Very Super Cool Table Saw Fence...

[Derek Arita]

Any have or are familiar with the Very Super Cool Tools table saw fence? Saw the Wood Whisperer do a little vid on them, so I took a look at the web site. Looks really neat. It's supposed to be dead flat, adjustable and versatile. I'd love to hear some feedback from someone who uses one.

[Jamie Buxton]

Any have or are familiar with the Very Super Cool Tools table saw fence? Saw the Wood Whisperer do a little vid on them, so I took a look at the web site. Looks really neat. It's supposed to be dead flat, adjustable and versatile. I'd love to hear some feedback from someone who uses one.

What web site? I googled the name, and got vsctools.com, which turned out to offer "An Extra Fast, Lockdown Secure, Super Happy ZippyKid Site".

[David Wong]

There home page looks like it got hi-jacked. The rest of their site looks like it is still up.

http://vsctools.com/shop/

[Derek Arita]

This is where I saw it. Actually, I first saw the vid, then went to the website. Wood Whisperer says it's dead flat, unlike my Biesemeyer that has undulations created by bolts that connect fence face to fence tube.

[glenn bradley]

It does look pretty cool and versatile. He doesn't mention if the 80/20 extrusion (http://www.8020.net/Default.asp) is just stock or if it is milled flat. "Dead flat" means different things to different people and extrusions are not "flat" without being milled (to my way of thinking about "flat" :)). I do like his ideas and the fence seems to be built like a beast (I mean that in a good way).

P.s. Putting new faces on your Beis is not a big deal. Varnished or shellac'd and waxed MDF makes a great fence face.

[Victor Robinson]

Agree with Glenn...it would have to be milled flat to be dead flat, as the 80/20 extrusions I have are not "dead flat." 80/20's tolerances for their stock extrusions are a little lax to be good enough for a "dead flat" tablesaw fence, so I imagine there must be some milling, either by 80/20, or VSC, somewhere along the line.

[David Wong]

Here is a link to a blog entry on the site that talks about the extrusions. He writes that the company uses 80/20 extrusions. There are some cool videos linked to that show manufacturers extrusion process.

http://vsctools.com/aluminum-extrusion/

Anyone know what the spec or tolerance for flat and parallelism is for the 80/20 extrusions?

[David Wong]

Answered my own question. I found this on page 154 of the 80/20 interactive catalog...

• Twist per foot of length not to exceed .25 degree and total twist over 20 feet of length not
to exceed 1.5 degrees.

• Flatness .004" per inch of width

• Straightness 0.0125" per foot of length, not to exceed .120" over 20 feet of length

[Carl Beckett]

That extrusion reminds me of automation structures. Like Bosch. Wonder if its just a section of this?

And if you like the concept, wonder if you could pick up a section of this at a liquidation auction and bolt it to your current setup.

[Phil Thien]

I like it.

I have a Ryobi BT3000 table saw (the saw people love to hate). It uses an aluminum extrusion that clamps front/back, and has t-slots for accessory fences. It works extremely well, and would be difficult for me to let go for a cabinet saw with a customary T-square fence like the Biesemeyer.

[ian maybury]

Think it's pretty likely all right Carl that the extrusions are those sold as a part of a modular machine framing system - in this case the 80:20 system for which there's a video showing its use in machine building on the linked page above. 'Item' in Germany http://www.mbsitem.co.uk/products/products.html were the first of these I saw back in the 80s when building manufacturing systems for a multinational.

Those tolerances are pretty loose to my mind David - compared at least to the level of flatness and straightness needed for a rip fence. Against that it's very likely that they are much flatter than those numbers in practice. It doesn't seem to be too hard to produce a straight extrusion - this is achieved by 'stretching' it. Literally grabbing the ends and pulling until the metal takes on a slight permanent set.

Controlling cupping and twisting is not so easy - I don't know how that is normally achieved but Incra/Incremental Tools somehow lightly skim/surface their fence extrusions before anodising - wish I knew what the process is and if its commercially available as I have another fence that needs doing. Even respectable machine makers like Hammer seem to suffer some issues in this regard - they don't skim theirs.

One issue I seem to find when using a fence made from a fairly large extrusion is that it can be awkward when the need arises to work thin and/or narrow pieces. Some commercial fences like that on the Hammer saws and I think the Vega are 'L' sectioned, and provide the option of low or high fence - they can be slid out and remounted lying on their side by using a different mounting slot.

