Spokeshave chatter

[Larry Fox]

I have two LV spokeshaves - one flat bottom and one round (Item's A and B on the page below). The flat one works GREAT and leaves a glass-smooth finish. Love the tool. The round one on the other hand - not so much. I can't get it to stop chattering when in use. The blade is very sharp and set to take a relatively fine shaving and I am getting some nasty chatter. I am using it on maple. I am just about 100% convinced it is either setup and / or my technique as opposed to an issue with the tool so looking for some pointers as I don't have much experience with a round bottom shave. I get slightly less chatter when I skew the tool. I am trying to smooth a concave curve on a 1 3/4 thick piece of maple.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=49142&cat=1,50230&ap=1

Thanks in advance for your time

[David Weaver]

This is hard maple? How light of a cut do you have to make before you get chatter?

Is there any reason to believe that the blade is not held absolutely firmly when everything is clamped down?

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

part of the trick with the round shave is to keep the cut engaged, particularly if the curve you're working is less than the sole of the shave - because the bottom is round, you can easily rock the blade into and out of the cut. Skewing the tool can help if it makes the radius match closer, otherwise concentrate on keeping the sole of the tool in the same orientation to the work throughout the cut. Sometimes pushing or pulling may be easier.

Look at setup, too - if you're riding the very rear of the sole, and then adjust the blade to cut when using it in that orientation, you've got a lot of projection going on.

[Prashun Patel]

Is the blade sharpened well? Is the blade protruding too far? The lighter the cut, the less chatter. Does it chatter when you pull instead of push?

[Archie England]

Using a "light" touch is the only other suggestion. Well, that's not true. Typically, thicker irons don't chatter as much as thinner; but, you've already got a great kit.

[Bill Houghton]

Are you pushing or pulling the tool? Our wrists curl inward better than outward, and I've found that round-bottomed shaves chatter less in my hands when I pull them. You want to orient the wood, too, so that the movement as you pull the shave is from wrists more or less straight out to wrists curled downward/inward not more than 90 degrees.

And, of course, the cutting iron should be as close to impossibly sharp as your skills permit.

[Jim Koepke]

In my experience the curved sole spokeshave is a tricky tool to master. Once you get it dialed in it is a sweet tool.

To go over what has already been said:

The lighter the cut the better. Getting the blade just right takes me a bit of time tapping with my adjuster mallet. Once it is set, it stays there until it absolutely needs sharpening. Then it gets sharpened to the best of my ability and checked carefully.

Skewing the shave can also help.

The difficult part is getting the control to not let the shave pop out of the cut. At first when using the curved sole spokeshave most of my cuts were practicing on a straight piece.

You may also want to check for debris under the blade. Your spokeshave shouldn't need fettling. My old Stanley did need a little as light could be seen between the blade and the blade bed. The thin blades on a Stanley also have a propensity to become curved and not bed well.

Finally, this is mentioned because it was once my mistake of trying the blade bevel up. That caused a bit of chatter.

Try working on a flat piece to get the feel and to adjust for the thinest shaving you can. The practice alone might be of help.

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

A lot of times what happens with chattering is from the angle of attack - you get the pitch of the tool so it cuts just right, the iron digs in a bit, and the tool rocks forward on it's round sole ever so slightly, until it's riding more on it's nose and the iron is no longer engaged in the wood and thus not cutting; it can slide forward easily again and begins to rock back again until the iron engages again, and repeat.

[Ryan Baker]

+1. What Joshua just said. It is most likely from letting the shave rotate forward a bit, with the sole behind the iron coming off the surface and not supporting the cut. Play around with the angle of the shave, and try to keep it consistent (with respect to the wood) as you move around the curve. Back the cutter off for a very light cut. Make sure the blade is seated solidly too.

[Steve Friedman]

Just a couple of things to add to what has already been said.

First, does the curved shave chatter even when you use it on flat stock? If yes, then it is likely to be a setup problem.

This may sound overly-simple, but I find that it's really easy for the lever cap equivalent (not sure what it's called on a spokeshave - the little black piece) to be seated improperly. That cap needs to be level and seated firmly all the way down. It's just really easy for a small shaving to prevent the cap from seating firmly, which will result in chatter.

Just my 2 cents.

Steve

[Chris Vandiver]

This is a common problem for first time users of round bottom spokeshaves. You have to find the balance between cutting too much(rolling too far forward)and not cutting enough(rolling too far back). It just takes practice and it will get easier as you go along. Use finesse and be aware of the grain direction at all times. You have to lock into the stroke.

[Larry Fox]

Guys - thank you very much for the replies. I fooled around with it a bit more last night and I think it is 100% technique. I focused on holding a consistent angle relative to the wood all the way through the cut and things went much better. It is a bit tough to adjust your angle of hold as the angle of the workpiece changes so I still got some chatter but nothing as bad as before. I will keep working at it - thanks again for all the help.

[george wilson]

I think I'd like the other spokeshave LV makes better. It is black,cast aluminum,and the blade is held on by flat headed screws on the ends. The blade can be put in 2 different positions for flat or curved.

The handle is flat,though,and that would give a better fell for getting the tilt correct while using the shave. The blade is oriented just about flat to the work,too,like the old ones were. Easier to sharpen,though,because the vertical posts are not there.

[Chris Griggs]

I think I'd like the other spokeshave LV makes better. It is black,cast aluminum,and the blade is held on by flat headed screws on the ends. The blade can be put in 2 different positions for flat or curved.

The handle is flat,though,and that would give a better fell for getting the tilt correct while using the shave. The blade is oriented just about flat to the work,too,like the old ones were. Easier to sharpen,though,because the vertical posts are not there.

I've been very pleasantly surprised by the shave. For some reason when I bought it I wasn't confident I would like it, but its pretty nice. It doesn't get into crazy tight curves, but it will handle most furniture scale curves. It is indeed very comfortable too. I really like the size and shape of the handles. I played with the wooden LN razor shave at a tool event and didn't find it nearly as comfortable. The handles felt very thin and the corners were all kind of sharp. That's not a rip on the tool, its very nice, but didn't like the feel of that one nearly as much as I like my LV one.

[george wilson]

Haven't heard that complaint. I do have large,pretty toughened hands. Maybe the handles could be dipped into plastic handle dip?

If I had perfectly round handles,I think I'd try to make them more oval,at least.

[Chris Griggs]

Haven't heard that complaint. I do have large,pretty toughened hands. Maybe the handles could be dipped into plastic handle dip?

If I had perfectly round handles,I think I'd try to make them more oval,at least.

I doubt LN would want to dip the handles of such pretty wooden shave in plastic. My feedback to them would be to simply make the handles a little thicker and ease the corners a bit more. The aluminum LV one has similarly shaped handles but they feel thicker and the corners all rounded over, which is likely what makes it more comfortable for me.

Also, in all fairness to the LN version, playing with something for a couple minutes at an event isn't the same as owning. You sorta get used to the tools you own, so it could be that being used to the LV LA shave, the LN being pretty different in feel, just wasn't what I was used too.

Also, just to be clear these are the shaves I'm comparing:

This LV one (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=44834&cat=1,50230&ap=1) is what I have and really like.... This LN razor (http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=1-81) shave is the one I tried out at show, and didn't like the feel of. Again, not saying its not a good tool, that was just just my subjective experience when I tried it out. I'm sure there are plenty of folks who like it just fine...

Its funny, just looking at the online pictures side by side the handles look like they'd feel pretty similar (despite one being wood and the other aluminum), but in hand I found the handle shapes feel surprisingly different.