TS Outfeed and extension ideas - Help wanted

[Bobby O'Neal]

I have an old Craftsman contractors saw with a Delta T2 fence that is in need of a new outfeed solution and while I am at it I want to include extensions to replace the cast iron webbed turds that are on it now. I plan to use the plan on Jim Becker's site, basically. In the fixed portion of that I want to include new extensions, with one continuous surface. So picture instead of a long, narrow rectangle hanging off the back of the saw it will be a "U" shape bolted to the back and sides of the existing top.

So my questions are construction based. In my head I picture some sort of torsion box style to make it lighter and also give me access to bolts and perhaps needing some sort of steel reinforcement at the inner most edges where the bolting action will take place. And for a top, I assume I will have to use some sort of laminate but do not know where to start there. Can I buy some sort of phenolic to laminate with or something comparable?

Anybody with thoughts or similar experiences, I'd love to hear it. Thanks.


Bobby

[Jim O'Dell]

Wow, I think you are on the right track. But my experience with torsion boxes is you have to start with a known flat surface. I use my table saw and extension for that. The one time I tried it a different way it was a flop and I had to cut up and throw away about 90 dollars in materials, not to mention my time. The issue I see with building a U shaped one is keeping it all flat during the build. I worked for a car stereo company back in the 90s, and they had such a beast. It wasn't a torsion box, but a metal framework with I think 3/4" MDF or ply on it. It was about 12-14' long X 8' deep with a Uni in the middle of one long side. The other issue is getting the laminate on and seamed smoothly.
With this in mind, I'd recommend building an extension table as long as you want and the same depth as the saw. You can build a couple outfeed tables of whatever size you want also, just make the legs adjustable at the floor to be able to get it all in the same plane. That's basically what I do right now with my Grizzly G0691. I moved the fence to the right about 14" rebuilt the extension table so I have 65" rip to the right of the blade. My old contractor saw is behind the extension table and I have a mobile outfeed table, all on the same plane. This keeps the laminate where you don't have any seams to deal with. Seams can be handled, but most of us don't have the tooling and experience that a countertop guy has. Here's a picture of my set up to illustrate: 246619 I also have a mobile RAS and a mobile Router table, all at the same height. I use the latter two for infeed table help for sheet goods. I can pull sheets straight off the van onto the two infeed helpers, and then straight into the saw. It allows me to handle 3/4" ply or MDF by myself without the need for a hospital stay afterward. :p Hope this helps. Not going to say don't go for the U-shaped surround table, but I think this will be easier. Jim.

edit: Oh, forgot to mention, you can get phenolic in sheets too, but it is expensive. The black Wilsonart laminate I just bought was 58.00 at the local distributor. (I don't have a business so I don't get a break) I have purchased it for 42.00 at Home Depot, but none of their stores close to me stock it anymore, and I didn't have time to get to the Dallas area to pick it up. The green laminate surfaces in the background of the shot was from Home Depot when they were getting out of that business locally. Got a great price on it, like 22 bucks a sheet. Tried to get some more but waited too long.

[Bobby O'Neal]

My known flat surface may have to be one that I create for this occasion. There was a Wood Whisperer episode about an assembly table build and to start he made a "table" out of jointed 2x4s on leveled saw horses, basically. I may give that a whirl or something like it.

The real desire to have it set up as a "U" shape fixed to the table with the rest of the outfeed hanging off the back is for total mobility. I have little space and want the whole thing to be semi collapsible. So I also have little space for helpers to roll up for support. I wonder if building the "U" out of three parts and then fastening them together on the same plane (maybe while fitted to the saw) and then removing them and laminating last would work...? Not sure. If that were the case I'd avoid any seams. I don't mind any large cut offs of the laminate. It'd be good use later for jigs. I really need to avoid seams, for sure. Don't have the skills to deal with them.

Jim, your setup looks great. That black looks really sharp. Those laminate prices you listed are for what size sheets?

[Jim O'Dell]

47" X 97" Same size as a sheet of MDF. You can get 60"x 120" also, though I never have. The nice thing about separate tables is you don't have to worry about a seam...you have a gap between tables. My contactor saw and the mobile outfeed table are often 12-18" apart. Works very well for me. I didn't laminate my outfeed table. May one of these days but it was serving as my assembly table as well. Now I have a new assembly table, which I did laminate. So I may have to do the outfeed table in the future. Jim.

