Which jointer for general use?

[Greg Portland]

I want to get a jointer for edge prep and to play around with stock surfacing. My work ranges in size from jewelry box sizes to larger cabinets. Initial lumber size tends to be 5/4 & ~5" wide and I tend to work with white oak, maple, and cherry. What's the practical differences between a #7, #8, and a low angle jointer (LN, etc.)? Is a 45° frog versus a 55° frog going to make a big difference given my usage?

[Andrae Covington]

I want to get a jointer for edge prep and to play around with stock surfacing. My work ranges in size from jewelry box sizes to larger cabinets. Initial lumber size tends to be 5/4 & ~5" wide and I tend to work with white oak, maple, and cherry. What's the practical differences between a #7, #8, and a low angle jointer (LN, etc.)? Is a 45° frog versus a 55° frog going to make a big difference given my usage?

For a wide range of work, I would stick with a #7 size jointer. Even that size can feel a little bit unwieldy when working on very small pieces. If you do a lot of large-scale work, then a #8 makes sense. I've wanted one for a while just for the extra mass, but can't justify the purchase to myself for how infrequently I would use it.

IMO, there's no need for a high-angle frog on a jointer plane unless most of your work is in woods with difficult grain. A higher angle is just going to make it more difficult to push. As long as you don't willfully plane against the grain with reckless abandon, the occasional tearout that happens can be cleaned up later with the smooth plane. The smooth plane then may benefit from a high-angle frog or blade.

I don't have strong feelings about bevel-down vs. bevel-up (low angle). My jointer is a bevel-up Veritas. But one nice thing about the bevel-up planes is that you can buy extra blades, and so have one ground to a high angle if you need it from time to time.

[David Weaver]

If you're going to be using your jointer to do actual jointing work (as opposed to just matching edges that have already been run on a jointer or running of planer chatter), I would probably decide between an LN 7 and an LN 8, and if budget is an issue, get a stanley version of the same.

If I had only one premium plane, that would probably be it (actually, I only have one premium BD bench plane - I don't use BU planes much - and it is a LN 7).

It would be in 45 degrees, regardless of the wood worked, because the second iron can be used with not too much skill required to make the plane work well in less than cooperative woods. If you have a higher angle frog, it'll be a dog to use in a heavy and wide cut when you don't need the tearout control, and it'll make for fairly ugly work on very soft woods.

If you are going to match a lot of 5/4 edges to glue panels, you might appreciate the extra width and heft of an 8, and same with the LN. For a hand tooler, it makes more sense to do that work with rough wood than it does to plane it, glue it, and then plane it again.

[Zach Dillinger]

The rule of thumb is that your jointer can reliably joint between 2 or 3 times its own length. So if you do 2 or 3 foot pieces, a 14 to 16 inch plane will work. If you do mostly 4 or 5 foot pieces, a 22 to 24 inch plane will be fine. If you do 8 foot pieces, you'll want a 30" jointer. It all depends on what stock you work most.

[Pat Megowan]

All the ones you mention will do all the work you describe.

You ask about practical differences: the feel of a tool is a highly practical difference. If at all possible use the different sizes, styles, and brands, they feel surprisingly different. At hand tool events I can't generally predict what will work best for a person; sometimes a petite woman likes and planes better with an 8, while a big guy hits his stride on a 7.

While a 7 and 8 feel notably different from each other, a bevel up feels like another animal to me, more front heavy. Bevel downs balance better for most people, with the heel resting at a comfortable spot on under the forearm when you pause to check (or admire;-) your work (holding the plane in one hand, checking surface with the other).

I strongly agree w/suggestion to get the 45 degree frog because of planing effort, and in practice it's a very practical angle.

Bevel ups are easy to change planing angle with secondary bevel, but w/double bevel sharpening (search it) you can do the same with a bevel down. In practice most people don't change angles. Just stay sharp, take lighter cuts on more difficult woods.

Consider getting the plane that feels best in use rather than worrying about rules of thumb for length. Your technique is far more important.

A quality jointer is a lovely thing, whatever the brand.

[Chris Griggs]

I'm a huge fan of the No. 6 for the majority of my jointing, but I also have an No. 8 for when I am working stuff over 3 to 5ft foot range. I really like the No. 8 both mine and the LN which I've only tried at shows (and would love to own some day). That said if I didn't already have a 6 I'd probably get a 7 as it would be easier to use for the majority of my work and still long enough to use on some of the slightly bigger stuff I do. Like Zach said it all depends on the lengths you work the most. Given what you said about the range of your scale of work, and assuming you have no other planes I agree with others that a 7 is good. Off course if you are feeling really crazy and 8 plus either a 5, 5 1/2 or 6 would be even better!