I guess a consideration if using a commercial extrusion is just how to this and other set ups might be achieved. It at least has plenty of mounting slots, and is good and strong...

ian

[Eric DeSilva]

Why not just replace your bies face with some 80/20 extrusion? Doesn't seem like it would be hard to attach. You could also probably take the extrusion to a metal shop and get it milled dead flat and parallel for pretty cheap.

[Derek Arita]

Why not just replace your bies face with some 80/20 extrusion? Doesn't seem like it would be hard to attach. You could also probably take the extrusion to a metal shop and get it milled dead flat and parallel for pretty cheap.

I def thought about this. Some issues come to mind...
First, one of the problems with the Bies is that the tube itself, is not straight because of welds at the ends and dimpled holes for mounting the face. That's what deflects the OEM face. I suppose if I got the tube milled flat and parallel, it might work. Secondly, attaching the extrusion to one side of the fence would be fine, but what about the other side? I sometimes use my fence on the left side of the blade. Also, the Bies is already pretty heavy to start out with. Adding the weight of the extrusion would make it weigh a ton and I remove my fence regularly. Lastly, my Bies does not have the two plastic screws that allow you to make the fence face 90* to the table, so that might be another issue.
If this fence is as flat as the they say it is, then I'm sold. The price is not unreasonable and it looks solid as a rock. I've spent hours with shims and a straight edge trying to flatten my Bies and other Bies style fences and I just can't get it, yet I like the way the Bies moves on the table. I'm hoping the extruded fence has a similar feel.

[johnny means]

One thing to keep in mind is that 80/20 is not designed to be flat. The faces of the T-slots are sloped inwards. It's designed this way to act as a spring washer when a bolt is tightened down. In use, the t-slot will take on slight dents when used.

[Phil Thien]

I def thought about this. Some issues come to mind...
First, one of the problems with the Bies is that the tube itself, is not straight because of welds at the ends and dimpled holes for mounting the face. That's what deflects the OEM face. I suppose if I got the tube milled flat and parallel, it might work. Secondly, attaching the extrusion to one side of the fence would be fine, but what about the other side? I sometimes use my fence on the left side of the blade. Also, the Bies is already pretty heavy to start out with. Adding the weight of the extrusion would make it weigh a ton and I remove my fence regularly. Lastly, my Bies does not have the two plastic screws that allow you to make the fence face 90* to the table, so that might be another issue.
If this fence is as flat as the they say it is, then I'm sold. The price is not unreasonable and it looks solid as a rock. I've spent hours with shims and a straight edge trying to flatten my Bies and other Bies style fences and I just can't get it, yet I like the way the Bies moves on the table. I'm hoping the extruded fence has a similar feel.

Well, you could always replace the faces with some plywood faces with t-slots routed into them. I use the Rockler and Whiteside bits to add slots to plywood all the time. I never buy t-slot extrusion, the routed plywood is plenty sturdy.

[Brian Elfert]

The 80/20 extrusions I have seem to be straight and flat, but I never paid that much attention as my application doesn't require any real precision. While 80/20 extrusions for the most part are probably going to be flat and straight the manufacturer doesn't guarantee they will be perfectly flat or straight. The vast majority of 80/20 applications don't require the same level of precision as we might expect.

[joe milana]

I wonder how repeatable the accuracy of the fence is when the extrusion is removed, then replaced?

[Derek Arita]

I wonder how repeatable the accuracy of the fence is when the extrusion is removed, then replaced?
From what I understand, when the extrusion is moved, it has to be realigned. Allen Little told me that nothing manufactured is dead flat, but all of his extrusions have been as flat as his best 48" straight edges, to within .001". He offers a money back guaranty on that. If it's very close to that flat, I'm sure I'll be a happy camper. I also like that I can easily add an auxiliary face to the fence. If the extrusion is flat, then the aux face should be relatively flat as well. That's the problem with my Bies...the tube isn't flat, so nothing attached to it, will be flat. Anyhow, I've got my fingers crossed.

[Mark Carlson]

I liked the idea and ordered the 48in 40x100mm version. They had me at the slots work with festool clamps. Its currently back ordered till the 15th. I'm already scheming on how to create a tenoning attachment with linear bearing pads. Those are ordered too, from 80/20 inc.

[Rick Potter]

Is this the same guy who posted the neat article on making your own Beis style fence?