[Bobby O'Neal]

Interesting. I looked up Wilsonart and they are right here in Nashville. That may be a good deal for me. Will have to make a phone call tomorrow.

Unrelated, that is a beautiful dog in your avatar.

Thanks for the help, Jim.

[Jim O'Dell]

I'd still try the local Home Depot. Look up online, plug 4 X 8 Wilsonart into the search. It pops up 3 or 4 colors here, then you can look to see which store, if any, has it in stock. If not, the distributor will have all colors and all sizes. And it may be newer stock as they will deal with businesses that go through the product faster that Home Depot.
Thanks for the compliment on the pup. That is Jadestar Stetson, aka Ryder. He was about 3 months old in that picture. He's 11 months old now and is a typical obnoxious, bratty Irish Setter juvenile delinquent. But he is also a lot of fun. We also have a 13 month old setter of sorts, totally black. We think he is a miss-marked Gordon Setter, or a Gordon Setter/? mix. He is the sweetest dog we have ever owned, and the first of about 200 rescues that have graced our house that wasn't allowed to leave. Jim.

[Bobby O'Neal]

Well Ryder is a handsome dude.

And good call on the Depot. My local store can get the matte black for $42.00. That'd be enough for extensions, outfeed and maybe a small jig or two.

[Bobby O'Neal]

Also, when you've used a laminate what did you use for adhesive? And I am assuming you applied it to a plywood skin.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Well Ryder is a handsome dude.

And good call on the Depot. My local store can get the matte black for $42.00. That'd be enough for extensions, outfeed and maybe a small jig or two.Because of my business, I can buy from local distributor, but HD's national pricing beats my price, so I order through HD / Lowes, and most of the time drive over and pick up laminate. Used to go to HD that was five minutes from distributor, order and by time I got there laminate guy was rolling my order.

[Jim O'Dell]

I use the Weldwood Contact Cement, Original Formula. It smells, but it works. I've heard bad stories about the water based formula. I get it from HD as well. It's in the paint department buy the glues. I use 1" rollers from HD as well, about 6" long. I never bought a J-roller to use, but they would be helpful. I use a piece of 2X4 that I glued felt onto. When you get to doing the big flat surfaces, make sure you have a bunch of thin slat material. I've used 1/4" plywood before, that works well. Recently I had a venetian blind go bad and kept the slats from it. Just make sure you wipe them clean right before using or you'll leave some debris on the table that will leave a lump in the finish. DAMHIK!!! You can see the results on my shop thread when I built my router table. Make sure to let the glue get just to the point you can touch it and it isn't wet. Put the slats down, then lay the laminate on top of them. This will allow you to position the laminate where it overhangs the table on all sides. Note: make sure you start with the laminate about 2" larger than the table so you have a 1" overlap on all sides. I start in the middle, slide a couple slats out, check to make sure I still have my overhang, and then use my 2x4 to press the laminate into the top all the way across the table width. Then working from the middle to one end, I pull a couple slats and press the laminate onto the table, sliding from the middle that is already stuck to the new part that I just created. When that half is finished, I do the same thing, again from the middle out, to the other end. Let it sit for an hour, then trim off the overhang with a flush template bit in my router. If you are going to do the sides, I always do them first, then do the top. I do the two short ends first, then the two long ends. Only put glue on the parts you are doing. You don't want glue on another surface when you route the excess laminate, or the pieces will stick in the glue and you will have a mess on your hands.
I always use MDF. It is more stable, and has a perfectly smooth surface. No irregularities to telegraph through the laminate. It does make for a heavier table, but I've never had an issue with it. If weight is an issue, you might try the LDF.

Bruce, I've looked at Lowe's before, but their price on laminate for the same black color is 96 or 98 bucks for the sheet. They stock the Formica brand here. I've found that the Wilsonart and Pionite brands are within a few cents of each other from the distributors. Jim.

[Ole Anderson]

If you want to go with a torsion box, here is a great video showing David Marks building one:

http://vimeo.com/5082731

Once you have the box done you can always cover it with laminate, best to go top and bottom and with solvent based contact cement so you don't get any warping by wetting one side at a time with water based cement.

[Ben Hatcher]

I built the Daivd Marks torsion box. It is nice and flat, but it is extremely heavy. If you plan to remove it, I suggest you look into plain old melamine or laminated mdf. Both are plenty strong for such small spans.

[Bobby O'Neal]

I don't plan on this ever having to be moved unless its to the trash eventually. It's be nice to keep it light and self supporting but most important is flat and seamless.