Just bought a shaper and I have some questions.

[keith micinski]

I was on Craigslist and found a Grizzly G1035 and decided to click on it just to see what it was about. I new it was the small shaper that was one step up from a router and that I could use my router bits with it still and that was about the extent of my shaper knowledge. I have never felt the need for a shaper before as I built a pretty nice side table with a router lift and have a really nice Incra router fence. That having been said the little bit of reading I have done on shapers seems to say that there are more options and things you can do with them. The problem is I don't know what these are or the tooling I need to get started. I'll be honest with you, the main reason I bought the shaper was because I thought I was getting a pretty good deal on it. I got the shaper, a mobile base the dust collection fitting, a spindle that allows me to use my existing router bits, and two other shaper spindles with rub collars( which turn out to be bearings) and the cast iron table extension. I was wondering if someone could point me to some good videos on getting started with a shaper and also where I could look at getting some cutters that don't break the bank. This shaper is more of an experiment right now and I really don't want to have a boat load of money wrapped up into cutters.

[Dan Hahr]

I passed up a lot of good deals on shapers because I didn't want to spend a boat load of money on cutters.

With that said, I'd invest in one if I was making a lot of cabinet doors or cutting really heavy profiles regularly. I'm sure it is more useful than that, really.

Actually, I am really just waiting on a good deal that comes with a lot of shaper cutters.

Dan

[Peter Kelly]

The Shaper Book (http://www.amazon.com/Shaper-Book-Lonnie-Bird/dp/1561581208/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1354861967&sr=1-5&keywords=lonnie+bird) by Lonnie Bird is a good place to start.

[Guy Belleman]

+1 on the Shaper Book. I love my shaper of the same model. I did get an additional wing which can bolt to either side, which I put on the feed side and gives some good support. Make some good finger boards to hold material from the front and on top as it feeds through. Use a push stick. The shaper is much better than a router, IMHO.

[Chris Rosenberger]

As others have stated, books are a very good place to start.
Also check out Grizzly shaper cutters. They have some good cutters at good prices.

http://www.grizzly.com/search/search.aspx?q=shaper%20cutter&cachebuster=3821414042763031.5

[keith micinski]

I hope they have a digital copy of the Shaper book I cant stand reading anything other then my iPad any more. I noticed that Grizzly had some pretty reasonable cutter prices listed there. Has anyone modified the Grizzly shaper fence by any chance? THis thing really seems to be cheesy and feels like there is a lot of room for improvement. I like the fact that you can adjust the sides independent of each other but I don't like the fact that you have to adjust the sides and then true them up separately since none of the bits I currently use need an offset and I am not sure that it will ever become a big priority to me. I also would eventually like to get a feeder but will have to come up with a creative way to mount it since the table area is so small on this machine.I would like to get an optional wing for the infeed side but I haven't seen one for sale anywhere and might just end up making my own and see how that works.

[Larry Fox]

-1 on the Shaper book. I have it and there is not much info in there that you can't get in this forum or intuit for yourself.

[Paul Symchych]

Pretty much the same story. A good price on a nearly new Jet shaper prompted the purchase. I could certainly get by without one but it does run circles around a router table.

Grizzly cutters have been entirely satisfactory for me at way less money than the 'big' brands. Maple, hickory etc have been no obstacle.

Also, the Bird book is useful.

[Jeff Duncan]

Shaper tooling is not really like router tooling, the vast amount of tooling available for a shaper will blow you away! An expensive router bit may cost you upwards of $100, a half decent insert head for a shaper could cost you $1000! My recommendation in general is buy what you need when you need it. If you start doing a lot of work on it there are Euro heads and corrugated heads that can be very handy....but for occasional use probably not worth the expense. For now stick with the router bits and basic brazed cutters as you need them!

Fences on entry level shapers all leave a LOT to be desired so your not alone. If you don't need the fences to offset for now just take a piece of hardwood and attach it across both fence faces with just a notch cutout for your bits. This simple fence will eliminate 99% of alignment problems!

good luck,
JeffD

[keith micinski]

I thought about this but it appears that the shaper spindle will stick above the table quite a bit more then a router bit does and the solid fence would seem to get in the way. After doing a little looking it seems like I am going to have to build my own fence system unless I want to spend more on the fence then I did on the shaper itself.

[david brum]

Here (http://www.woodstore.net/pp-04-0014.html) is an instuctional video that I noticed lately. I haven't seen it, but Phil Lowe seems to know his stuff. He favors small shapers, so there's probably some useful info for you. I plan to watch it over the holidays.

As for your existing fence, there is a lot to be said for individually adjustable faces. As soon as you do some heavier cuts, even on tongue and groove, you'll appreciate the offset feature. What about mounting the fence body on a piece of mdf that spans the table top? You could clamp it on the ends, like a basic router table fence. You'd just need to make some taller fence faces, so they touch the table.

