Looking to buy a hand plane [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Jim Riseborough

11-28-2012, 1:03 PM

David Weaver

11-28-2012, 1:17 PM

How much stock thickness are you thinking you'll take off? If you're only planning on ever buying and mastering one plane, the LV LA jack is probably your best bet. The learning curve on most other planes is just slightly steeper.

Harold Burrell

11-28-2012, 1:25 PM

Ok, I have discovered that a hand plane might come in handy, better than going at a piece with a belt sander.

Can anyone give me a good idea what to buy for planing wood after a glue up, some sort of buyers guide? Lets assume money is no object, but dont need a trophy winner for best looking plane.

Thanks

Oh, boy...you might want to walk away now, while you still have the chance...

Beware of this "slippery slope".

;)

Seriously, if I were you I would probably look for an old Stanley #5 jack plane...and then a #4 (also called a smoother).

Next I would probably look for a good block plane (like a 60 1/2).

After that...well...you'll either find you can do just about everything you need...or...you'll fall off the cliff.

A real good resource for looking for old stanley's is here: http://www.brasscityrecords.com/toolworks/new%20tools.html

Walt is a great guy who sells good users at very fair prices and he's even willing to spend time with you on the phone and talk tools with you.

Jim Riseborough

11-28-2012, 1:25 PM

Im thinking 1/16" max, and this will be to flatten out some boards after glue ups, usually have a bit of a lip.

Harold Burrell

11-28-2012, 1:26 PM

the LV LA jack is probably your best bet.

And then there's that...:D

Jim Koepke

11-28-2012, 1:27 PM

Jim,

Your profile doesn't show your location. Send a PM if you live close to me, I have a full fleet of hand planes you could test drive.

Otherwise, my suggestion for planing off glue would be to see if there are any old Stanley/Bailey #5. The #4 & 5 tend to be the most commonly available planes at yard sales, flea markets and second hand stores.

Other than that, it would require more information on what kind of work you are doing.

If this is just for removing glue lines, a chisel or scrapper might be also be considered.

For more information on different planes and other considerations check here:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?148076-Getting-Started-With-Hand-Planes

This is in the Neanderthal wisdon/FAQs Sticky currently at the top of the Neanderthal Haven forum.

There are many other posts in the section worth a read. There are some links in the post linked above that will help with understanding planes.

If you have more questions, there are a lot of folks ready to answer.

jtk

Jim Riseborough

11-28-2012, 1:31 PM

Ok, my bad. Do you guys buy $200-$300 planes? I see the slippery slope thing now. Maybe I need to find a nice widebelt sander!

So how do these things perform with hard woods?

Jim Riseborough

11-28-2012, 1:32 PM

Not removing the glue itself, more the wood if the glue job wasnt as good as it should have been, and I cant get the board back thru my planer

Im near Dayton ohio.

Russell Sansom

11-28-2012, 1:34 PM

I've been restoring the interiors of victorian apartments (1900-1908 era ) for a few years now, mostly redwood and fir. My favorite all-arounder for this is a #6 Stanley with a spare blade. It can trim a door, joint lumber, and hog off quite a bit of an edge if necessary. My second choice is a simple #5 jack.
In the shop it's pretty hard to pick one. Through a historical accident my only good plane for many years was a #8, so I am biased towards the jointers and often find a way to make them do the job. I prefer more mass, so If I had to pick one it would be a #5. After shooting with the jointers for years, anything under a #5 feels awkward to me.
A #5 is a great choice since they're common and can be had at a decent price. You can supplement it with a premium spare blade and put together a shooting board and it should carry its weight in your shop for the rest of your life.

Jim Koepke

11-28-2012, 1:38 PM

Ok, my bad. Do you guys buy $200-$300 planes? I see the slippery slope thing now. Maybe I need to find a nice widebelt sander!

So how do these things perform with hard woods?

With a sharp blade, a plane can leave a glass like surface on most woods. The most difficult is when there is changing grain. The sharper the blade, the better the surface it will leave.

In my experience, if there is a small section of grain reversal, the last few shavings can be taken with a smoothing plane set for the thinest possible shaving against the grain. Most of the time this leaves a great surface. The key to this is as sharp a blade as can be had and as light a cut as the plane can take. Skewing the plane a bit also can help. Your mileage may vary. When to do what comes with experience.

jtk

Matt Radtke

11-28-2012, 1:40 PM

We use the fancy new ones, we use restored old ones. For the longest time, I had a full 'set' of vintage Stanleys, 3-8, including the fractional sizes. I've since added a few modern nice planes for the ones that got the most use. (A Lie-Nielsen 7, a LAJ is on the way from Cyber Monday, a LN 3 will probably be next.)

For 'hard woods,' planes work just fine. Certain woods can be tricky, but thats more a problem of reversing or swirling grain. About how big of a glue up and what species of wood are we talking about?

