Restocking fee for machinery?

[J.R. Rutter]

I just wanted to see how common this scenario is.

I bought a $1900 piece of machinery locally, opened it up (it was in 3 boxes), and realized that there was a critical dimension missing from the specs that meant that I could not use it. The catalog photos and description lead me to believe that what I was getting something substantially different that what was actually in the box. All packaging pristine and intact except for the carton tape, all cosmoline still on, etc. I had it out of the box for 10 minutes, then repacked it exactly the way I found it.

I called the company just to make sure what the process was for a return where I just drove it back to the showroom. They had to check with a supervisor, so had to call me back. I had to leave the shop before I heard back from them, but just packed it into the car assuming it would be no problem. This morning, I just swung by and it was no problem - got a full return credit.

But my voicemail message from yesterday's return call said that they would charge me a 10% restocking fee. Really, $190? I'm glad that I had the option to just show up and drop it off without knowing what the official corporate response was!

[Mike Henderson]

That's a tough one. For best customer relations, the company would not charge a fee. But once the package was opened, they could have trouble reselling it because a future buyer might be suspicious of why it was opened and returned. How would you feel if you received a piece of machinery that had be opened and repacked?

So overall, the 10% restocking fee is probably not unreasonable unless they really misrepresented the product.

Mike

[J.R. Rutter]

I can see that. But if it obviously was never put into service, and had nothing other than re-taped outer boxes, not a big deal to me. Having a showroom model and/or better pictures and description would also go a long way.

{edit} In cases where it has to get shipped twice, I can understand the concern that the potential for damage to the packaging and contents would justify a restock fee.

[Matt Meiser]

This is one of the reasons I no longer shop at Best Buy.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Incomplete specs. Could not be confirmed from available published information. Not reasonable to expect the customer to open the crates/cartons on-site to measure and pre-assemble pre-purchase.

10% restocking fee? OP should have reasonably been told that pre-purchase. And, even if he was, can't see how this would have been anticipated.

My position is very simple: Worst case, you just paid a buck-ninety to learn where NOT to buy expensive machinery, nor cheap accessories. Nothing, actually.. Unfortunate lesson, but cheap at the price. Be sure that the owner/operators know this, as do the manufacturers of the machinery.

If you don't feel comfortable laying out the details in public, could I ask you to PM me with the details of retail and manufacturer? Them there kinda fellas I don't want to do bidness with.

[Art Mulder]

This is one of the reasons I no longer shop at Best Buy.

wait... because you get product that has been previously opened? Or because they charge you a restocking fee?

[johnny means]

What do you mean by critical dimension? Was it something that could reasonably be foreseen a necessary for the user to know?

Judging by your post I'm assuming there are large bits of cast iron and steel involved. I, for one, think its unreasonable for retailers to absorb the cost of every impulse buyer who decides he/she would rather have his/her $2000 than the machine theythey just bought. Not that you are one of these people, but rules aren't made to protect us from thoughtful, responsible folk.

I live I'm the area where Sandy just did a heap of damage. Before the storm all our local borgs posted a no returns on generators rule. This was necessary to protect themselves from profiteers who would blow there life savings buying up generators to sell after the storm withwith the idea that the store would just take back anything they couldn't sell.

I know plenty of guys in my field who would have no problem buying a large machine just to get one big job out the door, then return it. Its these guys who make the testy of us pay restocking fees and such.

[Myk Rian]

15% is the usual fee I've seen posted in stores.

[Matt Meiser]

wait... because you get product that has been previously opened? Or because they charge you a restocking fee?

Because they charge the fee open or not and pretty much no one else does.

[Mike Heidrick]

No one smart would charge a great customer like JR a restocking fee. That would be very bad for business.

What tool did we miss a deal on??

Mikie

[Kevin Bourque]

I ordered a drive belt from Sears online for an older machine i rarely use.
When it came it was the wrong size so I sent it back for a refund.
I was denied the refund because I had ordered the belt from the machine's schematic they had on their website, not a live operator.
I said to the guy , "but it's not my fault. It's the wrong part # on YOUR schematic!!!"

