Collectable plane. What would you do?

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I bought a pretty collectable plane a couple weeks ago. Paid on the low end of the scale because cosmetically it's not pristine, but it is in very good condition mechanically. The Stanley logo on the blade dates to 1886-1890. Most of the japanning is gone, the tote while tight, has been broken and reguled. The knob is in good condition. It has one small area of slight pitting on the rear left and some light rust under the lever cap. I took it apart and wiped everything down because it was covered with a coat of oil and gunk. Then I flattened and sharpened the blade and honed the lever cap where it makes contact with the blade. It makes nice shavings. The wood parts are covered with a thick coating of what I think is dirt and the metal has a very dark "patina". I don't know what to do next. I want to preserve the plane in its current condition, but it definitely needs some cleaning a protective coating of some sort. I've thought of everything from a light cleaning to total restoration. What do you think?

[Roy Wall]

Dennis,

Look under the latest thread by Terry Hatfield and his type 3 bedrock resto....

There is a buffing wheel listed that he used to shine up all parts of the plane...

I recently used some "evapo-rust" on an old Clark & CO. Dt saw that I'm attemping to resharpen and get in working order. It did a good job of removing the rust and left a "patina" look to the blade -- it did not "shine" it up...

What kinda plane.........??

[Derek Cohen]

Most of the japanning is gone, the tote ... has been broken and reguled .... It has one small area of slight pitting on the rear left and some light rust under the lever cap. .... I flattened and sharpened the blade and honed the lever cap ... I want to preserve the plane in its current condition ... What do you think?

Dennis, I think you are deluded (big grin). :)

Seriously, this is no "collector" plane from the perspective of being monetarily valuable. It has too many repairs and it is far from original condition. The only collector plane of value is in pristine original condition, or at least close to this. Yes, there are many buyers on eBay for "good" and "very good" condition original planes, but even here the emphasis is on "original".

I would like to know what Stanley plane it is. Just out of curiosity. I restored a Stanley #62 about 2 years ago, and I use it frequently. It had 90% of its japanning, so it still retains its old-world look. At present I am "restoring" a Type 11 #7. It has only 40 - 50 percent of its jappaning so I will replace it all - because this is going to be a user and I want to enjoy using it - but the sides will remain untouched as I want to retain the patina, which is part of the character of an old plane. It is unnecessary to leave a plane decrepid and tatty just because you think it may be more valuable that way. A good restoration means returning the plane to as-original condition. The fact remains, however, this plane - like yours - is no longer original.

My advice is restore the plane to the level you think reflects your appreciation of the plane, its history and aura. Who knows, if you do it well and wish to sell it later, someone else will appreciate your craftsmanship and pay you accordingly.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Dennis, I think you are deluded (big grin). :)

Seriously, this is no "collector" plane from the perspective of being monetarily valuable. It has too many repairs and it is far from original condition. The only collector plane of value is in pristine original condition, or at least close to this. Yes, there are many buyers on eBay for "good" and "very good" condition original planes, but even here the emphasis is on "original".

I would like to know what Stanley plane it is. Just out of curiosity. I restored a Stanley #62 about 2 years ago, and I use it frequently. It had 90% of its japanning, so it still retains its old-world look. At present I am "restoring" a Type 11 #7. It has only 40 - 50 percent of its jappaning so I will replace it all - because this is going to be a user and I want to enjoy using it - but the sides will remain untouched as I want to retain the patina, which is part of the character of an old plane. It is unnecessary to leave a plane decrepid and tatty just because you think it may be more valuable that way. A good restoration means returning the plane to as-original condition. The fact remains, however, this plane - like yours - is no longer original.

My advice is restore the plane to the level you think reflects your appreciation of the plane, its history and aura. Who knows, if you do it well and wish to sell it later, someone else will appreciate your craftsmanship and pay you accordingly.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek, There is a difference between original condition and mint condition. A rare plane in original, mint condition is obviously valuable. A plane in restored mint conditon (rejapanned, new handles etc) would normally be worth less than one in original condition.

This plane is a very collectable 100 year old Stanley nr. 1 in mechanically sound condition. Except for the reglued tote, it's in excellent shape for a tool of its age. It would clean up very nicely, I'm just not sure how much I should clean it and I am more concerned with preserving it in its current condtion than restoring it to "like new".

[Derek Cohen]

Dennis

A #1, wow! I am impressed - not so much with the plane, per se, but with their rarity and the awareness that they are considered so desirable. Not really useable (unless you have really tiny hands :) ), so I guess it is one for the mantle.

Do you want it to look old? Do you want it to look new? I still don't believe it makes much difference if it is in poor condition currently. If you leave it as is, you will only sell it for the current market value for its condition. If you "restore" or alter it in any way (including "flattening the blade"), as you say, the value may drop. But there is a point at which the condition is poor enough that some restoration work will actually enhance the value (and, no, I'm not actually advocating re-japanning. However, replacing the tote is one recommendation I do make). Your #1 sounds like it might be at this point.

Why not post some pics for us to see?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Derek, you bring up an interesting point. I really don't know where the restore it/leave it alone line lies, at least for me anyway. Up to this point, I haven't really come down on one side or the other of the argument. I like the way Terry Hatfield's refinished planes look, but I haven't restored any any of the planes in my tool box. I regularly use a Stanley 72 which has very little japanning left and it doesn't bother me any.