I really like it too, just because of the weight of the normal Beis fence. I have one, as well as a Unifence, and I like the Unifence better and it seems just as accurate to me. I also got an aftermarket aluminum extrusion from Peachtree for the Unifence, and later went back to the regular extrusion because it was straighter, although not much difference.

Rick Potter

[keith micinski]

I went the opposite way of Rick. I have had my Peachtree extrusion for my unifence for a couple years and love it. I have wondered for years why people have been so big on the Beis when the unifence was available. I also wonder why Delta didn't make the unifence with this type of an extrusion to begin with. I have never liked the fact that most Beis style fences don't come with the screws that allow you to square it to the table. I am glad that they included those in this fence.

[Derek Arita]

I liked the idea and ordered the 48in 40x100mm version. They had me at the slots work with festool clamps. Its currently back ordered till the 15th. I'm already scheming on how to create a tenoning attachment with linear bearing pads. Those are ordered too, from 80/20 inc.

Yeah Mark...this is going to be fun! I have Festool stuff as well, so the clamping ability will be nice. I went 42" to start with, just because my Bies is about 42" and if I like, I can always order the longer version as well. I'm already figuring on a short and tall auxiliary fence faces and maybe a sacrificial one for my dado blade...just to start with.

[Mark Carlson]

Yeah Mark...this is going to be fun! I have Festool stuff as well, so the clamping ability will be nice. I went 42" to start with, just because my Bies is about 42" and if I like, I can always order the longer version as well. I'm already figuring on a short and tall auxiliary fence faces and maybe a sacrificial one for my dado blade...just to start with.

I'm with yeah. I hope it comes before xmas so I have a lot of time off to play with it over the break. Over the years I bought a lot of stuff I've never used, like board buddies and feather boards that I could actually see using with this fence. I wont be tossing the b-meyer fence but like the idea of switching out fences configured to a specific purpose.

Or maybe I just have a tool acquiring addiction. Some tools I'm glad I bought from small vendors that are no longer available. Original mini clearvue cv06 cyclone and the quality grinding steel router extension made to fit my cabinet saw and router plate.

[joe milana]

From what I understand, when the extrusion is moved, it has to be realigned.

Does that mean that every time you say, rotate the fence from vertical to horizontal you have to align the fence? Then when you rotate it back to vertical, you have to align again? That would be a deal breaker for me.

[Curt Harms]

Does that mean that every time you say, rotate the fence from vertical to horizontal you have to align the fence? Then when you rotate it back to vertical, you have to align again? That would be a deal breaker for me.

Me too. From what I can see of the fence attachment, you'd need some sort of no-slop method of attaching the fence extrusion to head, seems like it'd be pretty involved/expensive. I wonder if you can slide the fence extrusion back to make it a 'stubby' fence to use as a stop or for ripping without losing alignment. I have a Mule Cab fence which has 1 T slot in each of the 3 faces. It's easy to make 'sub fences' and other jigs that attach via the T slots. That has worked out pretty well for me.

[John Piwaron]

I looked at the video and saw the user cutting a tenon with a fixture made with some of that aluminum extrusion that slid on the fence. Cool! I need to make one for my new Biesemeyer fence. The one I have for my old one is the homeshop size.

I went to their site and see the basic fence but no cool sliding attachments. So I'm sorry, but I'm much less than impressed. I don't especially want a Biesemeyer replacement. But I might talk myself into one like this if there were also a lot of cool attachments like that sliding tenon jig that they've already done all the thinking for. To me, that's the point of buying a tool. Someone else has done the hard work of figuring out how to make it work and how to integrate it with the tool. Saw in this case. If I'm going to do that, I'm going to save my money and stay with my Biesemeyer.

