Thoughts on setting up BS for resawing

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Hi All, Something just dawned on me today. So I guess this is a good day. :)

I have a MM16 with a warped table. They sent me another and it was warped too. Then they offered to have mine ground flat and that's where I'm at now. Note: I am not complaining about the company; they are great! But at this point I can't find anybody close to do the grinding.

So I'm wondering: Do you need a flat table for resawing? It seems to me the most important thing is that the fence be perfectly parallel to the blade. I mean this in a verticle sense.

If that is true then you should get perfectly cut veneers. My reasoning is when you cut veneers or do general resawing you are always pressing pretty hard against the fence. So that's your reference and not so much the table top. So if your fence is parallel to the blade vertically all should be fine. What do you think?

[Kurt Forbes]

seems to me you would get a spot that would pinch and cause alot of binding if you ran a straight board running against a straignt fence over a slightly twisted table.
The more the twist the more the bind

Or at least my my reasoning.

Get one ground out flat or get them to send you another till they get it right.

are you certain you have the rest of the saw perfectly level it would seem of there was a slight twist in the frame you would get a " bent" table which would appear on multiple tables once they were bolted tight to the frame.

[Mark Singer]

Alan,

Your correct it is not that critical. Just square the table to the blade...90 degrees. Most saws have a bolt you can adjust to have 90 as a default....that way you can return to it. You should be using a good resaw blade.

[Nick Mitchell]

So, you're willing to forget about 2 warped tables just because you can't find someone close to get it fixed like it should have been in the first place? Not trying to be rude, but remind me not to buy a used bandsaw from you ;)

[Tim Morton]

So, you're willing to forget about 2 warped tables just because you can't find someone close to get it fixed like it should have been in the first place? Not trying to be rude, but remind me not to buy a used bandsaw from you ;)


I don't think Alan is saying that he is willing to forget anything. He is asking a question to learn something about setting up a bandsaw for re-sawing. We all learn from the discussions in here, and since i am receiving my first bandsaw in the mail this week, I personally am interested in knowing what to look for when I unpack it. Yes the table should be flat, but lets say that it were not perfectly flat, it is then up to me to plot a course of action. if someone with mark singers experience tells me that the flatness of the table is not life or death...I will take his word without question. :cool:

[lou sansone]

Hi alan

sorry to hear about your troubles. I am just curious as to the way the tables are warped. Do they have a twist in them or a cup in one direction or another of both? I think that depending on how they are warped it will change the answer to your question.
lou

[Nick Mitchell]

If I had spent over $2000 on a bandsaw such as the MM16 I would expect the table to be flat. Dead flat. The table is made out of cast iron for a few reasons. One of them is flatness. If a flat table wasn't important then why not use some other material? A good cut on a bandsaw relies on a few things. One of these things is the relationship of the workpiece to the table. Is it the most important thing? No. Is it a factor in a quality cut? Yes. Wheels, table, blade, tension and overall rigidity and structure of the saw are all important aspects to getting the high quality that one pays for when one spends this kind of money on a machine. Why sacrifice one of the variables?

My point to Alan was to not give up on getting the saw that he thought he was buying.

[Barry Londrigan]

I have a 20 incher (MM) sitting out in the garage that I have YET to fire up. I agree that it should be dead flat for that kind of money. I am very interested as Lou has asked as to "how" this table is not flat. I am also interested in how you determined how flat (or not) it is...so that I may be educated as to how to proceed to check mine for flatness. I am new to WW and am trying my best to purchase nothing but great quality tools based on your expert advice at this fine site. I cannot afford to "buy them again" and would be very disappointed to have to. Alan, as I am sure you know already, I believe in MM customer service and I am sure they will make it right for you. I certainly would request a third table! :D

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Hi alan

sorry to hear about your troubles. I am just curious as to the way the tables are warped. Do they have a twist in them or a cup in one direction or another of both? I think that depending on how they are warped it will change the answer to your question.
lou

Hi Lou, It's cupped slightly where the cut in the table is. The whole table is slightly "U" shaped from left to right with the cut in the table as the center. So I just leveled the left side of the table to the blade since this is where the guide is when I resaw. Make any sense?

