Cabinet saw choice.

[John Borger]

I have just sold my 30 year old Delta table saw and I am thinking of replacing it with a Grizzly G1023RL. Riving knife, dust collection and price are what brought me to this point. Good choice or bad?

[Montgomery Scott]

If you are looking at the lower end table saws, then you've made a good choice.

[Paul McGaha]

Welcome to the creek John,

I agree with Montgomery. If cost is the priority then Grizzly would be the place to go. If you need more than 1 tool Grizzly especially looks good.

Personally, I have a Unisaw and it's a good saw.

I don't think I've ever seen a negative comment from the owner of a Powermatic PM-2000.

You might also consider a Sawstop. From everything I've read they are fine saws not counting the extra safety feature.

I think all these saws would serve you well.

Good luck with your decision.

PHM

[Joseph Tarantino]

IMHO. that, or the grizzly 0691, are both very good choices. the 0691 is a modern day clone of the older unisaw, right down to the trunion design. when wood magazine last tested cabinet saws, the griz units were the top value winners. in the higher price range (+$2500), the delta unisaw and the sawstop PCS were the winners. also, steel city tool works is having a sale through year end:

http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/pdf/USA2012fall_lowres.pdf

the 35965 and 35975 are on sale for $1300 and $1400, respectively, and they carry a ive year guaranty. they can be purchased through home depot online and HD will match the sale price. and buying through HD includes deferred billing and free home delivery.

[Brett Robson]

Second on the Steel City. I have the 35965GR and love it. It's a great saw and great value for the money.

[Michael W. Clark]

I think it is a good choice. I have a 1023, right tilt, 5hp 3ph and I have been very pleased with it. Easy to set up, holds adjustments, DC works well, etc. Mine does not have the riving knife so I can't comment on that aspect.

I would buy it again unless I was going to spend the money for a Sawstop and their technology.

Mike

[Cary Falk]

I replaced a 40 year old Unisaw with a G1023RL and couldn't be happier.

[David Helm]

I have a 1023RLX with riving knife. Saw was easy to set up and has performed very well.

[Myk Rian]

Also a Steel City owner, for the last 7 years.
Nice saw, and warranty.
They were designed by Delta engineers that jumped ship to Orion.

[Guy Belleman]

The G1023 is a nice saw, so is the G0691. I have had both, and a unisaw, both the Grizzly saws are equal the others in all but the most minute aspects. Not sure I agree with these saws being low end, I leave that to the contractor saws, as I see most cabinet saws being "high end."

[John Borger]

Thank you all. I hadn't ever considerd Steel City - looks to good to be true but I'm sure leaning that way. Built in mobile base, 110 v, free delivery and approx $100 less than Grizzly. That adds up to nearly $400 counting the $100 it would cost to run another 220v line in the shop.

[Jason Dreyer]

Incredibly pleased with my G1023RL.

[scott spencer]

The G1023RL is $1294 to your door, which is the best deal on a new 3hp industrial cabinet saw that I'm aware of.

[Matt Meiser]

If I had $1500 to spend on a TS I'd either buy from Grizzly, find low mileage US-made Unisaw based on the fact that parts are rarely needed and plentiful in the used market, or save until I had another $1500 and buy a Sawstop not only for the obvious reason but because its a really nicely made saw.

I just don't trust someone like Steel City or the new Delta are going to last despite the fact they have some nice stuff.

[Jeff Miller]

If you are looking at the lower end table saws, then you've made a good choice.


I don't think they are "LOWER END" I own a Grizzly GO690...........................I would say it's rather HIGH END:)



JEFF:D

[Clark Harbaugh]

I have the 5hp version of the 1023 and couldn't be happier. My next door neighborhood bought a 1.5hp popular name brand the same time I bought mine (4 years ago). The Griz had a flatter and much smoother table top.

[Jay Rasmussen]

John,
I have found over many wood working tool purchases across many brands, you get what you pay for. Do your homework if you really want a good saw. If not save as much cash as you can.
Jay

[Montgomery Scott]

I don't think they are "LOWER END" I own a Grizzly GO690...........................I would say it's rather HIGH END:)

JEFF:D

Martin, Altendorf and Felder are high end. Grizzly is strictly low end equipment, not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Robert Chapman]

I urge you to look very carefully at the SawStop. In addition to its very important safety feature it is a really well made and finished table saw. I have had three table saws over my woodworking career starting with a Craftsman contractor, then a Steel City cabinet saw and now my SawStop Professional cabinet saw with the Industrial mobile base. If the Craftsman was the Ford of my saws and the Steel City the Buick then the Sawstop is the Corvette. I know it costs about 3 grand but you can spend that in an instant in the Emergency room. Just my two cents.

[scott spencer]

Martin, Altendorf and Felder are high end. Grizzly is strictly low end equipment, not that there's anything wrong with that.

The $125 saws from Tradesman, Rockwell, and B&D are low end....it's hard to buy a cheaper or more poorly made saw. I can't argue that Martin, Altendorf, and Felder are high end, but I sure wouldn't label a G1023RL or G0690 as low end....just a down a notch or two from them.

