I kicked around the idea of getting the Dewalt Hepa Vac (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=31839&site=ROCKLER) 'on sale' at Rockler. I checked out the specs (noise level, cfm, hose size, etc.) and they all were comparable to the Festool. I'm sure the build quality would be much better on the Festool but for what you're talking about, this one is much cheaper. There's free shipping through Sunday at Rockler as well so, just a bit of icing on that cake. In the end, I decided that I really didn't need a hepa vac (my dynabrades aren't set up for dust collection) so punted on the whole idea. Anyway, thought you may want to check it out.

[Dominic Carpenter]

I was going through the same dilemma. I tend to research my purchases to death and am fortunate to be able to afford some nice tools. Having a clean, dust free shop is very important to me (my son has asthma), and I think that Festool has an absolutely great product. It looks fantastic and has great features. After saving the CT 26 and the ETS 125 sander in my Rockler basket for a week ($900), I decided that unless I was using this system to make a living it was not really something I needed. I went with the DeWalt as well for $219. The DeWalt should serve my needs and it can be used with my other machines without modifying the dust connections. If the DeWalt doesn't meet my expectations than I'll go to the Festool. I'll give my review of the DeWalt adjustable suction vac once I have used it for a few weeks. Good luck!

[Ray Newman]

I 'dunno' how well the Fe$tool vac, or any vac for that matter, will work with a "construction chop saw". Dust collection on chop saws and SCMS is not the best from what I have seen and experienced.

I have a CT33 Fe$tool vac and TS 55 track saw that I purchased about 7 years ago. The vac works very well when hooked up to the Fe$tool track saw and various other manufacturers' sanders. Very good equipment and the dollar had a higher value so the purchase price was not that high compared to today's exchange rates.

From what you describe, I would be hesistant to recommend the Fe$tool vacuum. I think you could probably find and cheaper and just as effective vacuum around that will fits your needs.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Thanks all for the input. I was not aware that Dewalt even existed, but looks really good!

That being said, the plot has thickened a bit. I have been offered a "deal" on a stack of used Festools, a Domino, a saw, and a trim router. I don't need this stuff right now, but it's a good enough price to make me wonder about starting a Festool collection...

I guess that would change the question fundamentally.

[Greg R Bradley]

WHICH "construction chop saw"? If it is a slider the only decent way to get dust collection that is worth talking about is Festool Kapex or Makita LS0714 7.5" unit. Several 10" and a few 12" non-sliders such as Dewalt 10" non slider work OK with a vacuum.

Other than that you need a hood and a dust extraction system moving huge volume at low pressure instead of a vacuum. Side by side in the same shop a Festool Kapex hooked up to a Fein Vac is cleaner than a Dewalt 12" slider with the vac port hooked up to another Fein AND a dust shroud being pulled on by a Powermatic 10hp dust collection system that takes up 80 square feet of floor space feeding 8 filter bags. The same dust collection does a good job with a 37" 20hp wide belt sander but does not catch the crap a 12" slider "construction" saw spits out.

The Domino and Tracksaw will work fine with any shop vac. The adjustable Festool, Fein, etc. vacs are necessary with the sanders.

[Erik Christensen]

the festool is spendy for sure and hard to justify if you are not going to have a bunch of green tools that the hose is designed to connect to. One point in it's favor that no other vac that I have seen has is a large flat top that makes using a small cyclone separator a seamless package. A disposable bag lasts over a year despite dumping dozens of 5 gallon buckets of sawdust. If you want HEPA (which you really do if you care about air quality) you have to use bags on any vac or the HEPA filters get clogged quickly killing flow-rate.

[Bob Reda]

One thing about the festool products, I purchase the 6" random orbital sandy when they first came out, about $400 if I remember correctly. Up until then I was purchasing a ros about every 2-3 years, all good ones, porter cable, dewalt, etc. I haven't purchased one since the festool, about 15 years ago. I sent it out for service once, replaced the hook and loop pads a couple times. So in that sense it has paid for itself many times over.

