Benchtop - wood or mdf

[Dennis Petrillo]

Hi All

I built a Benchtop base out of maple and now am looking at bench tops.

I'm looking to buy a ready made maple top and found some good sources at reasonable prices and was also considering 2 sheets of 3/4" plywood topped with a 3/4" sheet of MDF.

I want to spend more time working with hand tools so my basic question is are there drawbacks to the MDF solution working with hand tools....this solution is something I can do myself rather quickly but don't want to be trading up in 6 months regretting I didn't buy a solid top to begin with.

Thanks in advance for any feedback

Dennis

[Stanley Covington]

Hi All

I built a Benchtop base out of maple and now am looking at bench tops.

I'm looking to buy a ready made maple top and found some good sources at reasonable prices and was also considering 2 sheets of 3/4" plywood topped with a 3/4" sheet of MDF.

I want to spend more time working with hand tools so my basic question is are there drawbacks to the MDF solution working with hand tools....this solution is something I can do myself rather quickly but don't want to be trading up in 6 months regretting I didn't buy a solid top to begin with.

Dennis

A solid benchtop is the best solution, unless you like doing things twice. Reasons:

1. You already have a maple base requiring a significant investment of time and material. Assuming it is adequately stable and rigid, it will last many years. Such a base deserves a quality solid wood top, even if that wood is not maple.

2. MDF will delaminate and crumble over time and with stress, eventually becoming garbage. But before it goes into the landfill, it will irritate you, embarrass you, and maybe even hold back your progress in becoming proficient with handtools. On the other hand, if you just intend to use your bench as a surface for glue-up or painting, MDF is a perfect solution.

If cost is an issue, Southern Yellow Pine or even DF-Larch construction lumber (2x4 or better yet 2x6) can be laminated to make a quality, stable inexpensive benchtop. With maintenance, such a benchtop will last your lifetime and serve you until you go into the landfill.

Maple makes a great benchtop as I know from experience, but can be a bit pricey. I don't know where you are located, but you might consider looking for a good quality hardwood that is available relatively cheaply in your vicinity. With the ash blight in the Midwest, friends tell me there is a glut available in some locations. Beech can also be found relatively inexpensively at sawmills in my experience (at least in the Columbus OH area) since it tends to discolor while drying and become difficult to sell, a feature that does not harm it for a laminated benchtop.

Do it once; do it right.

Stan

[Prashun Patel]

I disagree that mdf will necessarily crumble. I have an MDF benchtop that is plenty stable and flat. I believe it's a fine bench for power tools.

However, for hand tools, specifically planing, you require good mass and good holding ability. MDF isn't so good at retaining the shape of dog holes; they do loosen over time. Your plywood substrate will help with that, but I still prefer how my maple bench holds work vs my mdf bench.

You'll probably end up installing hardwood aprons around your sandwich top to serve as rear jaws for any vises. A solid wood top won't need that.

Net-net, as my proficiency with planing increases, I find myself wanting to replace my mdf top more and more each day.

[Rodney Walker]

+1 on what Stan said. MDF is good for some applications. A benchtop designed for hand tools isn't one of them. MDF bears a strong resemblance to thick cardboard.
Rodney

[george wilson]

MDF will turn into a mess when you try to scrape glue or paint,etc. off of it. I'd certainly use wood. Plywood would be better than MDF.

[Rodney Walker]

I decided to add a bit more. My first bench that I built around 20 years ago has a solid 4x12 with my vise and dog holes on it. The other side is melamine coated particle board with a skirt. Every time I have had to clamp a large piece solidly to the top with clamps on the skirt side it has been a royal pain. I quickly learned to hate the skirted side of the top. When I (hopefully this winter) start my new bench, I'll probably save the 4x12 (even as ratty and stained as I've let it get over the years)and the rest of the top will go in the landfill or burn pile.
Go with solid wood. Plywood would be second best but once you start wearing thru the laminations or they start lifting on their own, you'll probably regret using it and I really don't think the price difference between construction grade SYP or Fir and a couple sheets of 3/4 plywood is all that much.
Rodney

[Dennis Petrillo]

Thanks for all the great feedback....I was coming to the same conclusion as Stanley indicated..... Took a lot of time to build a good base of maple, M&T construction and was thinking it deserved a nice top.....just wanted to get some thoughts from members before going forward.....found a couple of good (I think) suppliers with what seem to be nice maple tops.....Baird Brothers in Ohio sells a nice square edge product..... It is finger jointed but all I looked at seem to be made up of smaller pieces vs. continuous lengths of maple.

