finishing cherry table top

[Paul Gilbert]

I am building a dinning room table from some flitch swan cherry lumber. I dimensioned the lumber with my Jet 22/44 drum sander and glued up the top. I ran the top through the drum sander again to take out the glue lines and the worked up through the grains, (random orbital snader) 100, 150, 220 and finally with a a finish sander, 320 and 400. It was my intention to give it a coat of shellac and then tone it with Trans Tint dye to darken it a bit.

When I shot on a coat of 1# cut dewaxed blond shellac I had horrible blotching at 60 degree angle to the grain sort of like tiger stripes. The blotching in only apparent when viewed at a few angles. I sanded off the shellac and went after it with 60 grit and then up from there. Still the tiger stripes!!!

I am new to cherry. I know it is famous for blotching, but I thought this was mostly around grain swirl places. My thing looks like tiger stripes.

Tonight I wetted the raw top in hope of raising the grain and then being able to knock the top off and obliterating the tiger stripes.

Any help will be appreciated.

[Paul Murphy]

Pictures? Cherry sometimes has curly figure that can vary anywhere from perpindicular to the grain to an oblique angle. Do you think you could have lucked into flitches of figured cherry? I have some of this type of figured cherry, and under some finishes it really is seen only at certain angles.

[Paul Symchych]

My drill with cherry is to wipe it with a coat or two of boiled linseed and then for a table, varnish. In my book dye and stain are sacrilege if the wood is any good. I know lots of folks like that instant Ethan Allan look. I don't.
The BLO will bring out the grain and accelerate the normal color change of the cherry. Just give it a couple of days to dry well. Preferably in the sun.

[Keith Hankins]

One mans blotch is another's blush. I love cherry mostly all I work with. If you don't want to any of that then blotch control is in order. You don't indicate your plans for full coats i.e. color top coat etc. For blotch control I'd recommend Charles Neils' blotch control. It works great I prefer General Finishes dyes and their top coats.

[Stephen Cherry]

Why dye cherry? To make it look like cherry? It will darken quite a bit with time, so it's aiming at a moving target. I kind of like the stripes, etc. Something to look at while having a bowl of cereal.

[Prashun Patel]

Show some pix. What yr describing sounds more like 'figure' or 'curl'. It's desirable blotch. In fact, the curl must be so deep that even your sanding to 400g and then shellac didn't prevent it. usually, these are 2 good ways to minimize blotching. If it were me, I'd sand it up to 220, wipe it down with a coat of BLO, then let it bask/dry in the sun for a couple days. This should kickstart the color. Then topcoat it. Then let mother nature take care of the rest.

Putting it in the sun means it might get a little heat. I would therefore wait to put any film finish on the wood until it's done with it's initial tan. Remember that cherry will darken nicely over time.

Beware of sanding/resanding something too many times. I've done that before and got heavy handed with the ROS in the 'problem' areas, which led to divots. If you've been aggressively sanding, I highly suggest that before oiling, you wash it with MS and make sure it looks flat.

[Keith Hankins]

Why dye cherry? To make it look like cherry? It will darken quite a bit with time, so it's aiming at a moving target. I kind of like the stripes, etc. Something to look at while having a bowl of cereal.

There are many ways to do cherry. I like the natural look and for that Waterlox is very nice to impart a nice hue to the wood. However if you want to have a piece that looks 150 years old and you want it now, color is a good way to achieve that look. Finally say you have some cherry that is less than consistent in color or you have cherry from different regions that don't go together perfect then you can use color to even out the wood tones to achieve a very uniform look. Some people like that uniform old cherry look. Try something different every now ant then you would be surprised at what goes well together. I know I swore I'd never like anything but a nice oil finish till I tried the general finishes water bourne stuff. It's a pleasure to work with dries fast between coats and is very durable and low VOC's. I can spray and it does not permeate the whole house and only a couple hours between coats. I did a cal king pencil post bed and it was really nice. Have a good one.

[Paul Gilbert]

Thanks guys. Tomorrow morning I'll shoot some pics. SHMBO is really on my case. I once built a quarter sawn cherry dinning room table which floated in salt water in New Orleans during Katrina. I promised to rebuild it, but that proved to be impracticable. Now. after procrastinating for 5 years I have to get this thing ready for Christmas dinner. The sun in Dallas TX is great today, but things look bad for this weekend.

I want the protection of urethane, but the satin luster of oil. I had planed to use several coats of spar varnish urethane and rub it out to knock off the gloss. I just may do a BLO first coat. I'll test this on a scrap sample tomorrow.

To be continued.

[Stephen Cherry]

and only a couple hours between coats.

That's nice. I like waterlox also, except taking a long time to cure, and the smell. I've also worked with dye in shellac with cherry, and it's fun and easy, but not for me. Ultimately, for me it's still waterlox because it's easy to do, and repairable.

[Paul Gilbert]

Keith -
this lumber is form the same flitch. I paid big bucks for a same log from New York and had it shipped to Dallas, TX. No problems with matching color, just the tiger stripes

[Keith Hankins]

Post some pic's almost sounds like curly cherry. If thats the case, in most cases thats desirable and justifys big bucks. But if you want to make it as much uniform as possible then blotch control with waterlox will work fine. Different brands out there. I've used a few. like Charles's and hate minwax stuff. (early years and I did not know any better). Waterlox is really nice and I use it a lot, but the time between coats and VOC's is really bad. Good luck.