Bob

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I did not buy the tools, there were some parts missing.

Just read back through your responses, and there are good points, and about a 50/50 split on Festool or not. Matt and Rob, you have a good point about wifey liking it, she would no doubt borrow it from the woodshop. The Dewalt that Damon and Dominic pointed out is a contender. Ray and Greg make me wonder if I will be happy with the results hooked to my current saw. Eric, I agree about the form of it, which is why I'm not interested in the Fein, and Bob's point about longevity is well noted.

I think I will try to hook my old Rigid vacuum to the saw and see what happens. I hate the racket that thing makes, and it is defiantly not HEPA, but it will be proof of concept. If it works, I will buy a HEPA machine. The option to buy those Festools got me thinking about a couple of their machines, mainly the Kapex and the laminate trimmer. My old Makita has done a tremendous job over the 10 years I've owned it, but all good things must come to an end.

Think I'll do what you did Dominic, and keep the CT26 in the Amazon cart for a while and think on it a bit more. I don't mind spending the money on one, just wanted to make sure it was worth it.

[John Piwaron]

Thanks all for the input. I was not aware that Dewalt even existed, but looks really good!

That being said, the plot has thickened a bit. I have been offered a "deal" on a stack of used Festools, a Domino, a saw, and a trim router. I don't need this stuff right now, but it's a good enough price to make me wonder about starting a Festool collection...

I guess that would change the question fundamentally.

A "deal" on a bunch of used Festool products? Depending of course on how good the deal is, that's a no brainer. As long as everything is working as designed.

FWIW, I wouldn't use the Festool vac as a dust collector in that instance. The chopsaw doesn't have a particularly good place to grab the dust, especially a non-Festool saw. It's going to have to suck a big CFM number to effectively get all the dust. That's one place a real dust collector is better for. Or if $ are tight a less expensive shop vac.

That said, I have one of the Festool vacs. I love it! It's a great machine for sanding. Absolutely none better. I have a pair of Porter Cable 333's. the port on those is circular and happens to fit the Festool hose. Newer P-C sanders don't. If I didn't already have a ROS that fit the hose, the vac's sterling ability to get the dust would justify a Festool sander to match.

[John Piwaron]

One thing about the festool products, I purchase the 6" random orbital sandy when they first came out, about $400 if I remember correctly. Up until then I was purchasing a ros about every 2-3 years, all good ones, porter cable, dewalt, etc. I haven't purchased one since the festool, about 15 years ago. I sent it out for service once, replaced the hook and loop pads a couple times. So in that sense it has paid for itself many times over.

Bob


Hmmm - sander quality. I've had my PC 333s for a long long time. Only had to change the pad on one in that time. My preference in pads is for sticky back paper. I'd say that P-C model is very durable. And their purchase price is far below that of a Festool. It's Festool's prices that stop me from buying any more of their stuff no matter how good it is. That's a shame.

[Michael W. Clark]

Hmmm - sander quality. I've had my PC 333s for a long long time. Only had to change the pad on one in that time. My preference in pads is for sticky back paper. I'd say that P-C model is very durable. And their purchase price is far below that of a Festool. It's Festool's prices that stop me from buying any more of their stuff no matter how good it is. That's a shame.

I haven't had the PC, so I can't comment on it, but I do know PC makes some good tools as I have some PC power tools and really enjoy using them. However, I did buy one of the better Dewalt ROS 5" sanders and I had a hard time using it. Very noisy, lots of vibration, and all the sander wants to do is jump around on the work piece if not being held perfectly. Due to the grip arrangement, it is very fatiguing. The Festool sander by itself was more, but there is no comparison to the Dewalt. Far less vibration, probaly half the noise level or less, and much more forgiving on how it is held. I actually look forward to using it when coupled to the vac. I have some Dewalt tools that I really like, so not trying to be negative about Dewalt, just that particular sander.