[Derek Arita]

From what I understand, the guys that are offering this fence are guys like us. They had issues with their Bies style fences and came up with a general solution. The idea is for us as individuals, to come up with our own solutions to our own particular needs, based on the versatility of this fence...that is the ability to add fixtures onto this fence or even use different extrusions on the T Square. They are still developing some basic add-on aux fences, but nothing we couldn't just make ourselves and they encourage this.
By the way, many different aux fences can be added with no adjustments to the main fence. This is one of the main reasons I decided to jump in and get one of these. I want to make a basic aux fence like the face of my Bies. I also want to be able to slide that fence off and replace it with a sacrificial fence for use with my dado blade. I sometimes use Board Buddies and I believe those can slide onto the top track. I'd like to make a short aux fence to use as a stop for repeat cross cutting.
Can I do all of these things with the Bies...probably, but the difference will be that all aux fences added to the VSC fence, will have a base fence that is straight and each of these attachments should be equally straight. My Bies doesn't offer that base and all attachments are done with clamps, that get in the way. Besides, it will be fun to make the attachments and come up with new ones. It might also be cool to able to use other extrusions, depending on need. Yes, they would have to be realigned, but if I do use another extrusion, it will be for long term, rather than for one operation, so that's not a big deal...just to be able to switch to another extrusion at a nominal cost, would be a benefit.
If the extrusions are as straight as Allen says they are, I think this will be a great fence. At any rate, they begin shipping next week, so personally, I can't wait to get mine.

[Michael Mahan]

reviving an old thread to ask . . . . . . . .

did any of guys get one of these ?

how's is it working out for you ?

[David Zaret]

i have this fence, and i like it. the bies clone that came with my general 650 was never flat, straight, or perpendicular to the table. i replaced the face early on, and it was closer, but i decided to try the vsctools fence, and i really like it. my board buddies work flawlessly with it.

[Don Huffer]

It does look pretty cool and versatile. He doesn't mention if the 80/20 extrusion (http://www.8020.net/Default.asp) is just stock or if it is milled flat. "Dead flat" means different things to different people and extrusions are not "flat" without being milled (to my way of thinking about "flat" :)). I do like his ideas and the fence seems to be built like a beast (I mean that in a good way).

P.s. Putting new faces on your Beis is not a big deal. Varnished or shellac'd and waxed MDF makes a great fence face.

All the 8020 material is as dead flat as its going to get. If one were to alter the surface it would remove the anodizing and render it useless.

[Don Huffer]

If anyone is looking for a bearing to slide on this extrusion. They should buy the parts from 8020 on eBay and put the bearings together yourself. They sell shim stock too and when your finished it will work better that bearings already assembled.

[Michael Mahan]

287182287183
I ordered this THK bearing & rail from VSCT this last week ( the one I got is a double bearing rail like in the below Video)
these are a Japanese high tolerance rail & matching bearings .
gonna make a tenon jig for the VSCT Tee Square & extrusion fence
Allen's how to video here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SgsVktMCDc

I got a great deal on a few 80/20 Extrusions @ 80/20's fleabay Garage sale store for a fraction of what VSCT & 80/20 sells at retail

[Derek Arita]

Guess I should follow this thread up with what I finally did. I bought one of the fences. I was expecting the fence to be dead flat as that's what I was told. The extrusion that I got was not even close to dead flat. It was not even as flat as my Bies. It also had a twist to it.
Something that I did not anticipate was that the extrusion that overhangs the channels that run the length of the fence, are slightly recessed. That means that besides the obvious channels themselves, the fence face waves in and out and in and out as you go from table o top of fence. I hope I'm making myself clear. To add to that, the T structure and locking handle was just not very well made.
When I went to return the fence, Allen was not very happy with me, however he did end up accepting my unused return. I happily returned to using my Bies.

[Michael Mahan]

All the 8020 material is as dead flat as its going to get. If one were to alter the surface it would remove the anodizing and render it useless.
Allen has address the flatness issue with this very recent video
(Disclaimer I am in no way an employee & I do NOT get any considerations in any form from VSCTools I have dealt with Allen as a satisfied customer only)
I've been buying 80/20 for years before I ever seen or heard about VSCTools

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b18EixWRxo

[Don Huffer]

Is this the same guy who posted the neat article on making your own Beis style fence?

I really like it too, just because of the weight of the normal Beis fence. I have one, as well as a Unifence, and I like the Unifence better and it seems just as accurate to me. I also got an aftermarket aluminum extrusion from Peachtree for the Unifence, and later went back to the regular extrusion because it was straighter, although not much difference.

Rick Potter

What does the Peachtree extrusion look like or do for you?

[Don Huffer]

Allen has address the flatness issue with this very recent video
(Disclaimer I am in no way an employee & I do NOT get any considerations in any form from VSCTools I have dealt with Allen as a satisfied customer only)
I've been buying 80/20 for years before I ever seen or heard about VSCTools
YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b18EixWRxo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b18EixWRxo)

I guess the flatness doesn't really bother me as long as its not too much. But some just take the thousandths way too far.