[Paul Gilbert]

attached is a photo that shows the blotching.247211

[Paul Symchych]

Is that blotching or the figure?
BLO may pop that grain out beautifully.

[Robert LaPlaca]

attached is a photo that shows the blotching.247211

Jeez that looks like curly cherry to me..

[Erik Christensen]

my thought exactly - a very nice example of curly grain - celebrate your lucky find and tell management "I meant to do that" - BLO will make that pop even more than the shellac

[George Gyulatyan]

Yup. I wouldn't try to control it. Accentuate. Looks beautiful.

[Prashun Patel]

Paul, while you may not find that variation appealing if you were trying to apply a stain to the piece, if you are just topcoating, then I suggest like the others that you go with it. That curl, under an oil based varnish, or shellac, or even with a wipe of boiled linseed oil, and then topcoated, will really come to life. Those ribbons give wood a 3-dimensional quality when finished right with an oilbased finish.

EMBRACE THE CURL!

[Frank Drew]

I agree that that seems to be some very nice figured cherry as is, not what we normally think of as blotchy cherry. And I'm with Paul S. and Stephen and wouldn't try to dye or stain it. In my experience, cherry that's stained doesn't improve with time and develop the same lovely patina that naturally finished cherry does.

As for the unattractive version of blotchiness with cherry, I'm not a particular fan of boiled linseed oil, but after finish sanding I've used a wash coat of either dilute lacquer or shellac to pre-treat the wood, then resand lightly with a fine grit and finish as desired. Got great results with that method.

[Jim Neeley]

Boy, that thing looks like it oughta have a heckuva chatoyance.. +1 on Prashun's suggestion!! :-)

[Stew Hagerty]

my thought exactly - a very nice example of curly grain - celebrate your lucky find and tell management "I meant to do that" - BLO will make that pop even more than the shellac

+1 on the "I meant to do that". Tell everyone how you searched through hundreds of boards (thousands of boards might be stretching it a bit) in order to find just the right ones that would look this way.

Curly Cherry is a beautiful thing. I agree wholeheartedly with the others that have said boiled linseed oil then a finish. The BLO with bring out all of the little highlights, curls, and waves that you are seeing only some of now. Then the topcoat will bring out the rest. I have often tinted cherry to get that darker aged cherry look right from the get go. What I usually do is this:

- Apply 2 thin coats of BLO a day apart and at least a couple days before the next step.

- Apply a 1/2lb coat of garnet shellac

- Buff with a grey pad or lightly with 320 paper

- Apply a very light coat of my own mix (It's just a blend several stock colors that I played with until I achieved the color I like) of GF water based dye.

- Apply (spraying works best here) a 2lb coat of shellac (I usually use garnet still for this coat).

- Rub with a red pad or 1000 grit paper

- Apply subsequent coats of blond shellac rubbing out with 0000 steel wool and parafin oil between coats until desired look is reached.

- Apply and buff out a really good paste wax. I use Black Bison clear.

[Keith Hankins]

Curious how shellac will stand up on a table top as a top coat? I love it but I've never found it to stand up in hard use situations. I love how easy it is to fix. Second, you using pure BLO? How do you get that to dry in two days or is it a varnish mix? Just curious how other folks handle it.

[Jim Neeley]

The shellac will hold up fine, as long as it used for decorative purposes only... Otherwise, as long as alcoholic beverages are not spilled on it or water left on it too long, it will hold up until it wears through (and shellac isn't tough).

Shellac is awesome stuff, for it's applications. It's beautiful, close to the wood for a film coat and easy to apply and repair (best sprayed) but (IMO) isn't a kitchen table final finish if the table is going to see regular daily use.

Opinions will vary as to what is best but personally I like a precat lacquer, sprayed. If I had to apply it by hand, my choice would be a dilute polyurethane (50% MS or more), aka "Wiping varnish" and I would apply it with a lint-free rag. The down side is that it'd take a lot of coats. with them being applied just to the point where it is clearly filmed over and before it starts looking plastic-y. This is for a "fine" dining table.

If I wanted it to live through a flock of children, wanted the "fine look" and was willing to perform the ongoing work, I'd spray lacquer and plan on re-spraying it whenever the surface first started to show damage. I'd choose lacquer because it's tougher than shellac and each coat melts into older coats (unlike poly) so it doesn't require stripping before repair, as long as you haven't let the underlying wood become damaged.

For bulletproof but a plastic look, I'd use oil-based poly, or even tougher, a pour-on epoxy, although ti would look like the top was plastic.

I have known a couple of people who wanted the fine look but not the maintenance so used lacquer, plaing a waterproof cover and tablecloth on the table before each use, but that's a lot of work too.

Just my $0.02.. YMMV.

Jim in Alaska

[Mel Fulks]

ORANGE shellac freshly mixed from flakes will not be hurt by Walter or or alcoholic drinks.See recent shellac thread.

[Jon Grider]

My drill with cherry is to wipe it with a coat or two of boiled linseed and then for a table, varnish. In my book dye and stain are sacrilege if the wood is any good. I know lots of folks like that instant Ethan Allan look. I don't.
The BLO will bring out the grain and accelerate the normal color change of the cherry. Just give it a couple of days to dry well. Preferably in the sun.

What Paul said.

[Steve Jenkins]

If you feel up to a trip to McKinney area wth the top I'd shoot it with conversion varnish for you.