Redsail lasers

[Michael Arruda]

Hello all,

I've been looking through the archives and have not found alot of recent info on Redsail lasers. I'm going tomorrow to look at a used Redsail M500. it's a couple years old, but is set up and operable for testing before purchase.

Price is $1800, which includes Machine and:
1. Laser Engraving software Package (English Version)
2. User Manual (CD)
3. Water Pump and Water tank
4. upgraded Air exhaust fan
5. Air Pump
6. Communication cable
7. Power cable
8. 120V to 220V Converter

This will be a stepping off point- I currently use an Epilog Helix 24 75w for engraving chores at another shop, but am doing more in house and need something of my own. The idea is to get along with this laser for about 6 months, then upgrade to a newer DSP from Lightobject (the existing one in the unit apparently only works with winXP) and a new tube if necessary, then run with that set up for another 6-12 months, which at the end of that time I'm hoping to have the capital to purchase an Epilog.

So... any pointers/ experience/ ideas from OWNERS of chinese/ redsail machines? I'm not looking for non-owner "don't do it" posts- I've read plenty of them. As far as repair, I'm not concerned with that- I built my CNC and have designed and implemented other motion control systems- if I had the time I would simply build my own laser from the ground up.

Thank you,
Michael

[Deane Donaghy]

Well I imported an X700 Redsail Laser about 9 months ago, and for the money I'm still a happy camper.
The only issue so far has been a blown fuse in the power input socket, so maybe a $1 part I had to replace.
It hasn't had a lot of use as it's just for my own personal use plus home-based engraving pocket money business.
The service in all respects has been very good, and it's only the "Chinglish" that can be a slight problem sometimes.
You get what you pay for, so be open minded.
The price hopefully is negotiable as your not getting anything you don't get with a new machine.

[Michael Arruda]

Well, the price isn't much negotiable- the seller was asking $2200. It seems the x700 is going for $2200 shipped on ebay, so I figure the import duties and dock fees are probably around $200, plus $250 for the rotary, so at $1800 I'm around $850 under new compared to the x700. Now, the m500 is only a 12x20 table, so that's a factor; I think I'll make the 180 mile drive to check it out and see if there's any more negotiation room in person...


-Michael

[Michael Arruda]

Okay, got back a couple hours ago. We bought the laser for $1600. It was made in 2009, so I don't know how long the tube will last. It runs great. Does anyone know if the lightobject controller can process any more than 2 bit bitmaps? I'm trying to do 3D gradients, but it will only process black and white images, for the most part, just with tighter black density the higher the gradient goes.

Is there another way to do this?

Thank you,
Michael

[Deane Donaghy]

That still sounds like a good buy. What wattage is the machine ?
A new tube should only be a few hundred $$'s if needed later on

[john banks]

RDCAM will do 3d, but you may find it isn't that useful given tube response time - YMMV as mine is 100W. Friend has Lightobject DSP and finds it a PITA for importing vectors, lots of unresolved bugs he says and he is thinking of changing to RDCAM.

[Clark Pace]

Hi Deane.

Question. I am also thinking about ordering a m500. I ask Lucy the rep if the machine is the same still since 2007. She said it has been upgraded a bit. I know the older version seemed to have homing issues? Have you had any problems. Also they said they would take care of the paper for for exporting to seaport. ISF and stuff. What was your experience. Did you pick it up at the seaport or have a transport company pick it up from the sea port and ship it to you. Just wondering what hoops or steps to make it easier you may have found and wish you would have done now.

Thanks

[Deane Donaghy]

G'day Mate,
My process was all pretty smooth, apart from the ship carrying my X700 getting diverted to rescue survivors from a sinking asylum seekers boat in the Indian Ocean, so delayed it's final arrival by nearly a week.
Redsail prepared it all for shipment to Australia, and supplied the required documents to me , which were then given to the appropriate people when needed.
I engaged a customs broker to handle all the paperwork and stuff, and just paid up when needed, then I got the paperwork from them to produce at the customs warehouse when I picked it up.
It does cost a few hundred bucks , but it's worth the hassle when you end up saving thousands. My X700 ended up owing me a tad over $4000 AUD which included spare tube, lenses, and mirrors and a rotary attachment. The equivalent machine from the Oz Redsail agent was about $8000, so you do the maths.
I found Redsail in general to be very good to deal with given the language barrier, but they always replied promptly to any questions I had, the machine was very well packed, and the one and only problem so far was dealt with very well.
There will always be someone that has had a bad experience with whoever you are dealing with.
Just use your own judgement and common sense.

