Need to get a grip!

[Biff Johnson]

Hope you seasoned turners have some advice for me.

For some reason, I find myself gripping the tools tighter and tighter. It is a totally unconscious act and not because of tool jumping, catching or anything. The only thing I can think of is I do have chronic tennis elbow and perhaps it is a symptom of that or maybe just because I am a beginner turner although I've been doing it long enough to feel comfortable with the tools.

Any thoughts?

[Scott Hackler]

I think it's the latter. I was teaching a turner how to hollow an end grain HF and even though he had been turning for a few years, I thought he was going to leave permanent finger prints in the handle of my hollower! It was part fear of a catch and part being quite uncomfortable with this new (to him) turning method. He told me at our next meeting that he hadn't tried it at home yet, which confirmed to me that he was not very comfortable with hollowing yet.

When I started I did EVERYTHING wrong. I taught myself how to turn using youtube videos and too much trial and error. It probably took me a year before I stopped grabbing the tool handles like I was hanging off it while dangling off a bridge!

Your unconcious grip should loosen up as you become more confortable with the cuts and tool presentation.

[Biff Johnson]

I should say that it seems to happen the longer my turning session is. I start out just fine and I will have changed tools, etc. then eventually my elbow is tired and I notice I've got a death grip on the handle!

[Scott Hackler]

One thing to remember is that you are using a combination of muscles that you aren't used to. I also have to ask, how sharp are your tools? My wrestling match with the wood I mounted on the lathe stopped once I learned how to sharpen my tools! Now I prefer a super razor sharp edge and hone a micro bevel on the cutting edge between trips to the grinder. For me, the edge off my white 120 grit wheel isn't sharp enough. 6 seconds with my diamond hone and I am good to go!

[Jamie Donaldson]

So Biff, the solution is to occasionally remind yourself to "lighten up!" And Scott may have part of the solution with sharp tools.

[Biff Johnson]

So Biff, the solution is to occasionally remind yourself to "lighten up!" And Scott may have part of the solution with sharp tools.

Ha, that sounds like my wife's words! I am pretty confident my tools are sharp since I think I have finally come to terms with my Tormek. At least if the cuts on my hands are any indications!

Thanks for the advice guys.

[Jim Burr]

Scott and Jamie have some good ideas! To add a bit...practice!! I was working on a bowl set last week and I find myself barely touching the handle. At the same time, I only look at the tool on the work at the start of the cut, the rest of the time I'm looking at the top of the work...much better to judge the angle and depth of cut at other than the site of attack.

[Reed Gray]

From a movie about Cerrano DeBergerac (or however you spell it, swordsman), "Hold it as you would a bird. Too tight and you kill it. Too loose and it flies away." If you aren't hanging way out off the tool rest, you really need little grip. Another point is the tighter you hold it, the more bounce you will get. Also, the bigger and deeper the tool marks are. Getting used to turning and cutting will help you relax.

Another point from some skew master (Not Allen Lacer), "the bevel should rub the wood, but the wood should not know it."

robo hippy

[Steve Schlumpf]

One other thing (IMO) is to remember that you turn by moving your whole body - not just your arms. If you use just your arms - you will get bounce and probably get tired of hanging onto the gouge. Get a comfortable position, lock your arm to the side of your body for good tool control and then shift your weight as you cut. Takes a little practice but makes one heck of a difference in the cut and helps minimize the amount of fatigue at the end of the day.

[Harry Robinette]

I've been seeing allot of guys wearing one of those arm bands just below the elbow, they say it helps with elbow pain. Don't know but my help.

[Nathan Hawkes]

Biff, I had a very traumatic hand injury a few years ago with a tablesaw, and had to re-approach turning completely. I hadn't really noticed before my accident, but I seemed to be gripping tools much as you describe. After my accident, I can no longer fully bend my index finger of my right hand, which keeps me from really "gripping" a tool. I had to put new handles on all my tools, much longer, and for the most part much larger diameter than the skinny junk that comes with most turning tools. In an ironic twist, I am a far better turner now than I think I might ever have been if I hadn't nearly severed two fingers. I can tell you that now, I sharpen WAY more often. I don't use death-grips in my turning--I allow the wood to be cut by the tool. But for me, the added mass and length helps make that possible. If I find myself feeling like I need that tight of a grip, I'm doing something wrong. The analogy to holding a bird in the hand is PERFECT!



