Anyone use Space Balls in Raised Panel Door Construction??

[George Bokros]

My rail and stile set cuts 3/8" deep grooves 1/4" wide for the stub tenons and the panels. I have been using 1/4" as my clearance for my panel size calculations, is that what you use when using space balls? I just read in the McFeely catalog you should use 3/16" allowance for the space balls. Space balls are .26" in diameter.

Thanks

George

[Roger Feeley]

I used 1/4". They work great.

[Nicholas Lingg]

All the Time

[Alan Lightstone]

Yup. Works just fine.

[Don Jarvie]

I've used 100% silicone caulk and put the panels in when its wet. Works pretty good.

[Peter Quinn]

To your question about panel spacing, yes 3/16" is correct. The balls want to be under compression in use to keep the panel centered, and they can compress more to accommodate wood movement. I've used both balls and sponges, they certainly make the process simpler and improve performance.

[David Kumm]

1/4" OD tubing cut up does the same thing. It's not just the gap in the tongue but a little space to the raised part that needs to be left to expand to the shaped edge. Dave

[Jim Underwood]

We use them every single day of the week. We use a 1/2" tongue and groove profile, and the panel inset is 5/16", which compresses the 1/4" ball to 3/16". Any more than that and you risk the door popping apart if the panel expands in hot or humid weather. In fact, even with that recommended spacing, I've seen some pop apart when the door got really wet.

If you don't use a spaceball, then you'll need to make the panel inset a bit more to keep it from floating too much, and exposing unfinished areas, and/or rattling around in the frame.

[George Bokros]

Thanks for all the replies. I will change my panel clearance to 3/16"

George

[Ole Anderson]

Yes, but I often cut them in half depending on how much slop I ended up with in the panels.

[andy photenas]

I have used this item also but it was thinking on it more and i feel the space ballls are a very weak link in this.
I end up depending on them to center and keep the panel tight. I have a total of around 100 doors or so made with them so far and no problems.
But I have yet to come across any rubber item that does not dry out and im a bit worried about what is gona happen in 10-20 years as i hope to be putting out things that last 100+ years. also there really is a lot of outward pressure when i put this item in the door but that has not been an issue as of yet either.
What do you guys think ?

[Art Mann]

Maybe some day I will regret it, but for the last 10 years, I have been using 5/8" 23 gauge pin nails strategically and discreetly placed on the back side of the door. The tiny pin nails are flexible enough to allow for shrinkage and swelling but not so weak as to allow gross movement or rattling under normal circumstances.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have used this item also but it was thinking on it more and i feel the space ballls are a very weak link in this.
I end up depending on them to center and keep the panel tight. I have a total of around 100 doors or so made with them so far and no problems.
But I have yet to come across any rubber item that does not dry out and im a bit worried about what is gona happen in 10-20 years as i hope to be putting out things that last 100+ years. also there really is a lot of outward pressure when i put this item in the door but that has not been an issue as of yet either.
What do you guys think ?

I bought a huge container of Space balls over twenty years ago, then closed my cabinet shop, so I have lots left. They are still as soft as they were twenty years ago, so I would not worry if I were too much about them getting hard.

Larry

[John A langley]

Google panel buddies , whole lot cheaper

[William C Rogers]

Haven't used them yet, bit bought the Panalign strips from Somerfield's. They are suppose to maintain their elasticity and one of their sales pitch is because they are rectangular it minimized the chance they will slip down to the bottom of the door over time.

[Jerry Olexa]

Yes, always in raised panel....Very helpful....Good use of small $

[Rob Feldner]

Yes, but I often cut them in half depending on how much slop I ended up with in the panels.
You might need to hunt around a bit, but they do have different diameter balls available.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Yes, but I often cut them in half depending on how much slop I ended up with in the panels.

Me too.

I put a drop of medium or thick CA glue in the bottom of the groove to hold them in place for assembly.

[andy photenas]

looks like the space balls are gona be in use in my shop too ty guys.