I am really photographically challenged at this point which is really strange since I used to be a commercial photogrpher. I haven't bought a digital camera because price to resolution ratio is still too high for me. Several years ago I sold all my 35 MM equipment and bought a nice point and shoot camera which has since died. All I have is a medium format camera and I hate to break it out for a few pictures, especially since I have to reduce the resolution to post here. Maybe I can get some time this weekend and give it a try.

[Dave Anderson NH]

There are a lot of different viewpoints on how antique tools should be treated and it is an area where there is a good bit of acrimony and even more misunderstanding. The first area where a decision has to be made is in whether or not the tool is common, uncommon, rare, or exceedingly rare. Common tools like the Stanley #3 thru #8 in the bench plane series where made for over 140 years and literally millions of examples were made. Only in some of the early types 1-3 or 4 are at all uncommon. Some of the specialty planes, the Millers Patent plows, the #9 miter plane, and a few others are considered relatively rare. The #1 is kind of borderline between uncommon and rare.

Collectors are concerned about condition both from the viewpoint of the tools heritage and from the idea that no overcleaning or alterations should be made. To them, an unrepaired plane with mild rust and cracked wood should only be stabilized, cleaned, and at the most have the surface rust steel wool and mineral spirits cleaned. The wonderful job that Terry Hatfield does on his restorations and cleanups, if done to a rare plane, would drive a collecter nuts and elicit nasty and highly perjorative comments about the planes themselves and about Terry as a person. Truly we don't all look at things the same. Those who are only users, obviously don't have a problem with this type of approach. My personal take on this is that with the common stuff you should do what pleases you but that you have a responsibility to make sure of the fact that a tool of any kind is common before proceeding to make any major changes to the tools condition. The difficulty arises in who defines whether something is common or rare, and in doing the research or finding the knowledge necessary to make this kind of decision.

Terry, please forgive me for using you as an example, but your postings of your work show a great example of how to turn a sows ear into a silk purse. On the other hand, should you ever try your magic on .........;) :D

[Louis Bois]

Dennis,

Terry's refurbed Type 3's are brilliantly executed and probably look better than they did when they were first purchased...all those years ago.

Having said that, I would not...repeat, NOT!!! do that to a #1 in any condition. My best advice to you would be to simply clean any grime that could contribute to rust/corrosion and leave it at that! You could also keep you eyes out for a #1 tote to replace the busted one...but this is not a necessity.

If you plan on keeping this plane forever, I still would advise against a super-cleaning. Think of it this way, some day one of your family members will be selling this plane. Every rotation of the buffer will reduce their inheritance by 20 bucks a pop! Your call.

[Scott Coffelt]

I think if it were me on this one, I might clean it with a little air and mineral spirits. If the tote is still usable, then I would leave alone for now. If you want it to be a user, then sharpen the blade and protect it against future rust attacks with wax or oil and use away. As far as, the other stuff goes... I am no expert... just a newby to the planing thing. Seems to me that the #1's go for some serious $$$'s on Ebay. I'd sell it, cause that's me. Either way it seems like you have a nice one there.

[Jim DeLaney]

I think if it were me on this one, I might clean it with a little air and mineral spirits. If the tote is still usable, then I would leave alone for now. If you want it to be a user, then sharpen the blade and protect it against future rust attacks with wax or oil and use away. As far as, the other stuff goes... I am no expert... just a newby to the planing thing. Seems to me that the #1's go for some serious $$$'s on Ebay. I'd sell it, cause that's me. Either way it seems like you have a nice one there.

I wouldn't even sharpen the existing blade. If you/he want to use the plane, I'd buy a replacement blade and chipbreaker from LN or Hock and use that - keeping the original iron and chipbreaker intact.

Mineral spirits, a soft toothbrush, and some air would be all I'd use for the rest of the clean-up.

[Richard Niemiec]

I wandered into my #1 at a garage sale in Indian Trail NC, and it was sitting covered with gunk at the bottom of a child's plastic tool box amid other toys. I was intrigued, paid the lady her dollar, spit on a rag in my truck and rubbed the iron and saw Stanley Tool and Level and then changed my underwear. It's a bit on the rough side, got a cracked tote and chipped (1/8 x 1/2") mouth but is otherwise complete and correct in every way, and has been dated by a credible dealer to be circa 1890-1895 and worth (to him) about $450 or so as is - likely for parts due to the mouth being chipped. For what it's worth, I gave it a mineral spirits toothbrush scrubbing, some 0000 steel wool ever so lightly to stabilize a bit of surface rust, and it now sits on the mantle, quietly appreciating (hopefully). I would not use the plane simply because of its age and rarity, although I am sure it still works just fine; if you have a real use for a #1, I'd suggest you buy the LN #1 for a user and just enjoy the original.

Rich

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Thanks for the input guys. I don't intend to use it and probably won't do a lot to clean it up, just enough to stabilize it in its current condition. If I can find a stanley replacement tote at a reasonable price I'll fix that too. I'm not a collector by any means, but I'll probably keep it a long time. So far none of my five children haven't shown any interest in doing anything with their hands or antique tools so I'll try to find it a good home sometime down the road.

Jim, its too late. I already sharpened the blade and tried it our. I just couldn't resist! :) Its actually not that hard to use one handed and does a good job.



Thanks,