The Festool vac works great, but not sure I would get one just for clean-up around the shop or use with a chop saw. I think it will not be adequate for chop saw dust collection, not enough CFM, and the hood design on most chop saws are lacking. The Festool vac would make a pricy shop-vac IMO, there are other features on the Festool vacs that warrent a higher sales price, so really can't compare the two. I do think you may find additional uses once you have one, but you will have to decide the value of that.

Whether or not the Festool prices are fair, it depends on the market and their business model. If the items are selling and their business model is going according to plan, then I would say they have the right combination of quality, price, and service for their intended market. I used to think it was too high priced and out of reach, but it sure beats any of the other sanders and vacs that I have owned.

[John Piwaron]

I can't remark on the DeWalt sander. About all to be said is to see it, try it out (if possible) and see if it meets your need. If not, there are other choices.

I use my Festool vac on my two sanders. No question. I also connect it to my Domino and to my P-C router with the grip vac. There are two bases for my 890 - the fixed base grip vac model and the one for plunging. In both cases I'd say dust and chip collection is ok at best. A router, like other things isn't really the easiest tool to collect from. I don't and would not use their vac as an all around shop vac. And like every other shop vac it doesn't have the right air flow for use as a dust collector.

Now, Festool's prices. I work in product engineering. So I have *some* (not all) idea of what goes into a product and the resulting impact on end cost. Festool has obviously put a *lot* of thought into their stuff. A lot. They work well. But, like every other companies products, not every unit they produce is without problems. My Festool vac had to be returned to them for service. It had a problem with an intermittent start. It was repaired by replacing the A/C motor within. That was warranty work. The Domino had a problem with the fence slipping. That is, it "self adjusted" the fence height. That problem I solved myself. I found a page that advised cleaning the clamping parts to remove any residual oils and rough up the clamping surface with a fine file like an ignition file. After that, no self adjust. The other problem I read about before I experienced it was the breakage some people were having with the lever that locked down the angle adjustment of the fence. The advise there was to be sure to avoid over tightening.

I had hoped that my Festools would be absolutely flawless for the money spent. But that was not the case for me. I'm probably the only guy that's had any trouble. The rest of their units are flawless. (I don't want Festool fanboy flames) I'm not unhappy with either machine. No way! They work well. They do things none of my other tools can do. And they do them well. But that doesn't stop them from being expensive. Would I buy another device from them? Yes. When I have a need and it fits the requirement. I think much of their cost is the result of their engineering. They've certainly done their homework. Their relatively high cost is justified by doing what they do very well. You won't soon be looking for a replacement because it's not performing correctly. It'll save you money by not buying the cheap XXXX and soon replacing it 'cause it wasn't quite up to the task.

At this time I don't have a portable circular saw. The Festool product will be top of the list for me to consider when I again need to use one.

[Damon Stathatos]

...and not to get off track...but how do you guys stand having a hose connected to your sanders ??? The power cord alone is enough to drive me nuts. For me, the bags they include with sanders is the first thing to go. Granted, I'm perfectly 'at home' wearing my dust mask while sanding and sawdust is just a fact of life in my shop, (and not just at the sanding station) but on the few occasions I've used a sander with a hose, it felt as if my unencumbered sander had just been hog-tied and shackled. It may just be me, but I'm almost embarrassed when someone walks into my shop after it's just been thoroughly cleaned...looks like I'm 'out of business' and they're the only fools who are considering my services. The shop gets a light sweeping when needed and a thorough cleaning about once a month, at which point I'm almost racing to at least get something messy once again.

Honestly, I'm not trying to start any great debates here, I just never could stand steering a hose along with my sanders. Am I the only one?

[Michael W. Clark]

John,
I'm pretty much the same opinion. I haven't had the issue you have had, so I'm sure it could be frustrating considering the price. I would defintely want some attention, replacement and for them to make it right if it wasn't. I don't buy only Festool either. I try to find the best combination of price/funtion/performance for my intended and anticipated future use. I have the same PC router (which I really like!), and use it with the Festool vac too. DC is better than nothing, but still leaves something to be desired, mostly because of the nature of the router. I used to use the router with a shop-vac, and I will say that it is a lot better with the Festool vac. Hose fits better, more flexible, automatic on with the vac, much quieter, and I think better suction. I'm also looking to get the tracksaw either for Christmas or later.