I was disappointed to hear the fence has no way of coming off and going on without realigning. But I don't know, maybe you don't pull it on and off like I do my Unifence.

[Michael Mahan]

it's my understanding that just when the extrusion is actually changed it'd need realigning then but not when just pulling the unit off the table & then replacing back on .

[Don Huffer]

<img src="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=287182"/><img src="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=287183"/>
I ordered this THK bearing & rail from VSCT this last week ( the one I got is a double bearing rail like in the below Video)
these are a Japanese high tolerance rail & matching bearings .
gonna make a tenon jig for the VSCT Tee Square & extrusion fence
Allen's how to video here
YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SgsVktMCDc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SgsVktMCDc)

I got a great deal on a few 80/20 Extrusions @ 80/20's fleabay Garage sale store for a fraction of what VSCT & 80/20 sells at retail

Are you getting the Tenonmaker from Bridge City tools too.

[Michael Mahan]

Are you getting the Tenonmaker from Bridge City tools too. Ya mean this ??
http://www.bridgecitytools.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/m/tm1_20.jpg

then yeah I got one already in hand & the Kerf maker as well expensive but Very Handy , a real time & hassle saver
http://www.bridgecitytools.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/k/m/km1_06.jpg

[Don Huffer]

Ya mean this ??

then yeah I got one already in hand & the Kerf maker as well expensive but Very Handy , a real time & hassle saver


I've built my own Kerfmakers out of aluminum and wood. Haven't tried the other one.

287196

[Michael Mahan]

Nice , ( the Kerf Maker is just a scaled down version of the Tenon Maker )
I'd make one but really I have my hands full right now , too many balls in the air already L O L
for me these simple Bridge City jigs just make it easy on my brain when setting up a cut & I make less mistakes when I have well thought out jigs .
the tenoning jig that Allen made has appealed to me from the 1st time i seen his video . A I gotta have that moment
I was finally able to get the double THK bearing rail & that has pushed me to finally get the VSCTools TeeSquare .
I'm not concerned with the perceived extrusion flatness issue as I've have more than a few extrusions in the shop & they are flat .
I haven't found one yet that I have that has any lenght waviness , twists ,bends or bows (I've got at least 20 of various sizes, 6 of the 8 footers )
the extrusions I have already are flat & straight when checked on my expensive PeachTree 50" straight edge
The slot up/down waviness is easy to over come with a sacrificial fence if it's ever a issue that needs addressing
the 80/20 slots are made that way to add tension . knowing that going in then it's not an issue
the fact that you can add anything you can dream of to the fence out weights a flatness issue in my use

The only complaint I've heard on the VSCTools Tee square rig is the round hold down ball on the lever ,
some have said it slightly uncomfortable with alotta use & I plan on replacing that with a oblong oval one as soon I can .

[Rick Potter]

Don,

You can see the Peachtree extrusion on their website. The main reason I got it was because it has t-slots you can use for jigs.

I still use the regular Unifence a lot more, though.

Rick Potter

[Stan Krupowies]

I got the VSC Tools fence to replace my Bies about 2 months ago and so far am very happy with it. Set up was simple and straight forward. The extrusion is not dead flat, there is a slight (about .005") dip in it which begins a little before the leading edge of the blade and ends about the trailing edge of the blade. If I just took two measurements - one at the leading edge of the table and one at the trailing edge of the table it would appear to be dead flat. I only see the dip when I run my dial gauge along the length of the miter slot. Even with the slight dip it's a whole lot flatter than my Bies was! I don't think that .005" dip will affect my work that much - I'm not that precise!

I've only used it for ripping and rabbets and attaching the sac fence is a piece of cake. I'll let you know when I start attaching other jigs to it.

[Rod Sheridan]

I guess the flatness doesn't really bother me as long as its not too much. But some just take the thousandths way too far.

I was disappointed to hear the fence has no way of coming off and going on without realigning. But I don't know, maybe you don't pull it on and off like I do my Unifence.

Hi, to me that's a major issue.

At first I thought it was going to be a Euro or Unifence design where you could have it short/long and low/high, however if you have to re-align it every time that wouldn't be possible........Rod.

