LN tool cabinet

[Josh Rudolph]

Anyone seen the cabinet in person. Just wondering what it is about the cabinet that commands such a price tag?

it definitely looks nice full of those tools that i would love to own!

[Jim Ritter]

I've seen it at the shop. It is very impressive. I thought the price seemed high, but when I thought about all the design time to fit all those tools in and all the little bits that have to be just right it didn't seem too high considering the builder wants to make some money and so does LN.
Jim

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

This one? (http://www.lie-nielsen.com/?pg=138) I'd imagine being a one of a kind by a known cabinet maker also adds into the price, as well.

[george wilson]

I wonder how many of those they have sold? A bit rich for me.

[Josh Rudolph]

This one? (http://www.lie-nielsen.com/?pg=138) I'd imagine being a one of a kind by a known cabinet maker also adds into the price, as well.

Yep that is the one.

[Tony Wilkins]

It's really about the price of one of his chest of drawers.

[John Coloccia]

I'm clearly in the wrong business.

[Ryan Baker]

I don't care WHO made it. 10K for a wooden box is just stupid. I guess that's one way to avoid having to build many of them.

[Damon Stathatos]

That custom Becksvoort cabinet together with the collection of Nielsen tools, in my opinion, is beyond exceptional. The epitome of a transformed old world craftsmanship making a rare present-day appearance. Worth the money? Depends upon one's perspective I would say. To some a $10k box full of stuff that a Dewalt planer will do just as fine and to others, a set of appropriately housed Stradivari to create beautiful music with. A McRib sandwich and a Palms steak dinner both do the same thing but for some reason the Palms keeps on selling it's steak, as does Ferrari it's cars. As always, to each his own, but it'd be great to know that this set's fate was one as 'users' instead of 'sitters' and even more interesting to know or see some of the beautiful music made with them.

[Chris Vandiver]

I don't care WHO made it. 10K for a wooden box is just stupid. I guess that's one way to avoid having to build many of them.

Well, you could always build one(as nicely done as Becksvoort's) yourself and then fill it with Lie Nielsen tools and then see how much you think it would be worth. It has a certain collectors value as well. Who knows what it will be worth down the road apiece.

[Don Dorn]

Certainly, it's a beautiful case with the option of having it filled with beautiful tools. That said, in other industries, there is always a new way to sell a new "lure" and with woodworkers, it's tools. I'm certainly guilty for a period of concentrating on gathering the tools necessary for the craft, but once done, I think people would be better served practicing their skills with them as opposed to always being involved in the chase of collecting more.

It seems that many threads are "tool" based in concept and at some point, they need to be put to work as the priority as opposed to constantly figuring a new way to attain more. Obviously, just my opinion but I have found liberation in my attempt to increase skill as opposed to filling the cabinet or tool chest with more, regardless of the cost.

[Jim Matthews]

This may not be aimed at tool users.

I'm just sayin'...
I attended a tuneup class run by Mr. L-N his own self.

He's a little sheepish about the bromance inspired by his personage.
The attention to the coursework was cursory.

The line to get unused LN planes engraved ran around the shop.

When I asked if he understood, he just smiled and said "It makes them happy, where's the harm in that?"

I opined that he's an entertainer, which earned partial agreement.
"I do make decent tools, too you know."

That earned complete agreement from me.


Men collect stuff. Why not a neat box full of useful things?

[Paul McGaha]

More about Mr. Becksvoort:

http://www.chbecksvoort.com/

[Zach Dillinger]

I saw the one in the Mt. Horeb Duluth Trading Company flagship store. Apparently, it was a gift from Mr. Lie-Nielsen to the owner of Duluth, according to the store manager. He insisted that I come around the counter and look at it. Beautiful work. I didn't bring a camera, but it is behind the counter at the main checkout. Beautiful curly cherry, the tools looked brand new, despite the assertion that the owner is a woodworker. $16,000 was the asking price. They also had a very, very nice LN bench for sale. I don't recall the price, as I wasn't terribly interested, but they had t-shirts piled on it. Just seemed wrong.