[Clark Pace]

So you just had to find a shipper that would take the papers in your behalf to the port of entry? The customs broker did not have to file any other papers? Thank. P.S. how is the x700 working for you. The price is the same as the m500 yet is has a larger cut area? Just wondering what limits you may have found. And why I should maybe go with the x700 over the m500. It weird to me that they are both similar in price but the m500 is much smaller.

[Deane Donaghy]

Bigger is always better if you have the room and the money to accommodate the machine.
I first saw my X700 advertised on Fleabay and the price included free shipping, so I sent them a few questions,
and they suggested we deal direct and cut out fleabay, so I started dealing directly with Sarah via email.
They organized all the shipping, and I only had to organize my customs broker at this end.
The Chinese will always bargain with you to get your business by offering stuff for free, or other incentives.
The competition is so fierce there, it's a dog eat dog world, so you play that as your ace and say well Brand X do the street can do machine for $XX , so what can you do for cash ?
Limitations. Well yes, not enough power too small, all the normal things.
As the old adage says, you get what you pay for, grasshopper.

[George Carlson]

I bought am M900 about a year ago. It's been working fine. I made a few mods, but that was just for some special needs. The importing part was interesting, but the broker handled everthing, so all I had to do was pay money. Make sure you get the FDA paperwork from the supplier. My machine went through a container X-ray and an intensive inspection, for which US customs charged about $600 more than normal, so make sure you have a contingency fund.

[Clark Pace]

I got my redsail x700. When I run the laser mate software It says no link. U-link. Do any of you that have a redsail laser know if the software requires a dongle be plugged in? I think they call it a u-disk? I have run 3 other china lasers, and 2 othem did. One of them did not. The manual does no metion anything.

Thanks in advance.

[George Carlson]

My M900 used EasyCut, which was a private labeled version of LaserCut. It required a dongle. My machine had two USB connections. One was for the U-Disk (thumb drive) and the other for connection to a PC. It was weird because it used the same rectangular USB as you would find on a PC for both. It had a special cable with the rectangular connector on both ends.
It is a common error to use the wrong USB on the laser. I changed out the controller in my M900 for one sold by LightObject. It does not require a dongle and has an Ethernet interface as well as the USB and Thumb drive.

[Paul Posner]

Hey all,

New here on the forum, and sort-of new to CNC machines. i currently am running a SoliDoodle 3-D Printer, and I am making the jump into more CNC machines.

Just ordered a Shapeoko2 and I'm pretty fired up about that.

I have been talking with Lucy @ CNCCheap - a distro for Redsail. She's been very prompt with responses, but I am trying to get her prices down just a bit, so I can go bigger and stay within budget. I also spoke with their importer/customs guy here in the US. What a good dude.

here's my questions:

For a third the price of an Epilog, I am expecting a somewhat lesser product, but I still have good expectations. For all you that have Redsail product, what do you think? Has your Redsail met your expectations?

How much did all the importing, duties, customs, and broker fees add up to? I surely understand the value a broker can bring to the table, and considering this particular broker has imoprted dozens of redsail's lasers, I expect it should go fairly smoothly. Were there any items or documents that could have sped up the process? Anything that will slow the process down that I should try to avoid?

Are there any other companies that would compete with Redsail? I am pretty comfortable with my decision, but hey, a guy can change his mind, can't he?

Trying to get the X900 @ 60W to come it at $3900 with all the accy's Right now it's at $4150 - still a good price, but with the fees, it goes over my $5k budget for a laser cutter.

I could step down to a X700 @ 50W... but seriously... Who'd want to do that over $250...

Anyone got a nice trick to get them to shed a few bucks on the price? Mention their competitors? Mention that if I take the step down to an X700 they're losing about $1000 on my purchase, instead of $250? I don't want to be insulting, and from what I know, that is easy to do when dealing with China.

I am hoping I can get Lucy to drop about $250 on the total price (including spare tube & mirrors/lens, rotary, honeycomb, Red-Dot, chiller, and shipping).I know 250 isn't much, but it's about 200 over my proposed budget, and it seems the importing fees and such are going to be higher than I expected, by about double...