I've got it hanging on my wall now,

[Mike Ruggeri]

Not to derail the thread, but its funny because I returned a TV to Best Buy and there was no restocking fee. I asked before I bought it and they said I could return it if I didn't like it provided I returned it within 30 days. They even came and picked it up at no cost to me (it was a large flat screen). Wonder if they set their policy on a regional basis or a store by store basis.

[Gary Herrmann]

The opened box thing is interesting. I got a screaming deal on a DP from Amazon years ago because it was considered used. It had been delivered to another guy who couldn't get it off the truck without liftgate and didn't think to ask for one.

Dang, JR. $190. That stings. Sorry to hear that.

[Dan Hintz]

Because they charge the fee open or not and pretty much no one else does.

What weird Best Buys have you been shopping at?!

[Matt Meiser]

It's been a couple years since I last checked. Amazon charges less almost invariably AND doesn't charge a restock fee AND doesn't make a habit of lying to and cheating their customers so I generally shop there. Maybe they changed the policy back.

Anyway, I think in Ohio it's illegal unless the customer is informed before the purchase or its displayed in a conspicuous manner. Best Buy had posted GIANT signs with the return policy.

If the store is going to do this then I would assume they discount open box merchandise? Which to be fair I think Best Buy does or did?

[J.R. Rutter]

I should clarify that so far, I have not been charged a restocking fee at all. The local counter guys have known me for close to 20 years, so it was no big deal to show up and return it. It was the corporate customer service people over the phone who wanted to do an RMA process and charge the $190. Maybe they will try to charge it to my card after the fact, but hopefully not.

I guess I started the thread because I got to work this morning after the return and got the VM from yesterday mentioning the 10% restocking fee. No harm, no foul at this point. It just surprised me.

This was a machine accessory that ended up being designed differently that I thought it would be based on a data sheet and catalog photography. If I give any more details, you will all know who the company is. :-) No point in bringing them up as it stands now. If they do charge me, you will hear about it.

[Peter Quinn]

What do you mean by critical dimension? Was it something that could reasonably be foreseen a necessary for the user to know?

Judging by your post I'm assuming there are large bits of cast iron and steel involved. I, for one, think its unreasonable for retailers to absorb the cost of every impulse buyer who decides he/she would rather have his/her $2000 than the machine theythey just bought. Not that you are one of these people, but rules aren't made to protect us from thoughtful, responsible folk.

I live I'm the area where Sandy just did a heap of damage. Before the storm all our local borgs posted a no returns on generators rule. This was necessary to protect themselves from profiteers who would blow there life savings buying up generators to sell after the storm withwith the idea that the store would just take back anything they couldn't sell.

I know plenty of guys in my field who would have no problem buying a large machine just to get one big job out the door, then return it. Its these guys who make the testy of us pay restocking fees and such.


My SIL works for a big box hardware chain, we are in North East. She has told me too many stories about shameless customers buying merchandise, using it, returning it for credit. Yard machines, power tools, you name it. Taking advantage of the stores liberal return policy. Yes, people will buy a snow blower, use it for some period, return it for refund. Sometimes turn around and buy a second one, return it later. Or buy a generator, use it for a week, return it. Need a deck, buy a miter box, return it when you are done! Its not just profiteers, its some portion of the public that feels entitled to use a store's CS policy as a free of charge rental center. So there are two reasons for those no return policy's.

Sandy largely missed us thankfully, but last year we got the Irene/Halloween Storm double whammy. I bought a generator and was given the stern "No returns" speech upon check out. I'm was LOL at the whole situation. House cold, natural disaster, several days without power, no generators anywhere, the Borg jumps through hoops to make them available quickly, and at a very reasonable price too IMO, and some people will actually take advantage of that, then try to return the device once the need is satisfied. Gross.