[Chris Griggs]

Becksvoort makes some beautiful pieces. I love looking at his site for inspiration. I'm not at all surprised by the price of that tool cabinet. I agree that it is likely more for collectors than users. I'll never spend that much money on something like that, but I certainly don't mind if someone else does. They will be supporting an independent craftsmen and a company that most of us are quite fond of. I would love to see that ( and anything Becksvoort has made) in person.

[Steve Friedman]

I would get one, but it doesn't have space for my L-N #8.

Steve

[Phil Thien]

"Lock chisels, right and left hand set, to allow lock strike mortises to be chopped out in narrow drawer openings and other areas with limited access. Available from Lie-Nielsen Toolworks (http://www.lie-nielsen.com/)."

I'm having difficulty seeing any difference between the two lock chisels pictured. I guess one is supposed to be right, the other left-hand. What am I missing?

[Source: http://www.chbecksvoort.com/forwoodworkers.html]

[Jim Ritter]

The bevels on the broad flat chisel faces are opposite. They are beveled on one side only. Thus a right and a left.

[Tom Scott]

Funny, I just saw this listed on the L-N site last night...not sure how long it's been there. It's a beautiful cabinet by a modern master filled with great tools. I did find myself studying how the tools were placed, and especially liked how he handled the #66, spokeshaves and card scrapers since they don't seem to take up as much space as what I was thinking. I'm still not sure how the #66 is hung, though.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I don't care WHO made it. 10K for a wooden box is just stupid. I guess that's one way to avoid having to build many of them.

well duh! that is why it is only $9,500..... :D

It is ironic to me, that it costs more than the tools! :eek:

[Jeff Hamilton Jr.]

That custom Becksvoort cabinet together with the collection of Nielsen tools, in my opinion, is beyond exceptional. The epitome of a transformed old world craftsmanship making a rare present-day appearance. Worth the money? Depends upon one's perspective I would say. To some a $10k box full of stuff that a Dewalt planer will do just as fine and to others, a set of appropriately housed Stradivari to create beautiful music with. A McRib sandwich and a Palms steak dinner both do the same thing but for some reason the Palms keeps on selling it's steak, as does Ferrari it's cars. As always, to each his own, but it'd be great to know that this set's fate was one as 'users' instead of 'sitters' and even more interesting to know or see some of the beautiful music made with them.

... well put ...

[John RStegall]

Sam Maloof rocking chairs come to mind when considering collector's items. I do not have one of those either. That said, it is beautiful.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I can imagine a person paying that kind of money for a custom piece from a respected craftsperson. I can't imagine paying it, but that's a personal call. I can't imagine every being at a point in my life where I would feel comfortable charging that much for something. But I rarely find fault with a craftsperson who can build quality goods charging whatever they think their investment in time is worth, let alone materials.

The thing I find funny is that I imagine there are a lot of woodworkers and tinkerers of all stripes who see something they want, can't afford, and find a way to build it. I was like that with guitars - I couldn't afford the guitars I wanted, but I taught myself to make the guitar I wanted. (Of course, once you factor in the cost of tools, I was behind - except now I have that guitar *and* the tools, but that becomes a whole 'nother discussion.)

But to me, it seems like what they've done is specifically design a high-priced product that seems aimed exactly at the sorts of people who are more apt to want to do it themselves. I think that's the part that's losing me; it seems like sort of an odd market target for something in this price range.

[Klaus Kretschmar]

A woodworker and tool user probably doesn't consider to purchase this chest. He rather will copy it and that's ok.

But there aren't just tool users out there. Collectors may have a complete different view on this chest. And there are other folks, that appreciate the worth of such a well done chest made by a well known maker and loaded up with some of the world's finest tools in a different way, too. It's no rocket sience to predict, that only a very small number of these chests will be sold. So it is absolutely sure, that these few chests will grow in worth quick once they can't be bought any longer. Wait a few years and the investment will turn out right. No option, if there is a limited budget of course. But not the worst option for someone who can afford it and who has the time to wait by knowing that he himself probably won't get the reward but his inheritors. Nobody needs to have a $40,000 Patek Philippe watch, but what a lucky guy that inherits one.