Thanks again

[glenn bradley]

2. MDF will delaminate and crumble over time and with stress, eventually becoming garbage. But before it goes into the landfill, it will irritate you, embarrass you, and maybe even hold back your progress in becoming proficient with handtools. On the other hand, if you just intend to use your bench as a surface for glue-up or painting, MDF is a perfect solution.

I'm not a big fan of MDF but, just so there's an exception to make the rule . . . ;). Five years of near-daily use . . . still going.

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Sure if you just slap a piece of MDF on your base and go to work, you'll have problems; same goes for many unprotected materials. This was my "next" bench as I thought I would replace it "soon". I still may but, so far, no failures. I was worried about dogs in MDF but, no problems. This is four 3/4" thicknesses so it didn't really save any money. It did save time and gave me a flat surface to work on much longer than anticipated.

It was treated with BLO on all surfaces and I have refreshed the paste wax at least twice over the last 5 years. I don't want it slippery so I only re-waxed when I noticed glue drips had stopped popping right off. It really has surprised me how well it has held up and how solid it is when chopping with chisels, hand jointing or working/smoothing flat surfaces on it.

[Adam Cruea]

My outside workbench is make with an MDF top. It's stable enough, good for power tools and what my wife does with it. Just make sure it has good support.

However, keep in mind that MDF can be slick, at least in my experience.

[Todd Burch]

2. MDF will delaminate and crumble over time and with stress, eventually becoming garbage. But before it goes into the landfill, it will irritate you, embarrass you, and maybe even hold back your progress in becoming proficient with handtools. On the other hand, if you just intend to use your bench as a surface for glue-up or painting, MDF is a perfect solution.

A bit dramatic Stanley. Perhaps you use a different MDF than the rest of us.


MDF will turn into a mess when you try to scrape glue or paint,etc. off of it.

[Dennis Petrillo]

Nice bench Glenn......what did you use to fasten the apron to the MDF top?

[Mel Fulks]

If you are in a city that has a used restaurant equipment company sometimes you can buy used tops and reconfigure them.

[Sam Stephens]

butcher block (finger jointed?) style table tops are very stable. it's a good use of smaller pieces that would otherwise be scrap/waste, though in the home shop, i'd hate to glue up something like this. as someone else mentioned, why not make the top yourself? 2 by's from softwoods (syp or fir from the borg) are plenty strong for a top and should be cheap. My benchtop consists of ~20 boards of syp (by's), ripped to 3 1/4" wide and face glued to make a top that is ~27" wide and 3 1/4" thick. Prior to glue up, I could run the boards through my jointer and planer, however, the final top was much too big. My experience w/ bench planes (jack and jointer) were limited at this point, but by the time i was finished flattening the top (an hr or 2 later), I had a much better feel of what was needed to flatten a board! And since it was syp, planing was relatively easy. Just a thought.

[Gary Hodgin]

I don't know much about mdf other than using it for a few jigs. Properly supported my guess is that it would stay flat and not present some of the movement issues associated with solid wood. I would worry about it's ability to set holdfasts and its ability to withstand the pressure of holding bench dogs when hand planing.

[Jim Matthews]

Bob Van Dyke of the Connecticut Valley woodworking school has a simple, durable bench built for student use.

They're constructed with MDF. The benches take a beating and last ages.
http://www.finewoodworking.com/woodworking-plans/article/build-your-first-workbench.aspx

[Dennis Petrillo]

You're right Jim.....I've take a few classes there and the benches are 2 layers of particle board topped by a layer of MDF...they are very solid and used for everything from chopping dovetails to glue ups.....thanks for a reference to the article

[Greg Portland]

I built a torsion box with 3/4" ply faces and 2x4 internals and it has been rock solid. For the dog holes I lag bolted & glued on a sandwich of 2x6 | 1x6 | 2x6 where the 1x6 were cut into pieces to make the (square) dog holes prior to assembly. Just make sure everything is flat as your screw the top ply down.

[george wilson]

So,MDF WON'T scab loose when you scrape dried glue off of it? That's a new one on me.

[Prashun Patel]

That's correct - IF you put down wax and or oil to coat the surface first.

