help ID a chisel

[Jeff Bartley]

I've been cleaning up a framing chisel that I recently purchased and would like to solicit help identifying the maker. It reads:
A.W. _R__SMAN
CAST STEEL
The first letter looks like a 'C' or a 'G', and the third letter could be an 'O'. The forth letter is completely worn off.
It's a socket chisel and has a laminated blade, first laminated blade I've ever owned. After getting the rust off the line between the two steels is very prominent.
Can anyone help me find my missing letters? Thanks! Jeff

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

A.W. Grossman? Seems like a name I've seen before, but can't remember, but searching Google for "A.W. Grossman chisel" turns up a few that have sold on eBay and some photos on Flickr.

[Joe Bailey]

A. W. Crossman, 1850s-60s, Warren, Mass.

[Jeff Bartley]

Thanks guys! Warren, Mass huh? I'm never awed by the fact that many of us here use tools that are over a hundred years old!! It really brings history alive for me. Many times while I'm working I'll think about all the stories the tools could tell if only they could speak! How many mortices did this chisel make? How many owners did it have? Did it sit in the bottom of a tool chest for 50 years?
One thing I can say for certain about this particular chisel is that at one time or another someone was very ham-handed with it! Unfortunately for me it's back is concave.....I have some work ahead to flatten it! Anyone have a slick technique for flattening a concave back?

[Charlie Stanford]

Thanks guys! Warren, Mass huh? I'm never awed by the fact that many of us here use tools that are over a hundred years old!! It really brings history alive for me. Many times while I'm working I'll think about all the stories the tools could tell if only they could speak! How many mortices did this chisel make? How many owners did it have? Did it sit in the bottom of a tool chest for 50 years?
One thing I can say for certain about this particular chisel is that at one time or another someone was very ham-handed with it! Unfortunately for me it's back is concave.....I have some work ahead to flatten it! Anyone have a slick technique for flattening a concave back?

Umm, concavity across the back is what you want and if this what you have the maker intentionally put the bevel on the other side after determining which side was concave after the chisel cooled. Should make it very easy to lap flat just behind the edge.

[Jeff Bartley]

........sorry, my mistake, I meant to say it was convex......I think I'm slightly dyslexic! I don't think the maker had a choice about which side to put the bevel: it's a laminated blade.

[Charlie Stanford]

........sorry, my mistake, I meant to say it was convex......I think I'm slightly dyslexic! I don't think the maker had a choice about which side to put the bevel: it's a laminated blade.

Make it concave with a Dremel. You'll pull your hair out trying to lap it flat.

[george wilson]

A DREMEL is the very last tool I'd suggest trying to generate a flat surface with. Just use some coarser abrasive cloth stuck down to a truly flat surface. Then,graduate to finer and finer. It will take a lot less work than doing the whole job with a fine wet or dry paper.

[David Weaver]

I think charles is advocating grinding a hollow in the middle of the back of the chisels, like one would do with his favorite chisel type- the japanese chisels.

A bit of advice to a first-time dremel grinder on any chisel that's not very wide, use it along the length of the chisel and not across the width or you stand a pretty good chance of catching and going over the edge and dinging it up.

I've never used one on a chisel, but I have caught a straight razor on a dremel wheel, which led to a pinging sound and a ruined razor. at the time, I thought I was nowhere close to the edge.

[bridger berdel]

it's a slick. a bit of convexity of the back isn't necessarily a bad thing. get it sharp and use it before you go doing any heavy grinding on it.

[Charlie Stanford]

I think charles is advocating grinding a hollow in the middle of the back of the chisels, like one would do with his favorite chisel type- the japanese chisels.

A bit of advice to a first-time dremel grinder on any chisel that's not very wide, use it along the length of the chisel and not across the width or you stand a pretty good chance of catching and going over the edge and dinging it up.

I've never used one on a chisel, but I have caught a straight razor on a dremel wheel, which led to a pinging sound and a ruined razor. at the time, I thought I was nowhere close to the edge.

Yep, but I have to give credit to Garrett Hack for the Dremel advice. One certainly doesn't need to grind Japanese style furrows into the chisel's back though. Just remove the convexity and create a little bit of a dip that will all be rectified and homogenized at the lapping stage. In other words, there will be no evidence of the Dremel's use when all is said and done. A tiny bit of concavity that laps right out to flat. It's a one-time deal. Once done, it's done.

On a slick, you could probably chuck a small diameter sanding drum in a 3/8" drill. Bridger brings up a good point in his post though - this is assuming the OP knows that he needs a flat back for the chisel's intended use. I won't presume to tell him for it would require mind reading.

To *hopefully* prevent any confusion about Hack: http://www.garretthack.com/index.aspx

[Jim Koepke]

I've been cleaning up a framing chisel that I recently purchased and would like to solicit help...

Jeff,

What is the size of this chisel?

Is it convex from side to side or over the length?