And do remember, the most important thing with any plane is sharpness. Even a brand new plane will need at least a little honing before it works optimally. And then regularly with use.

Jim Riseborough

11-28-2012, 1:41 PM

Would the chaps at Woodcraft be pretty knowledgeable about this too? looks like I can get a #5 stanley cheap on ebay, then make sure its sharp, and give it a whirl?

David Weaver

11-28-2012, 1:41 PM

Ok, my bad. Do you guys buy $200-$300 planes? I see the slippery slope thing now. Maybe I need to find a nice widebelt sander!

So how do these things perform with hard woods?

Some. Some more expensive, and some that are $10 or less.

But the $200 or whatever it is LV LA jack and a way to sharpen it is your best bet for initial success. it will take care of the 16th inch, work well in hard or soft woods and do fine work if you want to smooth, and do all of it with a fairly uncomplicated setup that still gives you a lot of control.

Jim Koepke

11-28-2012, 2:07 PM

Would the chaps at Woodcraft be pretty knowledgeable about this too? looks like I can get a #5 stanley cheap on ebay, then make sure its sharp, and give it a whirl?

Remember the "chaps at Woodcraft" are in the business of selling you something they have on the shelf.

There are good deals to be had on ebay. There are also a few folks who will not show the true condition of what is being sold. Here is my post on buying used hand planes.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?116419-Planes-and-a-Few-Things-to-Look-For

I have bought a few parts planes on ebay that ended up being great users. Also have bought a few with undisclosed damage. Until you have a better understanding of planes, I would look in antique stores, pawn shops and other used tool sources. For a useable #4 or 5, it shouldn't cost more than $25. The most I have paid for my common, used bench planes is $50. That was for a #8 in great condition.

Replacement blades are nice, but often cost more than the plane in which they are being used. Some of my planes do have replacement blades, but in most uses the original blade can do just as nice of a job.

jtk

Jim Riseborough

11-28-2012, 3:07 PM

I can get this:
http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-12-137-No-62-Angle-Plane/dp/B002B56CUY/ref=sr_1_9?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1354131748&sr=1-9&keywords=plane

David Weaver

11-28-2012, 3:14 PM

I wouldn't get that over the LA jack, but you can if you want. It's probably an Ok plane, and maybe even a fine one. There is no question about it with the LV, though, and if you only want to buy one plane, you really only want to do it once.

Jim Riseborough

11-28-2012, 3:31 PM

this one?
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/Page.aspx?p=49708&cat=1,41182,41186,49708

Do they ever have sales on these?

What tool steel should I get?

David Weaver

11-28-2012, 3:37 PM

Their sales are free shipping, not a decrease in price.

If you have oilstones, you should stick to O1 steel. If you don't, it really doesn't make a functional difference what steel you get, your time spent in the shop will be about the same regardless.

steven c newman

11-28-2012, 3:46 PM

I'm over in Bellefontaine, Oh. Let me know when , or if you would like to come up, and try out a few "old" planes.....246612

Jim Koepke

11-28-2012, 4:22 PM

this one?
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/Pag...82,41186,49708

Do they ever have sales on these?

Some folks prefer this one: http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=62

It is just a matter of preference. If you can get a chance to handle both, then it is easier to find which fits your hand better. Both are great planes with great customer service.

I like my #62 more for end grain than I do face planing. I only have one blade. When a higher angle is desired, a standard bench plane works fine.

My current #5s (4 of them) were all less than $20 each. All four totaled add up to about $40 spent plus the time to clean them up. The newest one, a type 17 is the only one that is not to my liking. For me, the pre 1930s planes are desired.

jtk

Dave Beauchesne

11-28-2012, 9:46 PM

Jim:

Not meant to scare or insult you, but it sounds like you are a bit green in regards to hand planes.

There is more to just picking up a used Stanley, sharpening it ( to the best of your ability ) and being very disappointed with the results compared to a belt sander. There is a steep curve to getting it right, but when you do, the ' EUREKA ' moment happens and that is it. You are hooked!

I don't know you, or your abilities, but strongly suggest you take Steven up on his generous offer - flattening out the learning hump is a great thing to do. I hope I didn't offend you in any way - - -

Good Luck!

Dave B

Russell Sansom

11-29-2012, 2:45 AM

I concur. There is absolutely no substitute for picking up a plane that an experienced woodworker tells you is working fine. You'll save money and time and you'll rocket right into where you want to go. If you haven't had this experience, it will seem like a miracle to you. I think we're all trying to say that to you in our different ways. You can find it through trial and error as many of us have, but it can take you years to have the assurance that you've found it. If somebody shows you, you can skip the grade school and move directly into hand tool adolescence. Highly recommended.