[Christoph G. Olesch]

Hello ... New member here and new to woodworking. I'm 70 and a little senile, but that's not going to stop me. I've read as much as I could to find about floating raised panel spacing and dimensioning, and still don't get it -- about the 3/16" spacing. I'm thinking of using the 1/4" spaceballs or panel buddies. Now, i have cope and stick with grooves that are 1/2" deep by 1/4" wide. The panel opening is 6"; that makes the "full inside" width between grooves 7". The stiles and frames are of white oak, and the panels are solid brazilian canary wood. After some reading, I'm assuming/understand I should have 1/4" spacing off each side of the groove, so that makes my panel width at 6-1/2". But that gives me panel engagement of only 1/4" on each side. If I use the 1/4" panel buddies (to which I am leaning) or 1/4" spaceballs, that would give me theoretically "no compression." I understand the balls or buddies are not exactly dimensioned. At this theoretical "no compression" panel size, how wide should I make the panels, in order to get proper holding pressure, yet not too much compression so as to break glue joints: 6-5/8" or 6-3/4" or other size? Thanks for your help.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Is there any reason not to use appropriately sized backer rod in a pinch, if you don't space balls on hand? Compressible, closed cell foam is really all it is. Seems like it would serve the same purpose.

[Mark Bolton]

We use a lot of them as well. Have any of you heard of or had issues with staining? I remember a thread on a commercial forum where a few people had problems with the rubber/balls causing a stain that bled up into the panel edge. I chalked it up to perhaps some manufacturing issue with the brand/source of rubber spacers that were used but it always pops into my head when Im sticking them in.

To the OP you can search youtube and find videos of insertion machines that dont use balls but cut pieces off large rolls and a guy just stands there all day inserting rubber spacers into sticking grooves.

Most commodity commercial cabinetry now (lowes/home depot), the sticking is completely pre-finished, the panels are completely pre-finished, and the door is assembled and clamped. Looks horrible, poor quality, but its the way of the world.

[James Biddle]

I've had a problem in the past with them bleeding through into the finish. Not good. It hasn't happened every time, so I think some batches may be worse than others. I use the cylindrical versions now, I forgot the brand, that promise not to bleed through. Oh, and when you spill them, you don't have to look as far...don't ask.

If you use too many of them, whichever brand, it can be a nightmare compressing them during glue-up.

[Steve Lansing]

The balls are usually a little oversized so when compressed in your groove it should increase the size even more

[Martin Wasner]

We get staining from the space balls. Maple and white oak seem to get it the worst. We don't do much natural, so the oil based stain washes out the oil from the space balls.

We use 1/4" balls, and make the panel a 1/4" less than the opening. As in, a 12" rail gets a 11-3/4" wide panel. Reading this makes me wonder if we should do 3/8" less than the opening. Once in a while we'll get doors that don't go together nicely, and squishing them less would probably reduce the oil getting squeezed out.

[Leo Graywacz]

I use 23ga pins on either end(grain) of the panel. Shoot them through the backside of the door with 5/8" pins.

[Lee Schierer]

You can also make your own spacers from a tube of 100% silicone caulk. Just squirt out a 1/4" diameter bead several inches long on a piece of wax paper or plastic wrap. Let it cure and then cut it into short lengths.

[Warren Lake]

I use quarter inch white naughahyde padding from upholstery places just cut the width I want. I pin in the center or could just use glue the foam would probably keep it centered. on the bottom rail i use 1/8" pieces of wood then the foam on top. bit more time than space balls, works better compresses nicely.

[jack duren]

If the $20 or so isn't a problem I would buy. They do make different ones these days....http://www.cshardware.com/hardware/hardware-supplies/panel-spacers.html https://www.amazon.com/Space-Balls-Bag-of-1000/dp/B001BLZ692/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1511701020&sr=1-1&keywords=space+balls

[Mike Cutler]

Christopher

In the limited use I've had with them, spaceballs, I too thought they took up too much room and left too little panel material in the groove.
When I searched the Internet about it, the spacing, I found that some folks cut them in half and used them that way. I don't think that's really practical for a person running a shop for a living, but for a guy in his garage, it worked for me.

[peter gagliardi]

I have never heard of, or experienced any kind of bleeding from the space balls- been using for probably 20-25 years I think. However, I do almost no staining, and when I do, it is dye based. I also pre-stain and/or pre-finish all my panel edges prior to glue up. That way when it does shrink back a bit I don't get the embarrassing heavy stain concentration on the edges to show, or worse, the unstained light edges.
The 23 ga pins in the top and bottom rails in the center, are a good way to acheive the same net effect.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have never heard of, or experienced any kind of bleeding from the space balls- been using for probably 20-25 years I think. However, I do almost no staining, and when I do, it is dye based. I also pre-stain and/or pre-finish all my panel edges prior to glue up. That way when it does shrink back a bit I don't get the embarrassing heavy stain concentration on the edges to show, or worse, the unstained light edges.
The 23 ga pins in the top and bottom rails in the center, are a good way to acheive the same net effect.


What he said..........