PS: My ER copay is $100, so it'd take 15 to 20 trips to the ER to pay off the difference between a G1023RL and a SS PCS if you figure it by the financial savings.....insurance happens.

[Matt Meiser]

How good is your pay if you miss several weeks of work for the recovery? My nephew lost a finger this summer helping someone change an engine. Something slipped, his hand was in the wrong place, and he lost the tip of a finger. A few days later he had surgery to remove more bone so they could close the end of the remaining part. He was off work for over a month. Even with short term disability insurance that could be a major cost.

Related, if you've got insurance where you don't have to pay anything beyond a $100 co-pay for the ER...you are one lucky guy. Many of us consider ourselves lucky to be able to get insurance where the DEDUCTIBLE is the difference between a Grizzly saw and a Sawstop. Then after deductible there's the co-insurance. I work for a small company but a customer and I were just comparing insurance today and his isn't much better working for a VERY well know chemical/pharmaceutical company.

[johnny means]

The $125 saws from Tradesman, Rockwell, and B&D are low end....it's hard to buy a cheaper or more poorly made saw. I can't argue that Martin, Altendorf, and Felder are high end, but I sure wouldn't label a G1023RL or G0690 as low end....just a down a notch or two from them.

PS: My ER copay is $100, so it'd take 15 to 20 trips to the ER to pay off the difference between a G1023RL and a SS PCS if you figure it by the financial savings.....insurance happens.

I think you forgot the other part of your deductible, the pound of flesh.

[Brian Jarnell]

I wouldn't entertain a saw without sliding table like this, http://www.jacks.co.nz/page/ascent_saw_sa250st.html Similar cost about a $1000 here, must be less there.

[Larry Browning]

I have just sold my 30 year old Delta table saw and I am thinking of replacing it with a Grizzly G1023RL. Riving knife, dust collection and price are what brought me to this point. Good choice or bad?

John,
If there is one thing that gets SMC members going, it is the question of which table saw should you buy. There are probably more posts on this subject than any other. Yet, we never get tired of giving our opinion on the subject. Here is my prediction. You will be more confused and undecided about which saw to get AFTER you have read all our recommendations.

Oh, and BTW: Welcome to the Creek!

[Jim O'Dell]

Larry, the only threads that were more confusing, at least for me, were the "Which Bandsaw should I get?" threads. Maybe that is because I had no background with bandsaws when I decided I "wanted" one. If it hadn't been on sale, I would have bought something different than what I got, but I got lucky. But yeah, you're always going to get a wide assortment of answers, even though they are usually the same ones as the other threads had. Jim.

[Mark Ashmeade]

Hmm, the "which dust collector/ductwork/filter/blastgate" ones are pretty confusing too. So it seems we can't even agree which is the most confusing line of threads: tablesaws, bandsaws or dust collection.

FWIW, having owned a cast iron contractor saw, a granite topped hybrid, a Powermatic 66, a Powermatic 72 and a Sawstop PCS, I liked the 72 and the SS the best. The 72 was a beefier saw, and the PCS the nicest to use and safest. Really and truthfully, budget is often seen as the most important factor, but as this is a capital equipment purchase, and should last well over a decade, it shouldn't be a primary decision factor. I had to go through a contractor saw, a granite hybrid, a 66, a 72 and a SS to learn that though :)

[Brent Ring]

Have a Grizzly slider and love it :)

[Peter Kelly]

The $125 saws from Tradesman, Rockwell, and B&D are low end....it's hard to buy a cheaper or more poorly made saw.
Harbor Freight is up to the challenge!
http://www.harborfreight.com/garage-shop/stationary-table-saw/4-inch-mighty-mite-table-saw-93211.html

Even the guy demoing it in the video bogs it down with something pretty small looking.

[Larry Prem]

The entire 1023 range is a great value. My performs flawlessly.
If you don't like it, these saws keep their value very well. They do well on CL in my area.

[Jim O'Dell]

By the way, for the money, I think my Grizzly G0691 was the best saw I could afford. Are there better saws? Yes, most definitely. In fact I would love to have a Mini Max slider. But I paid 1250.00 shipped for my 691, and it has done everything I've asked it to do so far. Jim.

[John Borger]

Larry, How true I had it down to 2 saws and now I'm back to sq 1. My old Delta with Vega fence and high end blades did everything I needed except good dust collection and having a riving blade. In 65 years my only near misses have been kickbacks. The beat goes on - I sold my Delta to soon - I'm tablesawless for the first time in 65 years. Scary!

[ken carroll]

I currently own a Powermatic 66 and an Oliver 270 but prior to them I owned a G1023 for many years and can say taht it was every bit as capable as my current saws.
I would highly recommend a Grizzly cabinet saw and do not consider tham "low end" at all.

On the other hand I think if you need the safety crutch offered by a $3000+ Chinese made Sawstop then you would be better off playing dominos and avoiding the "risk" of woodworking altogether.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Come on guys.......keep it civil please....