I can't get both sides of the table square to the blade simultaneously.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

I have a 20 incher (MM) sitting out in the garage that I have YET to fire up. I agree that it should be dead flat for that kind of money. I am very interested as Lou has asked as to "how" this table is not flat. I am also interested in how you determined how flat (or not) it is...so that I may be educated as to how to proceed to check mine for flatness. I am new to WW and am trying my best to purchase nothing but great quality tools based on your expert advice at this fine site. I cannot afford to "buy them again" and would be very disappointed to have to. Alan, as I am sure you know already, I believe in MM customer service and I am sure they will make it right for you. I certainly would request a third table! :D

Hi Barry,

I basically can't get both sides of the table( with the cut being the center) square to the blade at the same time. Many others have had this problem and I've had it on two tables. If I could find somebody in my area to grind mine (I've called 15 places already) Mini Max has offered to pay for it. They did not want to send another table. I will do this when and if I can find somebody to grind it.

If I lay a straight edge over the table from left to right there is a noticable dip in the middle. I've worked hours trying all the tricks I've read on the Mini Max boards but I can't get it straightened. This is done mainly by adjusting the trunnion bolts that hold on the table. So that's why I'm just trying to make do FOR NOW.

[Martin Shupe]

If it is within the forum rules, and I don't know if it is, could someone post a link to what is commonly referred to as "the minimax boards"? I suspect that board might be useful to me with regards to my MM16. (I have not checked mine to see if it is flat.)

[Chris Rosenberger]

Alan I just checked the table on my MM20. My table is warped also. The gap is about equal to the thickness of 20lb printer folded in half. I had never checked mine before & would not have had it not been for this thread. Although I have not had my saw very long. I have not noticed any problem making cuts on it. As some of the others have said. For the amount we paid for these saws, the tables should be flat.

[Chris Rosenberger]

The only Mini Max users group I know of is at Yahoo.
You have to apply to join the group & the moderators have to approve all posts.
Here is the link.

Moderator -- Removed link. Links to other public forums are not allowed.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Alan I just checked the table on my MM20. My table is warped also. The gap is about equal to the thickness of 20lb printer folded in half. I had never checked mine before & would not have had it not been for this thread. Although I have not had my saw very long. I have not noticed any problem making cuts on it. As some of the others have said. For the amount we paid for these saws, the tables should be flat.

Chris, Are you able to get the blade square to both sides of the table? I don't know if the amount your warp is will cause any problems in use. Mini Max has a great reputation for helping its customers.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Thanks for the dressing-down Tim. I in no way was standing in judgement of Alan and I would appreciate that you show me the same courtesy. Thankyou, now let's move on.

If I had spent over $2000 on a bandsaw such as the MM16 I would expect the table to be flat. Dead flat. The table is made out of cast iron for a few reasons. One of them is flatness. If a flat table wasn't important then why not use some other material? A good cut on a bandsaw relies on a few things. One of these things is the relationship of the workpiece to the table. Is it the most important thing? No. Is it a factor in a quality cut? Yes. Wheels, table, blade, tension and overall rigidity and structure of the saw are all important aspects to getting the high quality that one pays for when one spends this kind of money on a machine. Why sacrifice one of the variables?

My point to Alan was to not give up on getting the saw that he thought he was buying.
I'm sorry that my post offended you but you may notice the "winky" following my original post.

Don't worry Nick; I'm not giving up on this. I have a bad back and don't like handling these tables if I don't have to. Have you picked one up; those babies are heavy. But don't worry if I sell mine, I won't sell it to you. :)

Alan in Md.

[Chris Rosenberger]

Alan,
When I set the saw up I only checked the left side and the back of the blade for being square to the table.
I just checked the right side with a 14" tall square & there is a very small gap at the bottom with the square flat on the table. I do not believe it is enough for me to be concerned about. I do not look at a bandsaw as a machine for making precision cuts as I would with the tablesaw.

[Sam Blasco]

The most important part of set-up for veneers, or resawing in general, is that the blade is parallel to the fence. And the most important part of the operation is to keep the wood tight against the fence with pressure "Before" the blade. Then it doesn't matter whether your wood has a perfectly square edge or your table is perfectly square to the blade, though of course, it doesn't hurt. On under-powered and/or under-tensioned bandsaws, the table being square to the blade would be more crucial because you would need a point fence, resawing by eye, to account for drift and wandering issues. So, until you get the table flat, you can still "meat slice" consistant veneers, no sweat, or resaw lumber to dimension to get it ready for the planer.

[Byron Trantham]

Allan,
I am curious. I presume you have spoken to MM about the problem. What did they have to say about it? Given they sent you a new table and it's not flat I would be curious as to why. Did you measure the flatness before you re-installed the table? If it's not flat before installing it you may simply add appropriate spacer washers at the mount points (in the middle in this case) and when the mounting bolts are tightened it may put the outer edges down resulting in a flat[er] table. Just a thought.