[Michael W. Clark]

...and not to get off track...but how do you guys stand having a hose connected to your sanders ???

You are probably not the only one. But I'm one of the ones that despise the paper masks. They sweat me and make me feel like I can't breath, plus they stink. I prefer the half-mask respirators when I have to wear one.

The hose bothers me when I'm not sanding horizontal, but I would rather deal with it as the mask, just personal preference. The Festool hoses stay on very well and I hold on to the Rotex where the hose and power chord come in, so that helps.

I agree the filter bags are useless. The auto off/on and quietness of the Festool vacs makes putting up with the hose a little more worth it. Less worth it with a noisy vac you have to manually turn off/on. Trying to bring it back to the vac question. Sorry for getting off-track.

[John Piwaron]

I used to sand that way. Let the dust go where it may. But I also don't like wearing a paper filter, dust mask or anything else. Cough, cough, cough. That was getting to be a real problem.

Plus, my woodworking is my hobby. It keeps me sane. It's in the basement of my house. My wife tolerated years of dust all over everything in the basement. But no longer. At the time we got a new HVAC system I was told to clean it all up. So now it's the Festool and a dust collector. No more cough, cough, cough.

Would I like no hoses or cords? Sure! But unless someone can cast a spell for the dust and chips to dutifully march to the trash bin I'll have to live with them. :)

[Ellen Benkin]

If you are offered a "deal" on Festool stuff, take it. You can always sell the items you don't want on Craigslist and maybe pay for the whole package. I just got a Festool sander for my birthday and, after years of being a reverse snob because of the prices, I have to admit that it is better than any other sander I've tried. Much less vibration and it doesn't seem to jerk around. Anyway, I'm now angling for a Festool vacuum to go with the sander. All their vacuums (or dust extractors) have HEPA ratings which was very important to me. I'm looking at the mini which others have assured me will work well with the sander. A Festool rep assured me that all the vacuums/dust extractors were exactly the same specs except for the size capacities and I don't need a big one to meet my needs.

[Peter Hawser]

I swore I would never spend $500 on a vac. A year later I got the CT22 and I can't believe how much I love this thing. It is so well designed I use it every time I am in the shop to keep all my shop clean. Shop vacs are to bulky with lousy hoses and attachments. IT is quiet, it is easy to move around, it performs heads and shoulders above your cheapo vac any day of the week. I have Festool sanders but I also hook it up to routers, belt sanders, dovetail jigs and biscuit joiners by other companies. However, my miter saw is hooked up to its own cheapo $40 home depot vac with an auto switch. Dedicating a Festool to my miter saw would be a waste. As for all the huffy cheapskate talk about Festool, even good vacs in the home are not cheap and the best cost $400 or much more. Compare your POS Hoover that will last a year with the top quality Miele or Dysons that not only last for years and years, but actually work.

[Jim Becker]

If you are not also considering buying into the Festool system, then there are alternatives available that meet your requirements of HEPA filtration and auto-start. Also be sure to consider noise levels--Festool, Fein and a few others excel at that, too. I don't consider Festool "overpriced"; rather, they are premium priced for products that have significantly great engineering and execution, especially when combined together to use as the aforementioned system. (Of course, price levels are relative to the buyer's needs, expectations and budget)

For the record I have ZERO regrets about investing in a whole bunch of Festool products. They have performed beyond my expectations, are engineered to last a long time and are designed for precision work. And the dude I bought them all from is about the best thing since sliced bread when it comes to customer service and integrity. (Bob Marino)

[Keith Outten]

Do yourself a favor and take a close look at the Oneida Dust Cobra.
Hepa filter and cyclone are the hot ticket.
.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Keith, you just threw another machine at me that I didn't know existed, very interesting!