[Stanley Covington]

I stand by my negative opinion of MDF as a benchtop material. But allow me to clarify my caustic comments with a few questions and observations. Can MDF be contrived to work as a practical alternative to solid wood? Yes, with solid-wood edge supports, and special non-mdf solutions for dogholes, and with care to avoid overstressing/crushing with clamping pressure, and with finishes to prevent moisture from attacking the cyanoacrylate adhesive bond, and a strong stomach to endure the process of using a belt sander to true the surface and remove gouges, and with rose-tinted glasses to hide the boring ugliness of pressed sawdust, and a soul like a small kernal of hard burnt corn to ignore the shame. Perhaps these conditions are acceptable in a commercial situation where initial cost drives everything. But for a personal workbench for a man such as Dennis who wants the long-term satisfaction of good workmanship from his own hands? Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, do we have such a low opinion of this poor misunderstood man?

But I readily concede that MDF has many virtues as a cost-effective and expedient material for hidden or short-term applications. In many circumstances, MDF is certainly a practical alternative, and even superior to, solid wood, especially where you know it will never be maintained by someone that cares, where pride in the quality of one's tools is irrelevant, where it will be constantly dirty and abused, and where it only needs to last for a while before that long rest in the landfill. I am sure many of you have seen benches and tables with MDF tops used in commercial workshops, and on jobsites, and you have also seen them crumbling away at the edges as the particles of sawdust, which comprise MDF, seek freedom from their superglue bondage. But I think the application Dennis is considering is none of these. Sure, MDF can be made to work, but is it the best solution for his private workshop if he has the financial wherewithal and initiative to build/buy a solid wood top?

I rest my case and urge the jury to set aside liquor during their final deliberations.

Stan

[george wilson]

They use Formica as a cheap bench top covering in the millwork shop of the museum,and it seems to have stood up well to many years of building heavy outdoor furniture and the like. A bit slippery for my taste,but it seems durable.

[Prashun Patel]

A common technique on an mdf top is to put down a sacrificial 1/8 inch top on the bench that is held in place by the apron. Replacing the top is then easy. That being said, my mdf bench has a sacrificial top and in 3years ive never replaced it. It has gouges and is ugly, but it still works.

a bench does not have to be pretty to work well. I dont believe there is shame in owning a bench that is not fine furniture.

Also, there is no practical risk of clamping too hard on mdf. That just doesnt happen in regular use.

my only gripe w mdf is that if yr going thru the trouble to reinforce the dog holes and make an apron, might as well just go hardwood.

[George Gyulatyan]

Anyone familiar with Robert Ingham?
http://www.robertinghamdesigns.com/gallery/robertingham/robertingham.html

MDF bench... has had it for years. Doesn't use bench dogs or holdfasts, but has setup planing stops... different ways of working I guess.

The point is, if you're going to use traditional tools to hold your workpieces to your workbench, then MDF isn't the best material. If you don't care, then MDF has some advantages over solid wood top.

So, first answer the question on how you'll be working and then go from there.

[George Gyulatyan]

I stand by my negative opinion of MDF as a benchtop material. But allow me to clarify my caustic comments with a few questions and observations. Can MDF be contrived to work as a practical alternative to solid wood? Yes, with solid-wood edge supports, and special non-mdf solutions for dogholes, and with care to avoid overstressing/crushing with clamping pressure, and with finishes to prevent moisture from attacking the cyanoacrylate adhesive bond, and a strong stomach to endure the process of using a belt sander to true the surface and remove gouges, and with rose-tinted glasses to hide the boring ugliness of pressed sawdust, and a soul like a small kernal of hard burnt corn to ignore the shame. Perhaps these conditions are acceptable in a commercial situation where initial cost drives everything. But for a personal workbench for a man such as Dennis who wants the long-term satisfaction of good workmanship from his own hands? Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, do we have such a low opinion of this poor misunderstood man?

But I readily concede that MDF has many virtues as a cost-effective and expedient material for hidden or short-term applications. In many circumstances, MDF is certainly a practical alternative, and even superior to, solid wood, especially where you know it will never be maintained by someone that cares, where pride in the quality of one's tools is irrelevant, where it will be constantly dirty and abused, and where it only needs to last for a while before that long rest in the landfill. I am sure many of you have seen benches and tables with MDF tops used in commercial workshops, and on jobsites, and you have also seen them crumbling away at the edges as the particles of sawdust, which comprise MDF, seek freedom from their superglue bondage. But I think the application Dennis is considering is none of these. Sure, MDF can be made to work, but is it the best solution for his private workshop if he has the financial wherewithal and initiative to build/buy a solid wood top?

I rest my case and urge the jury to set aside liquor during their final deliberations.

