Thinking of buying a 16" Porter Jointer but would like some other opinions

[Joshua Reid]

The following is what information I got form the owner:

This machine is belt driven with a 5 hp. 3450 rpm 230/460 volt 3 phase motor. A single phase motor could be used if need be. The bed length is 78"
It had the bearings replaced with sealed ball bearings at a machine shop here locally. No Grade was mentioned so I would assume ABEC 5. It has had only 200 hrs. or less use since. They also built the motor mount and belt guard.

The guard was a piece of plywood mounted on the original counterweight type balancer. I have the original which goes with the machine. I have another guard on it now. The jointer frame is a Porter built in 1901 which had a Babbitt Bearing head assembly. The Crescent Machine Co. head ( Circa. Early 50’s )is a well balanced 4 knife round head which always used Ball Bearings. Apparently Crescent made these heads available to upgrade older machinery as Tersa , Robland, Newman and others do now.

Is everything mentioned accurate? How hard would it be to convert to single phase? Or would a phase converter be the best option with might not be worth it price wise.

247542

[David Kumm]

Babbit conversion. You should verify the bearings. The later Porters used oil bath double row bearings that were very expensive. These are likely different so check out what they are. Find out if the table is original or reground. Put a straight edge across the width and verify there isn't a dip in the middle of the tables. Real old jointers that had a lot of wood run over the center developed that and you don't want to deal with that. Porter made some great jointers. You could go the VFD route and keep the original motor. Didn't mention price but should be under 2K. Dave

[Frank Drew]

David gives some excellent advice about the machine in general, and I agree that you could use the 3ph motor with a VFD or other converter, but if you want to go single phase that wouldn't be a problem with a belt drive.

Take a piece of wood with you when you go check out the machine, see if it joints true.

[Edward Dyas]

Do you really need a 16" jointer? I have faced hardwood on a 12" jointer when I was younger. I would hate to wrestle a 16" wide board across a jointer.

Unless it is a direct drive motor I think your best option would be to replace the motor with a single phase motor. I have a machine that uses a phase converter. It's a pain every time I want to use the machine I have to go turn on the phase converter on first and then the machine just to use for a couple of minutes. The machine I have has a direct drive irreplacable motor.

[Paul Murphy]

Do you really need a 16" jointer? I have faced hardwood on a 12" jointer when I was younger. I would hate to wrestle a 16" wide board across a jointer.


I have a 16" jointer, and I absolutely love the capability to joint wide boards and glue-ups. I wouldn't be without it, and 20" or 24" would be even sweeter ;).
I mounted a power feeder to it for really heavy slabs, but find that I really don't use the power feeder much at all. I cut all but the flattest stock to rough size before jointing, and so hand feed is fairly easy on waxed tables.
I converted my jointer to single phase, but in retrospect should have considered some sort of phase converter as lots of used machinery is 3 phase and I would have been set up for it.

Joshua, I would check the points David mentioned, but that jointer looks promising. If you buy it put some thought into a plan for moving the beast. Mounting to a skid built from 4x4 runners and 2x8 crossmembers was worth the effort in my instance.

Hope this pans out for you!

[Erik Loza]

Nice find there. I agree with Dave: Stay three-phase and get a VFD inverter, as Mreza did for his bandsaw. If that cutterhead weighs what I think it does, it might pop every breaker in your shop if you try to start it with a single-phase motor, LOL.

Best of luck,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Joshua Reid]

From what I understand the head was upgrade from the original in the 1950's sometime. They are sealed bearing but how do you tell what grade they are? He is asking 2350 but I am doing my research before negotiating.

Thanks for everyone's comments.

[David Kumm]

If the machine runs without vibration it will likely last be good to go. Sealed bearings last about 20 years so when they were last replaced is good to know. Chuck Hess has a cherry Porter 300 CM 12" for sale in the $2500 range. Oil bath bearings, 4 knife head. The 300 is the ultimate Porter and they go for 2500-4000 for reference. They had a swing away guard that was really nice for jointing boards wider than the machine. Dave

[Jeff Duncan]

I think you would have to get the numbers off the bearings and call the manufacturer, or a bearing wholesaler, to find out what the ABEC of them is. In reality I doubt they spent extra on ABEC 5's, but you never know. The 5's I would consider a bit overkill for a jointer anyway and wouldn't spend the extra for them myself. More importantly if it's running and cutting well, does it really matter what bearings are in there? Unless they are older and you want to replace them, in which case you pull the old ones and take them to your local bearing house and they'll set you up! Remember that the head was upgraded so whatever is in there is not original to the machine anyway.....just whatever the person that did the upgrade wanted to use;)

As for the motor I think I'd go the replacement route. I'd bet you could pick up a used 5 hp motor and pop it in there for less than the cost of the VFD.