Klaus

[John Stankus]

I know I can't afford to purchase this case(and fillings), but it would be nice if they published plans. It looks like it would be a nice project to build.

John

[David Peterson]

Klaus is right about the collectors out there. I once spoke with the plane maker Wayne Anderson about his clientele. I asked him what percentage of his planes were going to woodworkers as opposed to collectors. He thought it was about 50/50. Many of his repeat customers have no intention of ever using the pieces that they commission from him. They are collectors and just appreciate beautifully made tools. They obviously have the bank account to afford it but, hey, power to them. There are plenty of folks out there who would find this LN collection attractive and they probably aren't the ones to bang out a user box for themselves. I don't even think a return on investment is that important to these buyers. This could easily be just a display piece for them.
(That said, I think the organization of the tool box is a little messy. It might be beautifully made but I'm not crazy about its design).

[Sean Richards]

That custom Becksvoort cabinet together with the collection of Nielsen tools, in my opinion, is beyond exceptional. The epitome of a transformed old world craftsmanship making a rare present-day appearance ...

Really? It looks like an OK cabinet but beyond exceptional is rather a stretch IMHO ...

[William Adams]

(That said, I think the organization of the tool box is a little messy. It might be beautifully made but I'm not crazy about its design).

Agreed.

Obviously it was inspired by the Studley chest:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/media/w00088_01.jpg

but it seems to me the functionality and efficiency of the design was subordinated to displaying each tool.

I just wish I was having more success w/ arranging my own tools.

[Steve Friedman]

I know I can't afford to purchase this case(and fillings), but it would be nice if they published plans. It looks like it would be a nice project to build.

John

FWW Tools & Shops Article by Mr. Becksvoort in 2001 has the details of a larger version of that cabinet. The L-N version is smaller, but many similar design features.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/FWNPDFfree/011153084.pdf

Steve

[Phil Thien]

The bevels on the broad flat chisel faces are opposite. They are beveled on one side only. Thus a right and a left.

Ah, that makes sense. I was only paying attention to the other side.

[Phil Thien]

I think LN should donate one of these to SMC for a FreeStuff drawing.

[Bill Fleming]

It would also be nice if both LN and LV provide tool size info. that included LxWxH for planning such tool cases, usually only find LxW. That said this is an amazing case with a great collection of tools - I too hope they are "users."

Cheers - Bill

[Dave Beauchesne]

Klaus makes a great point - once they are gone, they are gone and the price will go up. Period.

I was at the Vancouver WW show about 10 years ago when Rob Cosman was still the Canadian LN rep.

Rob's assistant told my buddy that just a few minutes earlier, a lady came in and ordered ' one of everything ' for her WW husband - IIRC he told my friend the tab was around $ 10K - that is the type of buyer that will snap up the tool chest and contents among others. There are people whose pockets are verrrry deep, good for them, and the money we are talking is chump change.

So, a few bucks over $13K gets you a great starter kit, and a CB cherry tool cabinet; you can bet your boots that the cabinet will be worth some decent dollars in the future, as well as the tools of course, but, there will probably be less than 25 of the cabinets made, with CB provenance - a winner IMHO.

Would I buy the set ? Sure, if I had the $$, but I don't and can make my own - one more project for down the road.

Dave B

[David Weaver]

It's an item for collectors, at least that is my opinion.

I couldn't justify it for any reason, but it's from the same place that sells a piece of non-spec granite on a wooden stand for $1300 as a sharpening station.

There are a lot of tools out there from defunct specialty makers that don't bring big dollars, woodworking or whatever. The same is true for straight razors, a lot of the tool value is supported by the list price of current new tools (and in straight razors, by new razors).

Regardless of the circumstances, I think it would be a mistake to assume becksvoort gets $8000 for the cabinet, it may have been marked up significantly by LN. Even at $5000, though, it wouldn't even come onto my radar as a remotely possible purchase.