Stan

Now THAT was dramatic! :eek: :D

[Todd Burch]

Now THAT was dramatic! :eek: :D

AMEN!

Stan, I applaud your conviction! Now, when we meeting for a cold beverage to discuss this more? ;)

[george wilson]

Henry Ford hated waste,and figured out a way to make his mountains of sawdust from making wooden spoked wheels into charcoal briquettes. He was a great camper,often going camping and picnicking with Edison.

Fortunately,no one,including Edison,had been desperate enough to invent MDF by that early date !!!!:):):)

[Mel Fulks]

That's right George. MDF briquettes did come in until chicken "nuggets", they are made with the same machines.

[Mario Soldevilla]

My bench top is made with 1 1/2 inch mdf sandwiched between 2 sheets of 1 inch baltic birch plywood, and 5 inch maple aprons all around. This makes for a very heavy and stable top which grips holdfasts just fine and has held up great for the last 3 years. probably not the last bench i will build, but i am confident it will last me for a good long time if not my lifetime.

[Kevin Grady]

If you want a solid wood top, but don't want to spend time building one up, look at glulam beams. I went with two 3.5"x12"x96" for a split top bench, but you can get thicker wider and longer to fit your needs. Total cost for mine was $140 at the time (two years ago)

[Stanley Covington]

AMEN!

Stan, I applaud your conviction! Now, when we meeting for a cold beverage to discuss this more? ;)

I just got back from San Francisco and don't have specific dates for my next business trip to the US. When are you coming to the Land of the $5 Apple?

Stan

[Stanley Covington]

If you want a solid wood top, but don't want to spend time building one up, look at glulam beams. I went with two 3.5"x12"x96" for a split top bench, but you can get thicker wider and longer to fit your needs. Total cost for mine was $140 at the time (two years ago)

That is a great idea! Some glulam makers, at least one in Minnesota I know of first hand, makes beautiful nearly defect-free high-end glulams out of SYP that would work better than DF-L.

Stan

[Todd Burch]

...When are you coming to the Land of the $5 Apple?

Stan

Never been to Toykyo. Might be going to Beijing next year though.

[george wilson]

I have never eaten a chicken nugget!!! I'm afraid of what crud I might find inside one,no kidding!!

[Stanley Covington]

That is a great idea! Some glulam makers, at least one in Minnesota I know of first hand, makes beautiful nearly defect-free high-end glulams out of SYP that would work better than DF-L.

Stan

Drop by.

Stan

[Carl Beckett]

I like the surface that shellac leaves on MDF. Seems to penetrate into it and harder it a bit. Then some wax over this.

Personally, I have built a number of surfaces out of MDF since I got a truckload for free once. Its all still in use and holding up much better than I would have imagined, and I expect to still be using it years from now. No, I havent set it out in the rain.

I also built a bench out of two layers laminated particle board plywood once. (where the center is particle, and a layer of veneer sandwiches it) I figured it would get replaced and I wanted something quickly. After a dozen years of completely abusing it (since after all, it was only 'temporary') it was still in great shape and I passed it along to a newcomer to the hobby.

[Tim Janssen]

I built this bench 12 years ago: 3 layers of 3/4" MDF with a 1/4" sacrificial masonite (hardboard) top layer. Replaced the hardboard top layer once.
The dog holes are 3/4" diameter. For benchdogs I use 3/4" dowels with a ring of vinyl tubing around the top 1/2" to prevent the dog from falling through.
It's a heavy brute but still serving very well after 12 years, not every day but regularly. I made it mobile with home made benchlift.
Cheers.

Tim

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p209/timwillift/Pic902.jpg

[Charlie Stanford]

Hi All

I built a Benchtop base out of maple and now am looking at bench tops.

I'm looking to buy a ready made maple top and found some good sources at reasonable prices and was also considering 2 sheets of 3/4" plywood topped with a 3/4" sheet of MDF.

I want to spend more time working with hand tools so my basic question is are there drawbacks to the MDF solution working with hand tools....this solution is something I can do myself rather quickly but don't want to be trading up in 6 months regretting I didn't buy a solid top to begin with.

Thanks in advance for any feedback

Dennis

I've found that sheet goods don't work well at all if you like, or need, to use holdfasts.

Make the benchtop out of wood. Make the top at least 2 1/2 inches thick; pine is fine, beech or maple better. Coat the inside of holdfast holes and dog holes with a thin layer of epoxy which will help consolidate and fill porous endgrain where it occurs, this is especially important if you go with a lower cost pine or fir top.

My lousy two cents.