I can sort of see the restocking fee as a policy, but I can also see waving it for good customers. Hopefully thats what they have done. I really don't like buying tools I haven't seen in person and touched for just this reason. It might not be what you though, may be different in some critical way. I wish you could take machines for a test drive like cars. Most times you can't.

[Larry Frank]

I would not want to pay a restocking fee of that much. I think that they avoided the restocking fee because he is a good customer and carefully opened and re-closed the item.

I think that companies have to protect themselves from people who return things or packaging in poor condition.

I almost never will buy an open package item unless I am really certain what I am getting. If the packing tape has been previously opened then it is an open package in my opinion.

[Rick Fisher]

I am in the building supply business.. When BORG opened in our area, allegedly one of our contract sales guys wrote a quote for a half dozen circular saw at about $20.00 below cost so that the contractor could take it to BORG and have it beat by 10% ..

I got a call from upset BORG manager ..

Pretty funny, but not good policy..

[Ronald Blue]

It sounds like you are okay on the return. However as has been alluded to the unscrupulous cause us all to pay. I won't say I was recently burned by this because it worked out. But I for one think some retailers probably need to be more careful of open returns. I bought hardwood flooring and had it delivered for convenience. It was hickory which is a mixture of light and dark. All boxes but 4 out of 18 were still factory banded. It's rather ironic that the first of those that weren't sealed contained 100% all light colored hickory and I think was short a few boards. I did not open anymore of those and had 3 "full" boxes to return. At least they were full and complete if someone hadn't done the same trick. I am always leery of packaging that isn't "right". I am NOT accusing you of that. But most places including Best Buy can't sell as new if the packaging is open. That's why you can find open box specials at Best Buy. It sounds like all is well for you and that's great. You had a valid argument as well it sounds when it didn't meet your needs and the description didn't supply the information needed.

[John Coloccia]

I don't think a restocking fee is unreasonable if I just change my mind on an order. It costs money to take the order, crate it, uncrate the return, repackage it if necessary...that's a lot of time and money so it's reasonable to charge a bit for my own mistake.

Now, if it came to me damaged or substantially different than what I had ordered and I couldn't use it, they would take it back with no restocking fee. The alternative is I call my CC company, contest the charge, and if the dealer wants it back they can send someone to my house to pick it up if they'd like but I'm done with it. Once I have to pull the nuclear option, I'm not lifting another finger. I've only had to do that exactly once, I think. Most dealers are pretty reasonable.

[Steve Griffin]

Pay the restocking fee. It costs the rest of us every time someone thinks they deserve special treatment.

You bought the tool fully knowing that you had incomplete information and voluntarily took a risk that the product might not work for your space. Take responsibility for your choices.

[Matt Meiser]

No he didn't. He specifically said he found out after he opened it and that he pictures were misleading.

[Bob Wingard]

Put the charge in dispute with your credit card company ... they can't ADD a fee after the transaction has occurred without your permission !!!

If it IS their policy, and they goofed ... it's also their loss. Policy must me posted in a conspicuous manner ... BEST BUY gets away with printing it on the back side of your receipt in light blue ink, using about 6 point type. THAT tactic has been challenged and defeated. Better Business Bureau and your state consumer fraud dept. can be your friends in disputes such as this.

[John Coloccia]

I don't know if anyone noticed, but JR wasn't charged a restocking fee. Also, I don't think BB charges a restocking fee as far as I know. That may be an old policy.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

J.R.

Question?

Could you have examined one on the showroom floor prior to buying and bringing one home?

[Phil Thien]

JR, I agree that 10% under the circumstances would have been excessive. Glad you didn't have to pay anything.

Now if the vendors are smart, they will fix their sales literature so there is no doubt about the aspect that put you through this exercise.

[David Kumm]

J. R. is probably heard enough but keep in mind the manufacturer and the seller appear to be different parties here. Problem may have been caused by the mfgr but the seller is stuck just like J.R.. He is the one that likely bears the cost or lost revenue selling an opened package. Like much of life the people who cause the problems and the ones who pay are not the same. Dave

[J.R. Rutter]

J.R.