One more thing. As fantastic as new planes are from LV and Lie-Nielsen, even those blades aren't ready to go. They still need the the final lap marks taken out of the backs and then a small secondary bevel. The lower end planes may be fine structurally, but their irons are going to need even more initial work. Again, there is no price you can put the instant "ahah!" of a demonstration. Consider a Lie-Nielsen tool event. There would be a state of the art "ahah" for you.

Bobby O'Neal

11-29-2012, 6:12 AM

I'll also support the idea of going to visit Steven. It would serve you very well to go see and feel some items in action and get some perspective from somebody else about the bigger picture. Planes aren't as simple as sanders and I think that is why they perform a much more refined task.

My first experience with planes was very frustrating for these exact reasons. With no research and no idea of sharpening, I got a garbage #4 at Home Depot. My expectations of a poor tool were too high and I had no clue how to improve its chances, all the while wasting precious stock. I'd spend enough time with somebody with more experience to see if you catch the fever. I don't think it will take long either. I'd say within minutes you'll know. And if you like the hand planing thing after that, you won't feel bad about throwing $350 at a very good plane and a way to keep it sharp.

All the best,

Bobby

Steve Branam

11-29-2012, 6:19 AM

If you're looking for a good workhorse right after glue-up that can take a few glue globs and need to take off more than just a few fine shavings, I always recommend something like an old Stanley #5. I got a couple at Nashua for $25, and a couple off ebay for up to $45. Save the big money for finer planes. Sharpen the iron with a camber for faster, heavier removal. There's plenty of information here on doing that. That would be the hand-tool equivalent of a belt-sander.

It also wouldn't hurt to have a second one of these with the iron sharpened straight across (with the corners rounded off to avoid plane tracks) for the finer work after using the cambered one. Thus for under $100 you could have a good pair of coarse and fine starter planes that will get you a long way on the task you need to do as well as learning how to use and evaluate them. Greasing the slope as it were. As you learn to appreciate the job they can do and start finding their limits, you won't think it's so outrageous to pay 2 or 3 hundred for a plane!

And if you get a chance to spend a couple hours with someone who can get you started on the right foot, that's priceless, worth many many hours of trial and error on your own. The humblest plane is capable of good work in knowledgeable hands, and the finest plane can do terrible work in untrained hands. Imagine putting that belt-sander in the hands of someone who's never used one and asking them to smooth down your panel.

Bill Rhodus

11-29-2012, 7:22 AM

Jim, I have 2 of the 12-137 Stanley planes you cite and like them. However, they are not for someone just beginning to use hand planes. These planes require a fair amount of cleanup/tuning to get them ready to use properly. You should seriously consider the Veritas BUJ; it will be ready to go out of the box and will teach you how a plane should perform. It would also help if you knew someone that could show you how to properly sharpen the iron. Most beginners I know equate the sharpening to tasks they have performed in the past like sharpening their knives but it is more important for this endeavor. Not difficult but important.

Jim Riseborough

11-29-2012, 7:38 AM

wow, lots of support. I would take Steve up on his offer, just have to find the time...yea, I know how busy can you be right.

It is overwhelming about the tools...i have the mindset to buy the best, so im 95% ready to pull the trigger on the vertias bevel up jointer plane. I will then be able to try it out, and then get some help and pointers from someone like Steve.

Thanks

Jim Riseborough

11-29-2012, 9:51 AM

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=62

This is the one I a getting, made in USA, over Canada.

Chris Griggs

11-29-2012, 10:00 AM

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=62

This is the one I a getting, made in USA, over Canada.

Either one is a fantastic choice. Good job! You will be very happy with your first plane. Now just make sure you have some way to get it and keep it sharp.

Jim Riseborough

11-29-2012, 10:13 AM

what do recommend for sharpening? tehy have a kit that i could get with it

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=1-SK

Chris Griggs

11-29-2012, 10:35 AM

what do recommend for sharpening? tehy have a kit that i could get with it

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=1-SK

Careful asking that question here! Now your thread is sure to go on and on for many confusing pages. That Norton 1k/8k is perfectly suitable, and LNs sharpenign "kit" as well as their you tube videos are a great way to have sharpening success very quickly. There are better options out there then the Norton and we could easily get into yet another big long sharpening discussion here but I doubt you will find it lacking in any way. Just make sure you do some research into the best way to keep it flat as waterstone need to be flattened regularly - there are TONS on threads here about methods for flattening waterstones. I have a strong preference for using a diamond stones to keep my waterstones flat but that will run you some more money up front.

steven c newman

11-29-2012, 10:43 AM

Scarysharp for one, buy a Worksharp for another. The TORMEK is a bit on the pricy side. Mine? A beltsander clamped upside down in a vise246644 a honing guide, a couple oil stones, and some sandpaper. 246645246646and polish the backs. PM me and we could set up an afternoon of "plane fun".