If it is a larger slick as Bridger suggests, a little "belly" (over the length) may actually be of an advantage for levering in and out of cuts.

jtk

[David Weaver]

To *hopefully* prevent any confusion about Hack: http://www.garretthack.com/index.aspx

I know a story. I won't tell it, though, but the coincidence here is funny.

[Jeff Bartley]

This chisel is only 1 1/2" wide, a framer, not a slick, and convex over it's length. My thoughts so far coincide with much of the above advise. I was thinking I'd take a piece of hardwood that is say, 2" wide, affix some course abrasive cloth, and while holding the chisel perpendicular to said hardwood abrade it crosswise. If I stay an inch or so away from the tip I would hope to remove enough material to then switch to the granite plate and commence the normal lapping routine. For what it's worth, the laminated part of the blade only extends about 4 1/2" from the tip. I really need to get some good close ups of this beast!
Also worth mentioning is my experience with evaporust......or what I'd call 'magic bath'! After a seven hour soak I spent all of 5 mins with some 0000 steel wool and it looks great! Let's see if I can work on some pictures.......

[Jeff Bartley]

I know a story. I won't tell it, though, but the coincidence here is funny.

Awh man! That's not fair David!!

[Charlie Stanford]

This chisel is only 1 1/2" wide, a framer, not a slick, and convex over it's length. My thoughts so far coincide with much of the above advise. I was thinking I'd take a piece of hardwood that is say, 2" wide, affix some course abrasive cloth, and while holding the chisel perpendicular to said hardwood abrade it crosswise. If I stay an inch or so away from the tip I would hope to remove enough material to then switch to the granite plate and commence the normal lapping routine. For what it's worth, the laminated part of the blade only extends about 4 1/2" from the tip. I really need to get some good close ups of this beast!
Also worth mentioning is my experience with evaporust......or what I'd call 'magic bath'! After a seven hour soak I spent all of 5 mins with some 0000 steel wool and it looks great! Let's see if I can work on some pictures.......

I've seen such a chisel rectified with an oscillating spindle sander with an appropriately sized drum installed. This was done by a very experienced craftsman in about five minutes. It didn't look overly harrowing but I wasn't the guy doing it. If you do this, unhook the sander from your dust control system first and vacuum the sander itself before you start.

I am disinclined to fool with a chisel like that myself. If I did, I'd probably wrap emery cloth around a dowel and attack it with elbow grease then move to a flat substrate of some sort when the chisel could be reliably registered. If you can, it's best to take the rock out of it before you go to a flat substrate.

[Jeff Bartley]

Let's see if I can add some pictures to the discussion!
Before cleanup:
247665

After the evaporust bath:

247666

and a close-up of the laminated blade:

247667

It's kinda beat up!

[george wilson]

Framing chisels have convex backs. The convex back allows for paring a timber. Leave it the way it is.

[Jeff Bartley]

Framing chisels have convex backs. The convex back allows for paring a timber. Leave it the way it is.

huh! I spent a couple years on a timber framing crew and most of the guys used Barr Quarton chisels, modern made but still hand forged. The Barr chisels were flat.
George, would you recommend only lapping the first couple inches? I owe ya one George, for the education and for saving me some serious time at the sharpening bench!!!!!

[Jeff Bartley]

it's a slick. a bit of convexity of the back isn't necessarily a bad thing. get it sharp and use it before you go doing any heavy grinding on it.

Bridger----it might not be a slick but your advise is right in line with George!

[Charlie Stanford]

If it's your intention to work with a flat back (that's your call) then lap as far up the back as the depth you intend to work to, and keep moving it back as you lose length through grinding and honing.

If you're working in a three inch deep hole it's no good to have the first inch flat and the next two bellied, or vice-versa (though that would be an odd occurence I suppose).

[george wilson]

Jeff,I haven't seen the new framing chisels,but worked on the ANTIQUE ones the housewrights would bring over to grind or repair(they also had blacksmith made ones,but I never worked on one of those) . They were convex,to work like a slick. Maybe yours were for mortising? I'm not a house wright,and can only tell you of the convex ones I saw. They could have also had flat ones. I sharpened their pit saws,made 6" wide crown molding planes and regular planes and made saws for everyone. But,making large,bitted chisels was the blacksmith's job.

P.S.: if you only have a short bit(I think I see one about 2" long),the rest of the chisel is soft,possibly wrought iron(see any wood grain looking figure there?) You could just hammer the chisel flat,but only reasonably flat. You might could draw file it after hammering,but that is still not for precision flattening. It will just get you closer. Don't hammer the BIT! It could break. I worked on an old one where the bit had separated from the place it was supposed to be welded. My only fix was to grind away the loose part and re bevel it. The bit had curled back like a fish hook,so I hardened it,too. Not all old tools were made perfectly,or made well. Best not go beating on the bit.

If the chisel is a pronounced convex curve,it was made that way for paring so the handle would clear the wood. Best to just accept it for what it is,and leave it that way. There are smaller socket chisels,down to 1/8" wide,that are quite convex,too. I have some,and have seen many. They are for paring,too.