Anyone know how many of these have sold? They may very well have sold several of them, and all that would tell us is that all of us squinting when we see the price just aren't the target market, despite the fact that we do have a lot of the LN tools (at least I do, a fair # of them). I don't have them as an investment, though. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that if LN decides to hang it up in a decade or two, that the tool value will drop, especially if another manufacturer of something similar pops up. The true high-value items out there in the world of collectors are not the same things we'd buy as users.

[Andrew Hughes]

I think it's kinda strange someone would buy all those tools and not need to use them.The real beauty will appear after many years of service and wear.
I cannot afford his cabinet but I do know how to use the tools.So we have something money cannot buy.

[Carl Beckett]

I think LN should donate one of these to SMC for a FreeStuff drawing.

+1

And while we are at it, lee valley should follow suit. I won't even mind if Rob just puts his in a Grocery bag

:D

[eric mah]

It seems like a present that a Jay Leno or Brad Pitt would get if he made an off handed remark that he would like to get into woodworking.

Looking at the economics of the box, I think the article from FWW back in the thread mentioned Chris spent about 160 hours designing and building his personal chest. Given that the design work was done for the prototype, would it be fair to say maybe 40 to 80 hours of labor for this chest? With a typical markup he is probably getting $5k for the chest. Figuring 1k for material- really on the high side, his labor is worth $4k. Based on the 80 hour guess, he is making about $50 an hour. Not bad for a craftsman, but nothing too extraordinary, either.

[Bob Jones]

I don't see the problem. I would not sell my tool cabinet for $9,500. I'm not wealthy, but I'm not hungry either and I put too much time to sell it for anything less than a new van for the wife :)

[William Adams]

I put too much time to sell it for anything less than a new van for the wife

There's a certain irony to that, given that in some histories of the Studley tool chest it was traded for a car at one point in time.

[Carl Beckett]

I don't see the problem. I would not sell my tool cabinet for $9,500. I'm not wealthy, but I'm not hungry either and I put too much time to sell it for anything less than a new van for the wife :)

Bob - when I read this thread I thought of your recent cabinet build. Very nice and comparable quality!

[Chris Griggs]

Bob - when I read this thread I thought of your recent cabinet build. Very nice and comparable quality!

Bob's cabinet was a masterpiece. The best part was all the thought and creativity he put into the design. Coming up with a unique design is easy; coming up with a unique design that looks as good as his does is a real challenge. I can't stop thinking about building one now even though I have several other things I want to do.

[Peter Pedisich]

It is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

If I won the Powerball, I'd make two phone calls, the first to Lie-Nielsen, and the second to my wife:eek:

[Damon Stathatos]

...If I won the Powerball, I'd make two phone calls, the first to Lie-Nielsen, and the second to my wife:eek:

Been a while since I've had a good laugh. Thanks for this one.

[george wilson]

That tool cabinet with tools is exactly the type of thing that someone who has money,but does not really ever use the tools would buy. I have probably privately made more tools for that type than I ever have for users.

[Bob Jones]

[QUOTE=Peter Pedisich;2011613]It is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

My dad used to tell me that a lot. I didn't get it until I became an adult. :)

[Damon Stathatos]

That tool cabinet with tools is exactly the type of thing that someone who has money,but does not really ever use the tools would buy. I have probably privately made more tools for that type than I ever have for users.

A revealing statement and very apropos to the essence of this thread.

Those at the top of their craft end up attracting an additional market that their original market doesn't understand. I'll go out on a limb here (as one nowhere near the top of his craft) and surmise that the maker is still only truly motivated to cater to his original market on the highest level that he can, but welcomes anyone who cherishes his wares and for whatever reason.

There must be some satisfaction knowing that people are drawn to your product who have no intention of putting it to its intended use. Frustrating for guys who want to use it but now can't afford it and at the same time, rewarding to the non user on a different level.