PS: I have had tendonitis due to a month or so of working 6-8 hours a day with a chainsaw doing tree work while I was searching for a nursing job. The compression bands do work, but you have to keep them so tight that they nearly cut off the circulation in your arm. There are bands that have a hard ball inside to put pressure on the tendons in your forearm-elbow joint. These work better, in my experience.

[Reed Gray]

Steve makes another excellent point on tool control, starting with a solid foundation. Feet about a shoulder width apart, and move with your whole body. If you have any martial arts experience, this is always taught. I had some, then tool up Thai Chi about 5 or so years back. I already knew all the body movements from turning. I didn't really understand what I was doing till I started that class though. Many other health benefits from Thai Chi also, but that is another story.

robo hippy

[Jamie Donaldson]

Those tendonitis compression bands are an aid after injury, but will do little to avoid possible injury. I've had 2 such surgeries for the first clinically diagnosed case of "camera elbow" due to cranking my Rolleiflexes for many hours a day. The best therapy was icing after heavy use, and several medications weren't of much use either.

[Steve Kennedy]

I find if I'm gripping too hard sometimes I just need to take a break. The fatigue makes you think you need to grip tighter when actually your hanging on because your worn out.
Take a break, step back and admire your work. Sometimes this really makes a difference.

[Richard Hutchings]

I never thought lathe tools needed to be that sharp. I'll try honing next time I turn. I'm always reminding myself to loosen my grip but I only turn at Christmas and I have to relearn every year.


One thing to remember is that you are using a combination of muscles that you aren't used to. I also have to ask, how sharp are your tools? My wrestling match with the wood I mounted on the lathe stopped once I learned how to sharpen my tools! Now I prefer a super razor sharp edge and hone a micro bevel on the cutting edge between trips to the grinder. For me, the edge off my white 120 grit wheel isn't sharp enough. 6 seconds with my diamond hone and I am good to go!

[Jamie Donaldson]

There's the problem Richard! You need more time devoted to turning all year around! You have a lack of "muscle and memory!"

[Biff Johnson]

Those tendonitis compression bands are an aid after injury, but will do little to avoid possible injury. I've had 2 such surgeries for the first clinically diagnosed case of "camera elbow" due to cranking my Rolleiflexes for many hours a day. The best therapy was icing after heavy use, and several medications weren't of much use either.

I feel your pain. Literally. In fact, my surgeon dislikes the bands with the little pad on them, he said it puts pressure directly on the tendon. I've had surgery, shots, etc and the only thing that has really helped is acupuncture.

Steve, thanks for the suggestions on body movement in your post. I tried that this afternoon and you were spot on. I was standing in a fixed position and when I started moving my hips, etc I could feel my grip loosening. Heck, I may have to try dancing again!

[Eric Gourieux]

In addition to the above theories and suggestions, I'll offer this as a physician and fellow tennis elbow sufferer: whether conscious or unconscious, you may be compensating for your elbow problems (and possibly a relative weakness of the muscles of your forearm) by using your muscles and body in a way that you would not otherwise. This could result in improper technique and the subsequent "white knuckling" the tool. I find that I am most comfortable with my rubber cushioned handles or with a glove that feels "grippy" on the handle. I know I'm stating the obvious, but if you feel like the handle could slip around in your hand, you'll grip tighter than you need.

[Biff Johnson]

In addition to the above theories and suggestions, I'll offer this as a physician and fellow tennis elbow sufferer: whether conscious or unconscious, you may be compensating for your elbow problems (and possibly a relative weakness of the muscles of your forearm) by using your muscles and body in a way that you would not otherwise. This could result in improper technique and the subsequent "white knuckling" the tool. I find that I am most comfortable with my rubber cushioned handles or with a glove that feels "grippy" on the handle. I know I'm stating the obvious, but if you feel like the handle could slip around in your hand, you'll grip tighter than you need.