My project I need this for first is actually the full renovation of an old house into a woodshop. I like the idea of using a cyclone separator to take the bulky stuff out, and the huge power of that Dust Cobra is very interesting. I have a 5hp Dust Gorilla that will eventually make the move to the new woodshop, I need a vacuum that is portable. The Cobra is big, but I think it may work.

I really want quiet though, can anybody help with a comparison:

The CT26 Festool says it is 62dB @ the low setting, no mention of the high dB level
The Dust Cobra claims 73dB @ 10'
I can't find a rating on the Dewalt
My 5hp Gorilla is 82dB

I know that my big cyclone is too loud to comfortably work around for very long, in my opinion, which is why it is getting a place in the basement of the new woodshop. Because the nature of working around vacuums dictates that you will be close to the noisy things, I want to know how the noise level of the Festool, Dewalt and Dust Cobra compare, on high settings. Maybe we have crossed into a new thread, but if anybody reads this far and has an opinion, share?

[Damon Stathatos]

The Dewalt specs (http://www.dewalt.com/tools/dust-management-dust-extractors-d27905h.aspx) show 72 db and 129 cfm.

The Festool specs (http://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/hepa-dust-extractors/ct-26-hepa-dust-extractor-583492) show 62-72 db and 137 cfm.

One thing I just noticed about the Dewalt is that they offer a 90 day money back guarantee.
Not sure what hoops you'd need to jump through to actually take them up on it though.

[Matt Meiser]

Not sure what hoops you'd need to jump through to actually take them up on it though.

From the very few stories I've read, you just return it to the dealer. Of course if you buy online that might be less convenient than a local dealer.

[Damon Stathatos]

Rockler stores had the Dewalt as a Black Friday special for $199. Leading up to that fateful day, I did my thinking about and investigations into the possibility of setting one up with my sanders. As I have already stated, my Dynabrades are not set up for dust collection. I mostly use the Dynabrades but have an array of sanders, PC's, Bosch, a few Dewalt palms, etc. You might say that I have a propensity to 'pick up' sanders, for some strange reason. The Dynabrade issue coupled with the realization that (again previously and subsequently posted) I can't stand steering a hose with my sanders (purely personal 'issue') and the decision was an easy one...taking a pass on the whole idea.

And then...this thread.
And this thread keeps going...and going...Hepa vacs...quiet...best thing I ever bought...can't believe how my life was before my Hepa vac...on and on.

Not much doing today so I'm surfing around the Rockler site. Free shipping offer expires at 3pm Central Time. The price on their website is $219. No big deal, I'm over this issue...repeat to self...'can't set it up with my Dynabrades.'

And then...I 'stumble' upon this (http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD10000792AA.pdf)...no question, much room for design improvement but...tell me this isn't 'cool.' I have a Jet 15" that spews, literally, like Old Glory. Probably don't need a Hepa vac for a planer but, what the heck, ...Free Shipping Until 3pm Central, man !!! OK, so now I'm on a mission, it's almost 3pm Central...but before I press the point-of-no-return... 'Place Order' button, figured I give my local Rockler a call. You got it, they still have a few left over from Black Friday (they must have bought a lot of these) and guess what...the 'old' price, $199.

And so, I would like to formally thank everyone on this thread...thanks a lot 'men'...one more gizmo...one more project...two less c-notes...yeah...thanks again...

[scott vroom]

And so, I would like to formally thank everyone on this thread...thanks a lot 'men'

Er.....Ellen might have something to say about that...lol

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Glad I could do my part Damon, enjoy that HEPA bliss!

[Paul Murphy]

I think I will try to hook my old Rigid vacuum to the saw and see what happens. I hate the racket that thing makes, and it is defiantly not HEPA, but it will be proof of concept. If it works, I will buy a HEPA machine.