I'm willing to bet that most of us here have at one time or another paid a premium price for something we know is really no better than a lesser version, but we do so because we cherish what we perceive as perfection.

[Greg Portland]

How much of the cabinet do you think is "handcrafted"? Is there a CNC cranking out pre-cut parts that Christian then fits & assembles?

[Greg Portland]

A revealing statement and very apropos to the essence of this thread.

Those at the top of their craft end up attracting an additional market that their original market doesn't understand. I'll go out on a limb here (as one nowhere near the top of his craft) and surmise that the maker is still only truly motivated to cater to his original market on the highest level that he can, but welcomes anyone who cherishes his wares and for whatever reason.

Agreed. However, I wonder how LN is hoping to position this in the market (when compared to high cost options from Bridge City, Hotley, etc.)?

[george wilson]

Damon,if it takes me many,many hours to hand build a one-off infill plane,or another time consuming tool or instrument,I am forced to sell it at a price that lets me get at least a reasonable wage from it. That frequently means a collector who has money.

How many actual users buy Holtey planes? Not THIS user.:) Why is it that you never see a Bridge City tool put up for sale that has actually been used??? I sold a pistol I made for $7,000.00,which I'll soon post here. But,it took me over 7 months to build it. Fortunately,I had a day job!! Otherwise,I couldn't pay the rent on that.

That's just the reality of it. I've never had the money (or the inclination) to go into mass production,and enjoyed my work at Williamsburg too much to leave it. Besides,to enter mass production would have meant for me the end of being creative,tying myself down to standard models,when what I really like to do is design things. And,as much controversy as there is about collectors tying up the good tools,I'd never have been able to see most of those tools had it not been for displays at shows,the books they write,etc.. Plus,they really do preserve things for posterity,and I like my tools and instruments to live on after I'm gone. so,there are 2 sides to the coin.

[Augusto Orosco]

Damon,if it takes me many,many hours to hand build a one-off infill plane,or another time consuming tool or instrument,I am forced to sell it at a price that lets me get at least a reasonable wage from it. That frequently means a collector who has money.

How many actual users buy Holtey planes? Not THIS user.:) Why is it that you never see a Bridge City tool put up for sale that has actually been used??? I sold a pistol I made for $7,000.00,which I'll soon post here. But,it took me over 7 months to build it. Fortunately,I had a day job!! Otherwise,I couldn't pay the rent on that.

That's just the reality of it. I've never had the money (or the inclination) to go into mass production,and enjoyed my work at Williamsburg too much to leave it. Besides,to enter mass production would have meant for me the end of being creative,tying myself down to standard models,when what I really like to do is design things. And,as much controversy as there is about collectors tying up the good tools,I'd never have been able to see most of those tools had it not been for displays at shows,the books they write,etc.. Plus,they really do preserve things for posterity,and I like my tools and instruments to live on after I'm gone. so,there are 2 sides to the coin.

I would also add that making such custom tools promotes innovations in design and engineering that in the future could potentially be adopted as new and improved standards, benefiting us all users. I am happy there are people with deep pockets who can commission a piece from the George Wilsons of the world. Many of those exquisite pieces George has made wouldn't be there for us to appreciate without them.

[Joe Leigh]

Agreed. However, I wonder how LN is hoping to position this in the market (when compared to high cost options from Bridge City, Hotley, etc.)?

Let's get the conversation back to LN and C.H. Becksvoort.....

I don't get the impression that LN is looking to position this in the market, more like a one off or a very limited production. Just my guess of course as I have no insider info.
Also, I don't agree with this assumption that whoever purchases this chest of tools has no intention of using them, and I can't understand the negative connotation that this asumption carries with it. So what if someone purchases it and puts it behind a glass case as an investment?

[george wilson]

I gave no negative assumptions about the cabinet. Maybe someone else did. Like I've said,most of my private work has gone to collectors,so I have no problem with them. They preserve my tools for the future.

Obviously this cabinet is a sort of 1 or 2 off deal,intended,I believe, to be a promotional item for LN.