[Peter Quinn]

Infinity and mlcs are two other sources for small budget priced shaper cutters, EBay has a fairly regular stream of used cutters too once you learn what you are looking for, can be a good value. You aren't going to be spinning the larger stuff on a shaper that size, but cutters will still cost more an router bits. Fortunately they also give a better cut an their smaller diameter router counterparts, so the cost is not for nothing. Phil Lowe is a great teacher, I've watched a ton of his vids on FWW,s site, I'd definetly check out David's link. I've never seen another vid on shaper use.

As for fences, you are still thinking like a router user. The split fence with independent micro adjust is part of what separates router from shaper, and it adds a great deal to the quality of cuts and efficiency of the shaper. Im sure e small grizzly fence is probably not the ultimate shaper hood (the last hood i bought cost more than that shaper sells for new) , but id guess its more servicable an you imagine. The shaper can act like a jointer in its ability to take a full cut when producing a molded edge, a router struggles with that and usually shapes only part of an edge, often referencing some flat in the molding off a bearing. In the shop where I work and in my home shop there are a pile of special shaper fence plates, some split, some solid that bridge the two half's. The shaper hood is merely a starting point, a device to which you attach your shop made fence plates which aid in stock control, safety, can be zero clearance to reduce tear out. Actually I have a number of router fence plates that perform the same function, so there are parallels. But with the shaper it's more common to me to make custome fence plates for each job or certain processes. For raised panels I just made an entire separate hood,much as in the Lonnie Byrd book.

[keith micinski]

I get that there is a use for the individual fences but I sure don't like the inconvenience it brings to the table when I have been building things for 15 years and have never once thought gee I wish I had offset fences on my router, ( which my Incra actually does but has never been used now that I think about it.) I was looking at cutters today and it looks like I can get a matched rail and style bit set for about 65 dollars which is way cheaper then my set for my router table and unless I am missing something it looks like I don't have to change my setup I just have to change my cutters. If that is true then I am going to love this shaper if that is all I do with it. I hate messing around changing my bits and setup and getting out the set up blocks and the digital height gauge to get a good fit on my rail and style bits.

[Stephen Cherry]

I get that there is a use for the individual fences but I sure don't like the inconvenience it brings to the table when I have been building things for 15 years and have never once thought gee I wish I had offset fences on my router, ( which my Incra actually does but has never been used now that I think about it.) I was looking at cutters today and it looks like I can get a matched rail and style bit set for about 65 dollars which is way cheaper then my set for my router table and unless I am missing something it looks like I don't have to change my setup I just have to change my cutters. If that is true then I am going to love this shaper if that is all I do with it. I hate messing around changing my bits and setup and getting out the set up blocks and the digital height gauge to get a good fit on my rail and style bits.

If you want to make doors, you may want to take a look at my low buck cope thread:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?192685-Coping-on-a-tight-budget-(shaper-stuff)

Works pretty good, and super cheap. Note the simplicity of the fence. If you are going to cut the pattern on the same machine, you may want to make a two sided fence similar to the one in the thread. You would use the cope cut to set the fence, on both sides of the cutter, then make the pattern cut using the same setup.

For pattern raising, JR posted a panel fence a while back, which I "borrowed" and posted a picture of:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?191644-Corrugated-shaper-blades&p=1979326#post1979326

The advantage of this type of fence is there is nothing for the panel to hang up on.

[Rick Potter]

Keith,

I have two lite/medium duty Delta shapers. I have a basic assortment of 3/4" shaper cutters for them, but for what I do, including most raised panel doors I use router bits in them. Matter of fact, I just bought a new Freud panel raiser (router bit) yesterday, for the kitchen I am building. I already have a Freud shaper bit for that, but the new one takes a shallower cut, and I like it's looks better.

I have the original shaper fences, but have made router style fences which I use much more often, even for offset cuts. Just put a formica shim on the outfeed side. It cost me next to nothing to make the fences, just part board with melamine.

I use a router table for smaller cuts, but always go to the shaper for the panels and other larger cuts. Router bits work fine @ 10K RPM.

You will love the cast iron table, the hand wheel for adjustment, the lack of vibration, and most of all the quiet motor.

Rick Potter

EDIT: The reason I don't use the shaper fences very often is that they have just enough slop in them, that it is difficult to get them lined up perfectly. They are finger type fences, and you have to constantly tweak them or the outfeed side will not be parallel with the infeed.

[Peter Quinn]

I get that there is a use for the individual fences but I sure don't like the inconvenience it brings to the table when I have been building things for 15 years and have never once thought gee I wish I had offset fences on my router, ( which my Incra actually does but has never been used now that I think about it.) I was looking at cutters today and it looks like I can get a matched rail and style bit set for about 65 dollars which is way cheaper then my set for my router table and unless I am missing something it looks like I don't have to change my setup I just have to change my cutters. If that is true then I am going to love this shaper if that is all I do with it. I hate messing around changing my bits and setup and getting out the set up blocks and the digital height gauge to get a good fit on my rail and style bits.