Question?

Could you have examined one on the showroom floor prior to buying and bringing one home?

They did not have a showroom model available.

[J.R. Rutter]

J. R. is probably heard enough but keep in mind the manufacturer and the seller appear to be different parties here. Problem may have been caused by the mfgr but the seller is stuck just like J.R.. He is the one that likely bears the cost or lost revenue selling an opened package. Like much of life the people who cause the problems and the ones who pay are not the same. Dave

Good point, David, but in this case the mfgr and seller are the same. So they also were the ones who did not do a very good job with the literature. For many people, the dimension that I needed probably would not be a big deal. But the way the product was designed differs from similar products in this one little area that ended up being the dealbreaker for my application. And I was using it for its intended purpose.

[J.R. Rutter]

Say you bought a power feeder directly from Delta. Based on every other feeder of theirs that you had seen and used, the wheels were flush to the side of the feeder that you would run against the fence. There is no picture or drawing or dimension listed in the literature that would lead you to believe that this theoretical new feeder is any different. But when you open it up, the feed wheels are inset one inch from the side of the feeder. This means that you cannot run the wheels as close to the cutterhead as you need to for skinny strips. There is no modification that you can make to the feeder to allow you to get any closer.

My situation was very similar. This has been an interesting discussion, and I do agree that some people abuse return policies, to everyone's detriment but theirs. I guess that it never occurred to me that a restocking fee would apply to me in my specific situation. Like I said earlier, my first post was a gut reaction of surprise that I might have been on the hook for close to $200 just to open a box...

[David Kumm]

Good point, David, but in this case the mfgr and seller are the same. So they also were the ones who did not do a very good job with the literature. For many people, the dimension that I needed probably would not be a big deal. But the way the product was designed differs from similar products in this one little area that ended up being the dealbreaker for my application. And I was using it for its intended purpose.

J.R. I'm with you totally now. Dave

[John Lifer]

I'll jump on with two comments, one, 10% in this case might be warranted if this is a special order or not normally stocked item that would be going back to manufacturer. Maybe even 15%. Your lucky if not charged. I'd still argue if you are good customer. Best Buy will take returns with receipts with no restocking charge. As long as you don't open up the package. And most items offer up clear evidence they've been opened. They, as are all stores, retail or wholesale are there to sell items, not take them back. And as far as the big boxes are concerned, Generators are the only thing I've ever seen marked especially well by no returns accepted.

[Brian Elfert]

Just to clarify, Best Buy dropped their restocking fee two years ago.

For machinery returns on a non-stocked item, a restocking fee seems in order especially since there may be high shipping costs for the dealer to return the item. In this case, the item is substantially different than advertised so the manufacturer should be taking the hit. I did return a DJ-20 jointer unopened and exchanged it for a Powermatic 6" jointer instead. There was simply no way to get the DJ-20 into my basement due to the size and weight.

[Dave Lehnert]

Example- Here is the return policy from a popular woodworking tool dealer that just happens to have a showroom in the same town, Bellingham, WA, as the OP. So the policy is not uncommon.
http://www.grizzly.com/qa_questions.aspx#RETURNS

I think the key here is the OP got a refund with no restocking fee. Sounds like the company in question took care of a good customer the way they should under the circumstances.


I don't know about anyone else but I ALWAYS check a store return policy before making a purchase. I very seldom return anything, but like the OP I want to be sure there is no problem with a refund if I find out an item is not what I thought it was.

[Rollie Meyers]

I am in the building supply business.. When BORG opened in our area, allegedly one of our contract sales guys wrote a quote for a half dozen circular saw at about $20.00 below cost so that the contractor could take it to BORG and have it beat by 10% ..

I got a call from upset BORG manager ..


Pretty funny, but not good policy..