Steve, why not buy a HEPA filter for your old Rigid vac? It will still be loud, but used with a HEPA filter and a bag the air will be so much more breathable.
http://www.cleanstream.com/products/landing_craftsman_ridgid.html

I have the CleanStream on an old ShopVac, and it has been in use for almost 10 years. Money well spent in my case.

[Steve Peterson]

I kicked around the idea of getting the Dewalt Hepa Vac (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=31839&site=ROCKLER) 'on sale' at Rockler. I checked out the specs (noise level, cfm, hose size, etc.) and they all were comparable to the Festool. I'm sure the build quality would be much better on the Festool but for what you're talking about, this one is much cheaper. There's free shipping through Sunday at Rockler as well so, just a bit of icing on that cake. In the end, I decided that I really didn't need a hepa vac (my dynabrades aren't set up for dust collection) so punted on the whole idea. Anyway, thought you may want to check it out.

I bought the Dewalt at the Rockler sale and I really like it. There is no comparison between it and my old shop vac. I can't see paying $950 for a Festool when you can get the Dewalt for $219 right now. The auto start switch is only good for 3-5 amps depending on the blower speed. This is good enough for a ROS which is the primary reason I bought it.

It comes with a more expensive felt filter bag that is recommended for heavy dust like concrete. The paper bags recommended for sanding dust are only about $15 for 3 so I will pick up a few of those.

Steve

[Ellen Benkin]

Er.....Ellen might have something to say about that...lol

Thanks for noticing but that's something I live with to be part of the woodworking world. The guys who know me treat me like one of the guys, and that's OK.

[Matt Meiser]

Where are you guys getting $950?

CT36 - $625
CT26 - $575
CT Midi - $465
CT Mini - $410

All have the same specs performance wise. Form factor and bag size are the difference. Not that the Dewalt still isn't much cheaper, but $950 bad information.

[Andrew Joiner]

...and not to get off track...but how do you guys stand having a hose connected to your sanders ???

Honestly, I'm not trying to start any great debates here, I just never could stand steering a hose along with my sanders. Am I the only one?

I'm debating this too. I was researching lightweight hoses. What I'm going to do first is take a light house vac hose I have and tape it to my sander cord and see if it drives me crazy. I think it might so I'll continue to wear a mask and deal with the dust.

I'd like to try a vac on my sander to get better life/value out my disks and lower my cost of disks.

[Damon Stathatos]

My sincerest apologies to Ellen. Incidentally, it was her glowing review that added to my slide down this cliff. In my own defense however, I would like to point out the fact that I did quote-mark my reference to 'men' in my post and my intention of doing so was to reference a more general 'mankind' populous rather than just the male gender specifically. That being said, I take full responsibility for this apparent slight and will strive to communicate in a more sensitive manner in the future.

I plan to pick the Dewalt up on my way home tonight. If the OP, Steve R., hasn't already taken the plunge, I'd be happy to post my assessment of it tomorrow at some point. Today I'm going to start gluing up walnut boards for my new, self-contained-dust-collecting-jointer-stand/cabinet. Definitely need to work on the Rockler plan design but am eager to get my chip-spewing beast 'at bay' soon.

[Alan Wright]

Damon, good luck with the new "tool" I was in the same spot last year and went with the Dewalt. I've read some reviews about the max amperage tool you can plug into the vac as compared to the Festool, which limits the Dewalt to hand tools. Not sure why this would be a deal breaker. I love my Dewalt and even thought I didn't get the hepa filter, I plug my Festools Rotex sander into the Dewalt and sand away. When I look in the air, I can see virtually no dust. I'm sure a hepa filter would be nice, but come on.... for another $99 for a disposable Hepa filter, just seems like overkill to me. I know there are those that would disagree, but again, having gone from sanding with little real dust collection to the Dewalt is like night and day.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I was just looking at my Oneida SG, and I was wrong, I have the 3hp machine. The 82 Db I used for the 5 hp machine earlier in this thread is according to Oneida actually 80-82 Db for a 3hp machine. Not that it matters much for this thread, but thought I better put the right info out there.