Matched sets are a serviceable way to make doors, but less flexible than stacked sets, so the utility really depends on your use. I do some stuff with flat panels where the groove must match the plywood, I make some thicker doors, glass doors. These options often don't exist with solid reversible cutters, which at that price is what I assume you are seeing? A 5 or 6 cutter stack approaches $300, but you get a lot of flexibility. If you don't need it its a waste of money.

I'm not understanding the "inconvenience" factor you find in the split fence hood? I understand you have been working a certain way on the router table, and that makes sense on the router. You can certainly keep working with a straight fence on the shaper just by bridging the two halfs with one fence plate after setting them parallel, but a shaper gives you options. 90% of what I make on a shaper involves an offset fence set up. Almost every molded edge operation benefits from this technique. Moldings are more accurate, door edges are always fully formed. You quickly set the out feed fence to the cutters arc using a straight edge, you set the infeed fence to the depth of cut required, done. I still clamp or otherwise attach one piece fences to the hoods, in fact I will be today to make some panel grooves for carriage house doors. Once I learned to use the shaper like a jointer it changed my entire work flow. You can also skip the "hood" fences and use a "back fence" set up to shape and accurately dimension in one pass. I prefer to do that with a power feed, but others have posted set ups for safe hand feed with a back fence too. There are a number of excellent examples of back fences here in the archives. Mine is a hunk-o-wood with some sand paper on the bottom to keep if from shifting when clamped to the table.

The coping thread is a good one, coping almost never involves split fences. There are lots of ways to work with a shaper, and some parallel to the router table. I'd keep an open mind to new techniques, lots of versatility in that tool.

[david brum]

Peter, in reference to his stock Grizzly fence, the only way to move the fence faces is by advancing each side independently. For some reason, Grizzly designed the fence center/hood section of the fence so it bolts directly to the table top, with no adjustment. So each time fence adjustment is required, the faces have to be realigned with each other. It sounds like a pain.

To the OP, here is an illustration of what I'm suggesting for your fence. You basically attach your current fence to a board, which can be clamped anywhere you need, without worrying about fence alignment. BTW, please ignore the attachments. They don't work and I can't kill them.



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[Mark Bolton]

Kieth,
Your finding out that the shaper itself is trivial with regards to expense if your going to put one into use. This is true even if your buying a new import or used industrial machine. The accessories will quickly dwarf the cost of the shaper itself but the simple fact of the matter is the instant you put it to work you will realize why you made the investment.

IMO the very first thing you need to invest in is a feeder. A feeder is the single biggest asset in any shop and moreso if your running a shaper. Its a good safety add-on too but the real plus is increased production and increased quality. After that you can modify your fence and begin to invest in tooling. As others have stated the tooling budget will have to be substantial but if your using your shaper for much at all it will be well worth the investment. Our cope & stick/panel raising tooling for cabinet doors (insert) is well over 1K by the time your done. I would guess in my small shop I have 5k in tooling easily. Oella Saw and Tool is a great place to watch for shaper tooling at reduced costs. You can often pick up tooling far superior to Grizzly there for reasonable money.

Another great alternative is to invest in an import corrugated head and then you can have knives ground in a variety of materials depending on how much and what materials you plan to run. You can usually pick a head up for 200 or less and will likely be able to have knives ground for anywhere form 80-150 depending on the size of the profile.

The feeder is the key.

Congrats,
Mark

[Mark Wooden]

While the quick preview of the video in very informative, I'm betting he did not make the swan neck molding on that shaper, or any shaper in that class. More likely a W&H molder or machine like it.
It's disturbing that they put things like that in sales brochures and videos, prompts people to buy the wrong thing.

Yes, most rub collars are based on bearings so they don't burn the pattern and are less prone to kickback.
The shaper is a mainstay in any custom cabinet or millwork shop; I have 3 and can't imagine being without one.
The fences on many of those machines really could use some refinement but before you decide it's no good, do the reading and if you can, visit a cabinet/millwork shop and ask to watch a shaper in action. This will give you a much better understanding of what the operations of a fence are. One problem I've seen more often than not on those machines is the fence halves aren't coplanar. This can be corrected with a jointer. Other refinements can usually be made with a little tweaking here and there.

[keith micinski]

So, I spent all day getting the shaper ready to go. Unfortunately that involved dismantling the entire thing because the previous owner hadnt really done a good job of cleaning the cosmolene off of it and it was so gunked up you could hardly even move the spindle. On a side note I am pretty sure Grizzly is laughing at all of us and they arent really making any money on the tools they sell. Clearly they own a bunch of Cosmolene factory's and what they are really doing is just providing an outlet for it. The Gib screws and the gib plate were all screwed up to so I made the decision to just take it all apart and get it cleaned up and adjusted properly. Here is what it looked like before cleanup.