Reminds me of a story of a electrical contractor tired of a certain general contractor bid shopping his bid, a competitor always got the bids, so when he was asked to bid a project he put the bid together then took a risk & cut the price in half, the competitor got the bid & part way through the project the "winning" EC called the other EC to complain, bid shopping is a shady practice & he deserved to lose his hind end. :D

[John Piwaron]

While I don't like them, if I know *before* I make a purchase, o.k. I'll factor it in to my decision. It's going to enrage me if it gets announced in "surprise!" fashion after the sale.

Before I buy anything I check the stores return policy. Online or brick 'n mortar. It avoids much unpleasantness down the road. If it's not to my, the consumer, liking, then I just don't buy. The retailer can't possibly be unhappy, I followed his/her rule.

Best Buy - not my favorite place to buy things. I recall one episode where I bought one of their extended warranties on an item. When it failed and I needed to invoke that warranty, without the receipt they wouldn't do a thing for me. It was like they didn't know me. Never mind all the product registrations and the like I've filled in over time. I did ultimately find a receipt for the item and was taken care of after that. But it shouldn't take finding the original receipt printed on paper with disappearing ink.

Have you noticed that? All the receipts I've gotten from retailers, *any* retailer, that uses a cash register with a thermal printer for receipts, will fade to white within a couple of years. Just about the time you may need it for a warranty claim. Nowadays I scan and copy such receipts before filing them away.

[Steve Griffin]

Say you bought a power feeder directly from Delta. Based on every other feeder of theirs that you had seen and used, the wheels were flush to the side of the feeder that you would run against the fence. There is no picture or drawing or dimension listed in the literature that would lead you to believe that this theoretical new feeder is any different. But when you open it up, the feed wheels are inset one inch from the side of the feeder. This means that you cannot run the wheels as close to the cutterhead as you need to for skinny strips. There is no modification that you can make to the feeder to allow you to get any closer.

My situation was very similar. This has been an interesting discussion, and I do agree that some people abuse return policies, to everyone's detriment but theirs. I guess that it never occurred to me that a restocking fee would apply to me in my specific situation. Like I said earlier, my first post was a gut reaction of surprise that I might have been on the hook for close to $200 just to open a box...

Whoa, this changes everything about my view of the situation.

While I normally side with the seller when someone opens a package, and think 10% is very fair (it probably costs them more), you have been caught by something that borders on a manufacturing defect.

Wheels not flush to the housing on a power feeder? That's an extremely unconventional and dimwitted design flaw, which no customer should be reasonably be able to predict. I thought you were talking about buying a table saw which didn't fit through your doorway or something, in which case you should pay restocking fees and say sorry for causing so much trouble.

This manufacturer deserves nothing but a bad reputation in this case.

[Myk Rian]

Put the charge in dispute with your credit card company ...
READ THE THREAD!!!!! He wasn't charged a fee.
Too many people read 3 messages of a thread.

[Brian Elfert]

READ THE THREAD!!!!! He wasn't charged a fee.
Too many people read 3 messages of a thread.

I read the whole thread. He got a phone call after the return stating a 10% restocking fee. He may yet be charged the restocking fee.

[John Piwaron]

Tough crowd! :)

[Jim Neeley]

If you'd read the thread carefully you would be aware that the voice mail, picked up later, was from the original call of inquiry, not from the return personnel.

[Chris Fournier]

This whole situation is pretty straight forward - if you wanna play you gotta pay. Re-stocking fees are painfully common. If you ordered in a widget and then you decided it wasn't for you then I see a re-stocking fee in your future. If you are a good customer with the supplier then I see the potential for negotiation or forgiveness. 10% is a gift. 25 % is not unheard of and in my experience the bench mark. We all need to be responsible for our actions and sometimes this costs money. Whining is pathetic. I know that even good/nice guys whine (me included) but man up and carry your own water. Take the time to consider the cost involved in the suppliers actions which he undertook to satisfy your request. $190.00 would likely not cover them. And yes I understand and have read THAT THE OP HAS NOT BEEN CHARGED A RESTOCKING FEE for those who are CAP oriented.