[Mark Carlson]

I must have got lucky because mine is very straight along its length. Maybe a .001 if I run a dial indicator across it. The flatness across its height doesn't bother me because I mount a 1/2 baltic birch face to the front which makes the vertical perfect. Much better than my b-meyer fence. I got it because the slots allow for all kinds of mounting options. Great fence.

~mark

[Ted Miller]

I did purchase one of these fences and it turned out to be one of the worst tools I have bought in a long time. The deflection on this set up was terrible. The four locking nuts all in a row holding onto a 42"-48" long piece of aluminum was not a very good design in my eyes. But I thought I would give it a try though. I did go directly to 80/20 and bought 4 other extrusions to use with this new head. But the deflection increased with the longer fences. I had a Uni back in the day, that fence was a good design and very stiff even though it used a aluminum fence, but the head worked as a backstop to support the fence. The T style fences are very tough, rigid and no deflection, even though faces need to be worked on here and there to get them flat with either stock or UHMW material.

Jeff did follow up with me after I made the purchase, I did have a issue with the locking handle not gripping to my fence tube, being euro and not quite 2x4 as most bies designs. We figured out how to make the locking knob work, but the deflection was still a major problem for me, not only for squaring up work but for safety. Jeff talked to Allen and of course it was me and not the fence design at all. I guess working on TS since '79 I have no idea how to use one correctly.

I did let two other buddies who own cabinet shops try this new fence, they both gave it back to me after one day and said no thanks, they both had deflection issues as well. It's collecting dust somewhere, Like I told Jeff, just another bad tool purchase business right off...

[Don Huffer]

Nice , ( the Kerf Maker is just a scaled down version of the Tenon Maker )
I'd make one but really I have my hands full right now , too many balls in the air already L O L
for me these simple Bridge City jigs just make it easy on my brain when setting up a cut & I make less mistakes when I have well thought out jigs .
the tenoning jig that Allen made has appealed to me from the 1st time i seen his video . A I gotta have that moment
I was finally able to get the double THK bearing rail & that has pushed me to finally get the VSCTools TeeSquare .
I'm not concerned with the perceived extrusion flatness issue as I've have more than a few extrusions in the shop & they are flat .
I haven't found one yet that I have that has any lenght waviness , twists ,bends or bows (I've got at least 20 of various sizes, 6 of the 8 footers )
the extrusions I have already are flat & straight when checked on my expensive PeachTree 50" straight edge
The slot up/down waviness is easy to over come with a sacrificial fence if it's ever a issue that needs addressing
the 80/20 slots are made that way to add tension . knowing that going in then it's not an issue
the fact that you can add anything you can dream of to the fence out weights a flatness issue in my use

The only complaint I've heard on the VSCTools Tee square rig is the round hold down ball on the lever ,
some have said it slightly uncomfortable with alotta use & I plan on replacing that with a oblong oval one as soon I can .

Did you check EBay for those THK bearings?

[Don Huffer]

Don,

You can see the Peachtree extrusion on their website. The main reason I got it was because it has t-slots you can use for jigs.

I still use the regular Unifence a lot more, though.

Rick Potter

Rick
I've been woodworking since 1964 and never heard of Peachtree except as a doors and windows. Will Google bring them up?

[Don Huffer]

Hi, to me that's a major issue.

At first I thought it was going to be a Euro or Unifence design where you could have it short/long and low/high, however if you have to re-align it every time that wouldn't be possible........Rod.

Right. But if you can't find a Uni and can't afford a Biesemyer. Best off building one. After looking at both fences I would much rather build one. All the parts are off the shelf. I've built two Biesemyer fences and would never shell out the cash for another one.

[Michael Mahan]

Did you check EBay for those THK bearings?the prices are high on Fleabay , these ( The Rails ) are salvage off printing presses & are like new in condition . they get them on a limited basis . The two bearings attached are brand new unused so the price is reasonable to me .

[Michael Mahan]

Right. But if you can't find a Uni and can't afford a Biesemyer. Best off building one. After looking at both fences I would much rather build one. All the parts are off the shelf. I've built two Biesemyer fences and would never shell out the cash for another one.
If I had welding EQ I'd be making my own as well .
I plan on using the Tee as an accessory for when my needs require flexibility , I won't be selling my SawStop fence in any case .

[Don Huffer]

the prices are high on Fleabay , these ( The Rails ) are salvage off printing presses & are like new in condition . they get them on a limited basis . The two bearings attached are brand new unused so the price is reasonable to me .