247433247434247435247436

I was a little disappointed with the quality of the machining on the castings they are pretty rough and I was going to clean them up with sand paper to try and get the operation a little smoother but I decided to wait since I haven't even used it yet and don't know what I have. This turned out to be a mistake. This is what I had after cleaning everything.

247437247438247441

I have messed with the gib screws and have gotten it as good as I cant get it. The motor hanging off of the bracket is massive considering the size of the machine and the lifting mechanism, so I am not real sure how smooth the up and down is going to be no matter what but the Rough machining in the keyways cant be helping any. I wish I would have just went ahead and did it while it was all apart but I didn't want to start messing with stuff before I learned about how it worked. Maybe that was the right decision but it sure is going to suck if I decide to take it apart again to clean it all up. One thing I will say is that even though it stinks to take a machine all apart before you even get to use it it is by far and away the best way to learn how a machine works and even gives you some insight into how to best operate it in the future.

[Rod Sheridan]

The only of the three shaper books I own that's not decades out of date is The Spindle Molder Handbook by Stephenson.

He covers modern machines and cutters, as well as safety considerations and accessories.

One of my most used cutter heads is the Euro Block style with HSS knives. The knives are in the $20 range and produce a flawless finish on solid wood. Purchase the unit with the chip limiters.

A rebate head is also a must have, I have a 125mm X50mm carbide insert head with scorers, great cutter.

A stock feeder of about 1/2 HP is invaluable for quality of work and safety.

Enjoy your shaper, I use mine a lot.........Rod.

[keith micinski]

While the quick preview of the video in very informative, I'm betting he did not make the swan neck molding on that shaper, or any shaper in that class. More likely a W&H molder or machine like it.
It's disturbing that they put things like that in sales brochures and videos, prompts people to buy the wrong thing.

Yes, most rub collars are based on bearings so they don't burn the pattern and are less prone to kickback.
The shaper is a mainstay in any custom cabinet or millwork shop; I have 3 and can't imagine being without one.
The fences on many of those machines really could use some refinement but before you decide it's no good, do the reading and if you can, visit a cabinet/millwork shop and ask to watch a shaper in action. This will give you a much better understanding of what the operations of a fence are. One problem I've seen more often than not on those machines is the fence halves aren't coplanar. This can be corrected with a jointer. Other refinements can usually be made with a little tweaking here and there.


Fence faces not being coplanar is an understatement. The fence originally came with 1/2 inch thick MDF pieces that were no where near coplanar. Shockingly the fence is perfectly square with the table but I still cant get over how bad a job they did on the fence castings and the machining the factory did. I took a piece of rift sawn oak I had laying around since it was the hardest most stable thing I had right now and countersunk the holes enough so that I could mount them on the fence and then joint the face. it took some time but everything turned out perfect and the fence is coplanar and square with the table. One thing the factory did get right was the machining on the lift mechanism so that the spindle is square to the table with out having to try and shim it. It took me way more time then I wanted it to but I have everything square and coplanar with the table, the fence, the cast iron wing, the insert, and the spindle.

[Mel Fulks]

I have the Stephenson book ,too. It is ,I think,lacking in info on the old style slotted shaper collars.The old Delta "getting the most out of your shaper" is still a good book, though a short one. And even though some consider collars "unsafe" they are still needed for things like stair rail fittings with small radius.Only one company still making them.

[Jeff Duncan]

Your learning why Grizzly shapers are so inexpensive compared to others;) FWIW the fence on my Poweratic 27, (which cost 3x more than the Grizzly), was pretty crappy also. The 5/8" thick scrap oak faces were certainly not coplaner and had to be shimmed to work properly. There were a handful of other things that kinda ticked me off considering how much it cost!!! Here's the thing though, if the spindle runs true and is at a 90 to the table....you can do a lot of work with it! I've now graduated to a much nicer high end machine and the difference is night and day, fence adjustments are independent and precise. Spindle height adjustment is smooth and accurate, and the whole quill assembly is as robust as a Sherman tank. When you boil it down though the shaper is a very simple machine and regardless if it's a Grizzly or a Martin....once you learn how to use it properly, you'll be able to do a LOT of work on it.

good luck,
JeffD

[Rod Sheridan]

http://www.felderusa.com/us-us/video/the-complete-workshop.html

Hi, for an introduction to things you can do with a shaper, the above Felder video is good.

You may have to register on their site to watch it.

Watch the entire presentation ( over an hour) which shows a shaper being used to make a desk, along with the other machines of course.............Rod.