I am still curious about the cause.

Another thought. I know the table is heavy but if you could remove it and put a straight edge across the mounting points on the trunnions to see if they are flat. Bottom line is there are two surfaces that need to be flat, the mounting points and the table. Let us know

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Alan,
When I set the saw up I only checked the left side and the back of the blade for being square to the table.
I just checked the right side with a 14" tall square & there is a very small gap at the bottom with the square flat on the table. I do not believe it is enough for me to be concerned about. I do not look at a bandsaw as a machine for making precision cuts as I would with the tablesaw.

Chris, It sounds like you are in good shape there. When I do the same procedure there is a large (1/8") gap on the right side of the blade. Have fun with your machine; they're awesome.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

The most important part of set-up for veneers, or resawing in general, is that the blade is parallel to the fence. And the most important part of the operation is to keep the wood tight against the fence with pressure "Before" the blade. Then it doesn't matter whether your wood has a perfectly square edge or your table is perfectly square to the blade, though of course, it doesn't hurt. On under-powered and/or under-tensioned bandsaws, the table being square to the blade would be more crucial because you would need a point fence, resawing by eye, to account for drift and wandering issues. So, until you get the table flat, you can still "meat slice" consistant veneers, no sweat, or resaw lumber to dimension to get it ready for the planer.

Sam, I'm glad you said this and it makes sense to me. I just wanted to hear somebody else say what I thought made sense to me. So we agree on this and I'm in good shape to resaw. Thanks!

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Allan,
I am curious. I presume you have spoken to MM about the problem. What did they have to say about it? Given they sent you a new table and it's not flat I would be curious as to why. Did you measure the flatness before you re-installed the table? If it's not flat before installing it you may simply add appropriate spacer washers at the mount points (in the middle in this case) and when the mounting bolts are tightened it may put the outer edges down resulting in a flat[er] table. Just a thought.

I am still curious about the cause.

Another thought. I know the table is heavy but if you could remove it and put a straight edge across the mounting points on the trunnions to see if they are flat. Bottom line is there are two surfaces that need to be flat, the mounting points and the table. Let us know

Hi Byron,

MiniMax has told me to get this second table ground and they will pay for it. I called many places around me(D.C.metro area) and I couldn't find one who would or could do it. Either their grinder was too small or the price was very high. MiniMax told me I should be able to get it done for around $100.

I've adjusted the trunnion bolts for hours and was able to get the cut in the table even. But when that was even the table was not flat again. When I got closer to a flatter table the cut in the table was very uneven.

When I first got the saw I was mostly doing bowl blanks on it so this problem didn't effect the work. But as I got more and more into resawing veneers I could see how it might throw things off. But in reality resawing is not a problem as long as I keep good pressure against the fence. It's when I'm cutting something large and covering most of the table that there's a problem. The amount the table is off is too much to adjust by the trunnion bolts. So I'm going to keep calling around here for a table grind. I'm in between Baltimore and D.C. if anybody knows of a place.

[lou sansone]

Hi alan

thanks for answering my question. It looks like it was helpful for others as well in diagnosing your problem. I thought that the warp would be as you described. I have never worked in a foundry, but recently spoke with the owner of MOAK machinery repair and foundry who indicated that getting flat castings is not automatic. There is an art to it.

I know that you have indicated that removing the table is a chore, but as one post inquired, have you made sure that the mating surfaces are also flat. Is that table flat before you put it on the saw? Could it be the trunion casting that is the cluprit ? Just food for thought. Best wishes
lou

[Dan Forman]

For those looking for the Mini-Max owners group, just Google: Mini Max owners. That will get you a link to the group.

Dan

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Hi alan

thanks for answering my question. It looks like it was helpful for others as well in diagnosing your problem. I thought that the warp would be as you described. I have never worked in a foundry, but recently spoke with the owner of MOAK machinery repair and foundry who indicated that getting flat castings is not automatic. There is an art to it.

I know that you have indicated that removing the table is a chore, but as one post inquired, have you made sure that the mating surfaces are also flat. Is that table flat before you put it on the saw? Could it be the trunion casting that is the cluprit ? Just food for thought. Best wishes
lou

Hi Lou, I really don't have answers to your questions. I haven't removed the table in a long time but I do know there is some adjustment available between the trunnion and table. I think at this point I've tweaked it as best as I can. Thanks for your interest. Alan in Md.