Thanks in advance and I am sure I'll be floating around this site pretty regularly...

Paul

[Robert Tepper]

Hello Paul,

Welcome. I am not familiar with the brand you are purchasing. Just a thought though. If you have a business plan in place and you feel that the purchase of your laser will be in your best interest, than $250 over budget does not seem like a large amount when you consider that this amount can be made up over several jobs.

Just my opinion,
Robert

[Clark Pace]

I have a redsail x700 and it's been a fine machine. One power supply gone back, but oterwise also happy with the machine.

[Paul Posner]

Hey Robert,

Yes, I would normally agree that a few hundred here or there isn't much in the big picture, but when starting a new business, budgets are critical to stick to, especially when you're trying to show off for potential investors in associated projects...
When acquiring 10 machines and each one comes in over budget by $200, it becomes $2000 pretty quickly, and that $2000 is a whole other machine.


$250 over budget does not seem like a large amount

[Greg M Ellis]

G,day Michael,
I bought A Redsail 1290, from China 18 months ago, the table in the Z mod, the right hand front corner is down by 3mm, and the far right hand corner is down by 2mm from Level, I will fix when the Mate comes over,
The biggest problem with this unit ------------------is the Operator and that's Me I'm 68 years old an on background,
I am having lots of fun, Best thing I ever bought,----------- I make lots of mistakes------------I'm into Model Trains
Cheers Greg Ellis Down Under

[Ken Frazer]

I would not recommend a REDSAIL LASER to my worst enemy !! Their software is junk and don't communicate with the machine. I have tried to make it work on Windows 7,8,and 10 and on 3 different computers and makes no difference will not find the port. I had an Epilog for years and never had a problem till I bought this piece of junk.. M500 Redsail Laser.

[Clark Pace]

I would not recommend a REDSAIL LASER to my worst enemy !! Their software is junk and don't communicate with the machine. I have tried to make it work on Windows 7,8,and 10 and on 3 different computers and makes no difference will not find the port. I had an Epilog for years and never had a problem till I bought this piece of junk.. M500 Redsail Laser.

Sound like you got a lemon. It will happen with any company. You must have just got the bad luck.

I've never tried running the machine on anything higher than windows 7 32bit. It may have a64bit issue. If you are used to ULS or Epilog software then the rd cam or laser works is a indeed a step down. But I use corel draw and import all my stuff. I use the china software just as a print driver.

I have owned 2 ULS machines myself so I know the difference. Overall I am been very please over the 3 years I have had my machine. It is a work horse, and the quality it pretty dang good for a DC tube. It has paid for itself a long time ago.

[Kev Williams]

Can't find the port-- been there done that...

My Triumph will only run on "COM 3" - I suspect most of these machines may have similar restrictions.

That said- On any computer I connect to, only ONE USB port will work as the COM 3 port. AND------ COM 3 must be available and not used by another computer resource. If it's not, the machine and computer will never connect to each other.

That's exactly what happened when I had to change out my 64bit Win7 computer to another XP to run my Explorer once I got it (it's driver requires a 32bit machine). This was a 'fresh' rebuilt Dell computer all back to factory-new settings. It had set aside COM 3 for something else, mouse driver or something. Took awhile to figure this out. I had to manually configure the port to use it. Voila....

[Keith Winter]

There are "redsail" knock offs. Meaning others that use the same case that are not redsail. Did you buy it from eBay, if so which company did you buy it from?


Sound like you got a lemon. It will happen with any company. You must have just got the bad luck.

I've never tried running the machine on anything higher than windows 7 32bit. It may have a64bit issue. If you are used to ULS or Epilog software then the rd cam or laser works is a indeed a step down. But I use corel draw and import all my stuff. I use the china software just as a print driver.

I have owned 2 ULS machines myself so I know the difference. Overall I am been very please over the 3 years I have had my machine. It is a work horse, and the quality it pretty dang good for a DC tube. It has paid for itself a long time ago.

[Bill George]

If your getting a 50 watt Chinese laser for $2500 shipped and going to compare to a Epilog, ULS and Trotec your in for a surprise. Do some reading on here.

[Klaus Madsen]

Yeah you mostly only hear from people with bad experiences. I have a RedSail M900 100W without any problems.