[Zach Dillinger]

To add to my earlier post, it is also possible to joint small scale pieces on a larger plane by holding the plane upside down in a vise and passing the wood over it. It really isn't difficult to get a square edge on small piece using this technique. Just watch your fingertips and the heels of your hands. Little potato chip shavings and copious amounts of blood can ensue with a lapse in concentration...

[Sam Takeuchi]

A wooden jointer. It'll do just as good as metal one if fit is good and no big problems. Generally you can get one for fraction of a metal one, even compared to a vintage Stanley and others. If you want to get a fancier metal ones, wide array of options are available as others suggested already. If you just want one that works well, then there you go.

[Chris Fournier]

The LN 7 and some proper technique will joint anything you want for residential furniture work. The LN 8 would be gravy. I don't buy into the three times rule personally although longer is certainly better.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

A jointer plane is one place where I think the more perfect machining of a Lie Nielsen or Lee Valley plane really shines. Outside of that, I'd be looking towards wooden planes, just because they're easier to tune, even if you end up having to do it more often, or paying a close eye to the condition of a used jointer. I don't think (in my admittedly less experienced opinion) that you need super-machinist-flat to do good work, but I've come across a few jointer planes in the wild I would readily pass on. The price of the examples I wouldn't pass on is often close enough that the new LV/LN planes seems much more appealing. Compared to something like a #4 or #5, used vintage metal jointers are often harder to come across, as well, at least in my neck of the woods.

That said, I sling an old Millers Falls #22 (same as a Stanley #7) for all sorts of work and love it, even though it's not in great shape. I've used the LN #7 and #8 at their hand tool events, and as nice as they are, the weight difference between the LN 7 and my MF 22 is drastic - having done a whole lot of surfacing by hand (I don't really have access to power tools) I'm not sure I'd want to be using that for the long periods of time I've used my jointer for. The LN number 8 even more so.

It actually makes me curious about the weight of the LN and LV bevel up jointers. I should look into that.

One of these days I want to build myself a wooden jointer.

While I don't think you *need* a plane a certain length for certain work, it certainly makes life a lot easier - less ability to mess things up, and less thinking involved. When you've been working hard for a few hours, it's nice to be able to just worry about pushing the plane, keeping pressure correct during the stroke, and let the length of the plane worry about keeping the surface true.

[steven c newman]

I have both a Stanley #8c ( @TEN pounds of weight), and a "Bob-tailed" KK7. Use them from time to time on long stuff, but mostly i reach for either of my two #6s. A bit lighter, and the wood they work on is a bit shorter. A #6, and a #6c. Somewhere in the shop, a Union #5A lurks about, but it's more of a panel smoother.

[Jim Koepke]

I want to get a jointer for edge prep and to play around with stock surfacing. My work ranges in size from jewelry box sizes to larger cabinets. Initial lumber size tends to be 5/4 & ~5" wide and I tend to work with white oak, maple, and cherry. What's the practical differences between a #7, #8, and a low angle jointer (LN, etc.)? Is a 45° frog versus a 55° frog going to make a big difference given my usage?

If you want to give a couple of old Stanley/Bailey planes a workout, you aren't too far from me. Send me a PM. If your schedule isn't too hectic before the holidays we could do it before Christmas if you need to know for Santa to order you one.

If you can wait, LN usually has tool events in Portland. I think they are usually in October or so.

I thought a #7 would be my last big plane. Then a tool seller in an antique shop in Woodburn gave me a great deal on a #8. I tend to use them about equally.

I also use smaller planes for joining work.

jtk

[Dave Beauchesne]

I bought the LN 7-1/2 due to the fact I like to dabble in figured wood - with a 1/4'' blade and about 7.5# in heft, it is a beast that
works very well - a spare blade sharpened to say 40* will give you a 52* angle of attack, makes short work of nasty grain - as well, the adjustable mouth lets you close it up real tight for almost any situation.
Just my 2 cents - - - -

Dave B

[Bill Rhodus]

All of the replies you have recieved are valid and I doubt you would go wrong by following the advice in any of the posts. However, let me add a twist to the advice already posted; as mentioned earlier, the better machining of the LN or Veritas planes will virtually eliminate the possibility of a poor performing plane due to minor variations in the older planes machining or the minor twisting and turning a casting does over the years as stress is relieved. If you are very familiar with tuning hand planes this is not an issue; you decide. Also, as someone who has made and uses wooden planes regularly, I would not recommend them to someone without a mentor or an experienced user as there is a greater learning curve and maintenance issues to consider. Once again, determined by where you are on the experience curve. Also, as someone who has made an effort to reduce the number of plane in use in my shop I have progressed thru all of the suggestions above and have settled on the Veritas jointer; the bevel up design allows me to use a low angle iron for most of my work and purchase a high angle iron for woods that tend to tear out. The geometry of the Veritas is also somewhat different; there is a greater length of sole in front of the mouth and this makes it perform as well as the #8. Also, the lack of a chipbreaker is no concern as minor tear out is generally not an issue for a jointer and can be controlled with the high angle iron. Sorry if I rambled, but if I can help, let me know.