Thanks for the tip Eric! I have cushioned sleeves on many of my hand tools but I didn't know they made cushy turning tools! Is that something you add on the handles or do they come that way? I will try wearing a grippy glove on that hand tomorrow and see what it does.

[Nathan Hawkes]

Biff, I hadn't thought about it when I made my first response, but after my tendonitis incident I put 3M coban tape on a couple of my handles to give them a grippier surface, so that I could wear leather gloves in the cold shop without them sliding around on the surface. I also have used the thick mouse-pad-like soft neoprene open-cell foam rubber on a couple tools that I thought were too skinny for me. Another turner gave me the neoprene, and I don't know where to find it, but the Coban tape can be bought online or at any pharmacy. It isn't cheap. The neoprene would be my first choice if I knew where to purchase it.

[Thom Sturgill]

Lots of good advise Biff. I would like to add to a couple of comments about comfortable stance. If the lathe is a little to high (or I guess too low, but I'm a shorty) it will cause discomfort which can lead to that same tight grip after a while even if you are otherwise comfortable in what you are doing. If the turning has a high 'pucker factor' nothing will help other than reminding yourself to loosen up. David Ellsworth talks extensively about stance, tool size and handle length and is worth checking out.

[Eric Gourieux]

Thanks for the tip Eric! I have cushioned sleeves on many of my hand tools but I didn't know they made cushy turning tools! Is that something you add on the handles or do they come that way? I will try wearing a grippy glove on that hand tomorrow and see what it does.


Biff, I have a Sorby (I think - I'm not home to check) handle that is cushioned.

[David E Keller]

FWIW, tennis elbow (or lateral elbow tendonopathy) is an overuse problem. One of the muscles that extends the wrist(extensor carpi radialis brevis or ECRB for those who care) begins to degenerate with overuse. Several recent randomized trials show no difference between injections, therapy, and neglect at one year follow up. There are numerous surgical treatment options which all have approximately 30% failure rates... That's a really poor success rate! The counter force elbow straps described above are intended to shield the proximal portion of the ECRB, but clinical success rates are poor. Stiff wrist braces actually have higher success rates as they inhibit the movement that causes the problem(ie. wrist extension), but they're even more valuable as an educational tool... Anything you have trouble doing with a wrist brace on is a potential irritant. Stretching and ice massage can both be helpful. By far, the most effective treatment is to stop doing the things that are irritating the tendon. For those who use a computer mouse constantly, there are ergonomic mice available which can be helpful. Lifting things with your palms up rather than palms down is helpful. Nicotine in any form is a risk factor for degenerative tendon problems all over the body including the elbow. The key to eliminating tennis elbow is to figure out which activities are responsible for your symptoms and eliminate the activities or change the way you do them.

The information above is only my opinion and should not be taken as a substitute for an actual medical evaluation... Blah, blah, legal disclaimer.

[Eric Gourieux]

David,
It's funny that you posted on this one. Well, it's not really funny that you posted, but as I was driving the hour drive back to Asheville (where I'm attending a meeting) after visiting with Sparky, I recalled this post about lateral epicondylitis. I wondered if you were going to add your expertise. Thanks for the (unofficial) expert input.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I will give you one more advice other than having the lathe at a height so you can stand comfortably,

and that is to get or at least give it a try.

A BIG handle on your tool, .......... that is thicker than the ones you have, thinner handles tend to have you grip them more tightly, and not so with a thicker handle.

Just try this right now just for fun, give a tight grip, bet you have a close held hand, now open your hand and try to grip tight, just doesn't go that well, and that's why a bigger handle helps to hold it with a more relaxed hold, it works for most anyone using hand tools :)

[Rich Aldrich]

I find the same issue with grip and sharp tools. If the tool is getting dull, the grip increases to force the tool to cut. Now, the instant I think the tool is getting dull, I stop and sharpen it. No need to prove tool is dull.

[John C Lawson]

Fatigue was also mentioned. I rest 15 minutes of every hour spent in the shop. And I really stop, not just do something different in the shop. I take off the safety gear, go in the house, talk to my wife, have a drink, etc, etc, etc. I can go many more hours, get less tired, and get better results.