Lastly I'd want to do several test cuts after checking the machine thoroughly. I'm very cautious about machines that have been "re-engineered". There are certainly machines out there that have been converted by competent people and will provide many years of reliable service. There are probably more though that were done poorly and only cause problems for buyers who are not careful.

good luck,
JeffD

[David Kumm]

Porter was about the only company that used ABEC 5 or sometimes 7 bearings. Oliver used really good ones too. If the jointer works well that is most important. From a resale standpoint, a babbit replacement with a substitute cutter head will bring less than a later original. Porter made very high quality heads and was considered a step or three above Crescent. you really need a good old machinery guy to judge the quality of the conversion to get to that price. Dave

[Joshua Reid]

Thank you everyone for the guidance.

[Brian Brightwell]

Thank you everyone for the guidance.

I have a 16 inch untronix running on homemade rotary converter and like it very much. It needs paint.
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy11/bebrightwell/DSC_0746.jpg
I paid 1700. I wish I had a guard or at least the hardware.
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy11/bebrightwell/P1010013.jpg
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy11/bebrightwell/P1010015.jpg

[David Kumm]

Brian, Czech? They made very heavy stuff. What is the lever on the floor? Dave

[Jeff Duncan]

[QUOTE=Brian Brightwell;2018426]I have a 16 inch untronix running on homemade rotary converter and like it very much. It needs paint.]


Why?

Looks fine to me:D

[Brian Brightwell]

Brian, Czech? They made very heavy stuff. What is the lever on the floor? Dave

Dave, this machine was made in Poland. I think it is sometimes called Polamco. The lever at the bottom of the machine is a foot pedal that works a brake on the motor. Why you need a brake I don't know.

[zayd alle]

Joshua,

In addition to the standard checks, check the quality of the cutterhead conversion closely or take someone with you who can. That's the only thing that really causes any reason to worry if not done well. The cutterhead itself is a solid performer.

As has been mentioned, these are excellent jointers. I have a 16" Porter and love it.

[David Kumm]

Dave, this machine was made in Poland. I think it is sometimes called Polamco. The lever at the bottom of the machine is a foot pedal that works a brake on the motor. Why you need a brake I don't know.

I've got a friend with that jointer and a shaper. Really great stuff. I put a short stop on my jointer or it ran for five minutes. Not good to move the guard if running. Dave

[Mel Fulks]

Some of those older machines were used like moulders, if you had to make an adjustment ,the brake was handy.

[Brian Brightwell]

Some of those older machines were used like moulders, if you had to make an adjustment ,the brake was handy.

Yes, I can see the brake would be helpful in that case.

[Jeff Duncan]

European machines are far and away ahead of American manufacturers in terms of safety. They had brakes on their machines while we were still deciding if we wanted guards! On a well made machine things will keep spinning for a while once the machine is turned off....not safe. As David mentioned the older industrial jointers would literally run for several minutes after shutting off! Therefore you install a brake so you can safely bring things to a stop before moving on. Nowadays schools and industrial settings in this country are either replacing, or revamping their older equipment with electronic braking, to bring them into the modern age. Unfortunately it will likely be many years before manufacturers start implementing these features on the smaller equipment many shops use:(

JeffD

[Jim Matthews]

I think you've set your sights too low.

Get something BIG (http://www.public.navy.mil/airfor/enterprise/Documents/Enterprise/public_relations.html)....

[Zach Callum]

That could be a great machine. I am curious about your level of experience. An old 16" jointer is alot of machine, and not everybody is capable of maintaining and operating one successfully.

[Keith Avery]

The real danger with this piece of equipment is realizing just how great some of the old stuff is and sliding down a very slippery slope.

[Jim Becker]

To the OP, that looks like a very nice machine to have if it's in good working order! I also agree with staying 3-phase and using a VFD or converter to deal with the conversion.

Brian, you could likely equip your machine with a Euro guard relatively easily and it would only require one hole to mount. I personally prefer Euro guards and on a wide machine, it's about the best way to go..."porkchops" just leave too much area exposed.

[Paul Murphy]

To the OP, that looks like a very nice machine to have if it's in good working order! I also agree with staying 3-phase and using a VFD or converter to deal with the conversion.

Brian, you could likely equip your machine with a Euro guard relatively easily and it would only require one hole to mount. I personally prefer Euro guards and on a wide machine, it's about the best way to go..."porkchops" just leave too much area exposed.

Another guard option is to build an "articulated porkchop" guard, where the widest part of the porkchop is sliced into ~ 1" segments which are chamfered along the cut line and kerfed at both ends ~mid thickness. Cordura tape is used to connect the segments by passing through the end kerfs, and is pinned in place with glue and a brass brad. I have this on my 16" jointer, and the segments hang off the side when jointing wide boards rather than getting in your way.248130
Not the best picture, but look past the top left of the desk just to the right of the blue hose. The articulated sections are alternating black & yellow.

[David Kumm]

Paul, I've seen those guards and they work great. The three toed Porters had the guard mounted and then secured with a pin. Pull the pin and the whole gaurd pivoted off the table and out of the way to allow for jointing boards wider than the table. Much better system than the Oliver swing away guard. Dave