I've never found anything lower in price than EBay. To this day Amazon has never beat EBay for anything I'm buying.

Good for you. Do you do a lot of tenon work on the table saw? Does the bearing and track stay on the fence all the time?

I just use a tall square board and push them on my fence.

[Don Huffer]

the prices are high on Fleabay , these ( The Rails ) are salvage off printing presses & are like new in condition . they get them on a limited basis . The two bearings attached are brand new unused so the price is reasonable to me .

item2ed0c120a4

This looks like it would work. And I could slide my car on it too.

[Michael Mahan]

This looks like it would work. And I could slide my car on it too.
22" too short for my application & the grease fittings are at the side in the way . the one I have now is 38" & bearings have grease fittings at the ends
I am looking for a pair of 50" rails for sliding table I envision for the TS


I've never found anything lower in price than EBay. To this day Amazon has never beat EBay for anything I'm buying.

Good for you. Do you do a lot of tenon work on the table saw? Does the bearing and track stay on the fence all the time?

I just use a tall square board and push them on my fence. ? Amazon ? Never said anything about Amazon
yeah the rail will be on the extrusion all the time , it's jig fence for quick set-up swapped as needed

[Don Huffer]

22" too short for my application & the grease fittings are at the side in the way . the one I have now is 38" & bearings have grease fittings at the ends
I am looking for a pair of 50" rails for sliding table I envision for the TS

? Amazon ? Never said anything about Amazon
yeah the rail will be on the extrusion all the time , it's jig fence for quick set-up swapped as needed

Well as far as sliding tables go. Even the multi thousand dollar models have trouble with staying true. It's just too easy to get good cross cuts with a sled to bother with building a slider.

Why do your rails on the fence have to be so long? Also I doubt if you will need to grease the bearings after you do it once. With the use your going to give them it would take a long time before they will need grease.

[Michael Mahan]

Well as far as sliding tables go. Even the multi thousand dollar models have trouble with staying true. It's just too easy to get good cross cuts with a sled to bother with building a slider.

Why do your rails on the fence have to be so long? Also I doubt if you will need to grease the bearings after you do it once. With the use your going to give them it would take a long time before they will need grease. convenience & I don't want to be limited , too long is better than too short . the ultimate goal is total flexibility .
Grease is not an issue but a grease fitting hanging 1/2" off the side of the bearing is . the bearings I have now have the fitting above the rail facing out @ the ends
I'll build the slider because I can & I've seen some slides that work as good or better as a miter on large panels , I work with larger trapezoidal shaped panels at times & I need accurate repeatability

[Curt Harms]

Hi, to me that's a major issue.

At first I thought it was going to be a Euro or Unifence design where you could have it short/long and low/high, however if you have to re-align it every time that wouldn't be possible........Rod.

I've been thinking about this topic (always a risky thing:o). The alignment issue might be pretty easy to solve. Assuming the standard table saw alignment procedure - align the blade to one of the miter slots - how would this work? Get a piece of HDPE plastic or other stable material, work it so it fits SNUG in that miter slot and sticks up 1/2" /13mm or so. Insert the strip, slide the fence against the strip and tighten.


Would that be accurate enough?
Too much of a PITA to be practical?

Yes, you'd have to do this every time you went high/low or short/long.

[Mark Carlson]

Curt,

Thats how I initially setup my fence and is how they recommend you do it in the setup videos. I use a 3/4 in aluminum bar that fitssnugly in the miter slot. Its quick an easy and it accurate. I did it just the once and ran I dial indicator down the slot and it looked great. Should be repeatable but I dont know because I dont switch out my fence. I do attach fence faces of varying heights.

~mark


I've been thinking about this topic (always a risky thing:o). The alignment issue might be pretty easy to solve. Assuming the standard table saw alignment procedure - align the blade to one of the miter slots - how would this work? Get a piece of HDPE plastic or other stable material, work it so it fits SNUG in that miter slot and sticks up 1/2" /13mm or so. Insert the strip, slide the fence against the strip and tighten.


Would that be accurate enough?
Too much of a PITA to be practical?

Yes, you'd have to do this every time you went high/low or short/long.

[Michael Mahan]

Curt,

Thats how I initially setup my fence and is how they recommend you do it in the setup videos. I use a 3/4 in aluminum bar that fitssnugly in the miter slot. Its quick an easy and it accurate. I did it just the once and ran I dial indicator down the slot and it looked great. Should be repeatable but I dont know because I dont switch out my fence. I do attach fence faces of varying heights.