[Zach Dillinger]

A wooden jointer. It'll do just as good as metal one if fit is good and no big problems. Generally you can get one for fraction of a metal one, even compared to a vintage Stanley and others. If you want to get a fancier metal ones, wide array of options are available as others suggested already. If you just want one that works well, then there you go.

Absolutely! I'm an ardent fan of wooden planes, and thats why I always suggest planes by length (i.e. 22 inch-ish plane, not a #7). Wooden planes are in fact easier to use in my viewpoint, easier to tune and adjust. They are a fine choice for anyone.

[Curt Putnam]

I want to get a jointer for edge prep and to play around with stock surfacing. My work ranges in size from jewelry box sizes to larger cabinets. Initial lumber size tends to be 5/4 & ~5" wide and I tend to work with white oak, maple, and cherry. What's the practical differences between a #7, #8, and a low angle jointer (LN, etc.)? Is a 45° frog versus a 55° frog going to make a big difference given my usage?

If edge prep is the major concern, you should consider the LV Veritas BU jointer with the optional fence. Get a spare blade or two and grind them to whatever angle works for the current wood. Those same spare blades can also be used in the BU jack and smoother. That's what I did. I have Stanleys in 3,4,5 and 6 sizes and a Chaplin #8 as well as the suite of LV bevel-ups. At WIA, I watched Adam Cherubini do some phenomenal work with his woodies. They are lighter and very maneuverable as compared to a metal plane, but since they are lighter you need to put more downward pressure on them. Your bench also wants to be lower. I would not use a high angle in a jointer because the pushing is harder and you are still trying to remove stock at the jointer stage. Deneb recommends a high angle frog for the LN smoothers. In the end, all you are trying to do is to get a surface flat, longer beds will get bigger panels or boards flatter easier but all will do the job. Get a Stanley #7 or a woodie from a reputable source. If you wallet permits, get hte LV BU #7 or the LN #7.

[Greg Portland]

Some background info:
- I primarily use power tools but have started to enjoy working more with hand tools. I'm starting to make the transition (this is strictly a hobby for me).
- Until now, I've primarily used a block and shoulder plane for joint cleanup and chamfering. I have a No 3 and No 5 Craftsman (1960s vintage) that I've tuned up (and added new blades) and use them to clean up machined board edges prior to glue-up.
- I primarily use a card scraper and scraper plane for surface prep (versus sanding)
- I've played with the LN and LV jointer planes at the trade shows but that is on their "demo wood" (everything cuts great :-) ).

A few of you have mentioned that some tear out when edge jointing is OK. I assume you'll make a pass or two with a smoother prior to glue up? I had always assumed that a properly tuned plane would make a clean cut? I mean clean enough for a glue-up, not finishing?

Jim, thanks for the kind offer. I've played around with the #6,7, and 8 planes already but am trying to wrap my head around the various frog angles, BU/BD, and what is actually necessary and/or a good starting point for a beginner.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim, thanks for the kind offer. I've played around with the #6,7, and 8 planes already but am trying to wrap my head around the various frog angles, BU/BD, and what is actually necessary and/or a good starting point for a beginner.

You are welcome.

To me a lot of the frog angle and BU/BD debate is synonymous with the debate of how many angles can dance on the head of a pin.

The most important aspect of using any plane is having the blade as sharp as possible.

In the BU/BD debate, the factors to remember is the lower the blade angle, the less effort required to push the plane. On the other hand, the lower the angle, the more likely for wood to lift from wedging action in front of the blade.

The higher angle of attack is less grain direction dependent in sheering off a shaving.

My main reason for buying a Low Angle Jack was due to an old shoulder injury that limited my ability to use a shooting board.

If you get out and about, it might be good to keep an eye on places like The Restore and used tool shops. Also check prices of completed sales on ebay so you know not to pay too much. There are a few places in Portland that carry used tools.

Here is one I have been to a couple of times.

https://plus.google.com/113931947817139747049/about?gl=us&hl=en

The person I dealt with was pretty easy going about pricing. Bring along what you may need, magnifier, screwdriver, sandpaper, to do a good inspection. Though I am sure they have plenty of old screwdrivers their.

jtk