[Mark Ashmeade]

Ken C - I can't let that go.

For years, Oliver and Powermatic machines have been made in Asia. Oliver is Asian owned. Powermatic and Jet are Swiss owned. Delta unisaws, the small RAS and the line borer are made in the USA. BUT, Delta Power Equipment Corporation is owned by Chang Type Industrial of Taiwan.

Now matter how you dice it, if you are investing in new woodworking machinery, some of your dollars will end up overseas, most likely in Asia, but possibly Switzerland.

Given that you have to export some money, if you want a new machine, then I'd rather have a Chinese-made saw that has safety features than a Chinese-made saw that doesn't. Or an American-built, Chinese owned saw that doesn't.

When I bought a new saw earlier this year, it was down to the Unisaw and a Sawstop. Pretty much the same price, both American designed. The SS won because it had the safety features and the Unisaw didn't. They are comparable saws in pretty much every other respect. Whether one was built in the USA and the profit went to Taiwan, or the other was built in Taiwan and the profit went to the USA really wasn't a consideration.

It's nothing to do with a "crutch", and all to do with "what's the best I can do here".

[Peter Kelly]

"Chinese-made" and "has safety features". There's two terms that aren't often in the same sentence.

[Mark Ashmeade]

"Chinese-designed", perhaps so, but the SawStop is American designed.

[ken carroll]

Mark,

My Oliver is US made and US designed. Manufactured in 1946. It has a true riving knife, and shorty "Euro" style incremental fence. Overhead blade guard too. Quite forward thinking as far as safety features go.
No it doesn't have the very clever flesh detecting apparatus, but my point is if woodworking is so scary that you need to rely on that device in order to enjoy the hobby safely, then maybe a less dangerous hobby is appropriate for the potential sawstop purchaser.
I don't think the electronics in the Chinese Sawstop make it worth $2K more than a Chinese made Grizzly, which is of equal build quality.

My old PM66 was made in Tennesee, so it too is neither Chinese designed or made. Your point about new PM stuff is well taken, and new Oliver stuff is Oliver in name only - it has nothing to do with the real Oliver Machinery company.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Folks,

I doubt if the original poster meant for this thread to become a SawStop debate.

Let's get back on topic.

[Mark Ashmeade]

Ken C - Woodworking is not scary, but there are sharp, powerful tools involved. When all else is equal, safer is better. As I explained before, there are NO American-only choices for new machines intended for the consumer level in any case, so "Chinese" is really not a useful adjective.

Now what makes this relevant to the OP is that he sold an older machine to buy a newer one, and the safety feature of the riving knife is a primary motivator for him. Why wouldn't it be?

[Carl Beckett]

I own a grizzly 1023 LT. Great saw

I expect someday I will swap it in for a sawstop.

I do have a thumb that clicks, due to a table saw accident. But after an ER visit, I DO still have that thumb. And no, a sawstop would not have prevented that particular accident.

Definitely I would purchase a saw with a riving knife. At a min.

(ok, I don't know if that's enough on topic or not..... What was the question again??)

Ok, went back and read the original post. The answer is: good choice.

[ken carroll]

Why not indeed? A riving knife is a good safety feature curing the far more likely danger of kickback than the far less likely danger of running your fingers through the blade.

My point is: he doesn't need to buy a shiny new Chinese tablesaw to get a riving knife as my 1946 Oliver proves.

[Carl Beckett]

Ken,

Perhaps offer some alternatives that you would rcommend. Your 1946 Oliver is one option. Not everyone is into old iron. But it's certainly your preference and there are many here that would agree.

So perhaps you have recommendations on new saws, that you feel would be a good consideration? (or if you just feel a new saw is a bad investment then ok to say that)

My opinion; woodwoking IS scary. The surgeon that put the pins in my thumb stated he sold all his equipment because had just seen too many major accidents. Have personally known several others that have gotten injured while woodworking. In cluding my brother who pulled a Japanese dovetail saw right through his thumb joint ( so it's not always about power tools). Not to mention all the chisel slips and scars.

[Mark Ashmeade]

Buying used is unlikely to provide you with a riving knife though. For every Oliver out there, there's a hundred or more Powermatics and Deltas that don't have one. He just sold one of those.

So he's probably going to need to buy a new saw to get one. China (either of them) and/or Switzerland it is then.

[Ron Bott]

I don't think the electronics in the Chinese Sawstop make it worth $2K more than a Chinese made Grizzly, which is of equal build quality.


A Grizzly is of equal build quality as a Sawstop? You have either never seen the Sawstop up close in person or you have no clue about build quality. If you don't think the extra $$ for the blade brake is worth it, that's fine, it's your choice. But to say a Grizzly saw is of comparable build quality is laughable.

[John Keeton]

Guys, we have let this one go long enough. John has all the options he would ever need to consider and should have plenty to think about. Further discussion in this thread will serve no legitimate purpose. Thanks.