~mark I like the AL bar idea just happen to have one BTW
that sounds like it's very easy & quick to set , I'll report back when I'm setup my extrusion is on order & shipped from 80/20
with the tenon jig ,the rail & bearing is shipped as well so be a week or so & I should be up & running .
I'll make my own laminate high fence that's easy peasy

[Don Huffer]

I like the AL bar idea just happen to have one BTW
that sounds like it's very easy & quick to set , I'll report back when I'm setup my extrusion is on order & shipped from 80/20
with the tenon jig ,the rail & bearing is shipped as well so be a week or so & I should be up & running .
I'll make my own laminate high fence that's easy peasy

Please share pictures when you have it together.

[Mark Carlson]

I'd like to see pictures of your linear bearing setup.

[Chuck Scheuermann]

Wow, wish I'd seen this before I bought it.
I immediately saw the deflection of the aluminum. I turned the rail the other way and it still deflects on the far side of the 42" extrusion. I'm thinking its at the connection where it mounts on the cross rail. Is it the aluminum? hard to tell. I still have to figure it out.. It upsets me we have to reengineer things we buy that almost never are as good as they say and even are approaching garbage if we can't use them!
Chuck

[Ted Miller]

Wow, wish I'd seen this before I bought it.
I immediately saw the deflection of the aluminum. I turned the rail the other way and it still deflects on the far side of the 42" extrusion. I'm thinking its at the connection where it mounts on the cross rail. Is it the aluminum? hard to tell. I still have to figure it out.. It upsets me we have to reengineer things we buy that almost never are as good as they say and even are approaching garbage if we can't use them!
Chuck

Chuck, I did order a few other extrusions directly from 80/20 in different thickness and they all had a lot of deflection, 42" and 48".

When I spoke with Jeff @ VSCT about the way the 4 locking nuts hold the fence, it would be much more rigid if the nuts we side by side in two rows and maybe the deflection would not be so bad...

[Don Huffer]

Chuck, I did order a few other extrusions directly from 80/20 in different thickness and they all had a lot of deflection, 42" and 48".

When I spoke with Jeff @ VSCT about the way the 4 locking nuts hold the fence, it would be much more rigid if the nuts we side by side in two rows and maybe the deflection would not be so bad...

If I may add. I have a Unisaw with the Unifence. Had it 28 years. My fence deflects too but it hasn't made a hills bit of difference in all those years.

[Mark Carlson]

I'm seeing very little deflection if I press on the end of my VSC fence. I dont press against the end of the fence when using it so I dont worry about it. Note: I got the same amount of deflection or more with my General b-meyer fence which is very heavy duty. I'm not sure theres a fence without a rear lock that doesn't deflect a little if pressed near the end.

[Ted Miller]

If I may add. I have a Unisaw with the Unifence. Had it 28 years. My fence deflects too but it hasn't made a hills bit of difference in all those years.

Had the same saw in '79, that fence had deflection, sold that saw and went with a PM that had the T-style and had no deflection. I did try the Incra style fence on the cabinet saw I have now, that fence has 3 points of hold down, but the 30" travel was a PIA to deal with. Tried many a fence in my day and found for me Aluminum is not the way to go.

Ripping 8' and 10' sheets of double sided MDF as well as full size Ply, you need a very solid fence...

[Matt Meiser]

Thanks to everyone who posted in this thread for offering real world experiences. It sure does seem like there are a lot of small time tool companies out there that have a good idea but poorly execute the final product.

[Greg Hines, MD]

Kinda off topic, but I really like what he does with the work table on his youtube series of videos.

Doc

[Don Huffer]

Had the same saw in '79, that fence had deflection, sold that saw and went with a PM that had the T-style and had no deflection. I did try the Incra style fence on the cabinet saw I have now, that fence has 3 points of hold down, but the 30" travel was a PIA to deal with. Tried many a fence in my day and found for me Aluminum is not the way to go.

Ripping 8' and 10' sheets of double sided MDF as well as full size Ply, you need a very solid fence...

No, I'd have to say no matter what I rip. My saw is built as strong as it needs to be. I'm sure thousands of Uni owners would agree. My point was meant to point out that we really don't need to get too preoccupied with all the thousandths in our woodworking.

Al