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Scott T Smith
11-24-2012, 7:03 PM
I'm not sure that the following could be construed as "General" woodworking, but it does involve some heavy duty "power tools" and it certainly involves both "wood" and "work"!

As many of my fellow SMC members are aware, I have a sawmill and kiln drying operation on my farm. Recently, my farm received an order for some extraordinarily long (and large) timbers that will be the basis for timberframe structure to be used as a restaurant and bar outside of Washington, DC. The structure is being built from red oak, and the focal point of the timberframe will be a pair of rough sawn oak beams measuring 12" x 16" x 42'.

A hundred years ago there were probably thirty or forty large sawmills operating in the west and northwestern United States that routinely milled beams such as this (as well as much larger). However, due to limited demand today as well as limited availability of large (and long) logs, few commercial mills still exist that can manufacture something like this. Fortunately, the sawmill that I own is designed for large logs and is very versatile. Coupled with enough track, a crane and other heavy equipment we're able to produce the beams here on the farm, and I thought that some of my fellow SMC members may find the process of interest.

Probably the most difficult portion of the project was sourcing a pair of logs that were at least 24" on the small end, 43' long and clear. Fortunately, some logs were sourced nearby, and although we are waiting for engineering to be completed on some of the smaller beams, we recently started the milling process on the largest ones. There is a lot of log handling involved, as each log has to be turned multiple times in order to properly mill it, and the bunks have to be readjusted with each turning.

After sourcing the logs and having them delivered to a local concentration yard, the work started by reviewing a gorgeous pair of red oak logs and subsequently having them loaded on my trailer. They are each 43' long, with small end diameters of 24" and 26" respectively, and they weigh approximately 6 tons apiece.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=246313&d=1353800233



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=246311&d=1353800221




http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=246312&d=1353800225




After unloading them at the farm, we used a crane to load them into the sawmill bunks and then laid out the beam profile on the ends of the logs.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=246314&d=1353800271



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=246315&d=1353800308



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=246310&d=1353800214




Milling then commenced on the first face:


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=246307&d=1353800107


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=246305&d=1353800036



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=246306&d=1353800074



First face is complete (and inspected by Shea, our "log dog").


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=246309&d=1353800183





After the first face was milled, we used a crane to remove the log back out of the bunks, then used a backhoe to align it for the second face, readjusted the bunks and then set it back in and started milling face 2:


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=246317&d=1353800379




These next photos are probably my favorite ones of the entire group, as they provide a good perspective of the sizes and proportions of the beams being milled.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=246308&d=1353800145


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=246303&d=1353799958


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=246304&d=1353799997





After completing the milling on each face, that face was soaked with a 15% TimBor solution to help alleviate any pests in the finished product (since they sure won't be going into one of my kilns!):


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=246316&d=1353800343




The next step is to mill the first two faces on the second log in a similar manner. After that we will adjust the bunks to be perfectly flat relative to the sawmill and mill the second two faces on each log.

Working with long, large logs is very different than typical 8' - 12' logs, not only because of the mass involved but also because every step must be well thought through in advance and executed without any mistakes (so nobody gets hurt and also I sure don't want to have to "eat" one of these expensive logs due to a mistake!). Working through any tension present in the logs is also a challenge; additional steps are required to mill oversize, with multiple log turns and milling some of the faces more than once to get down to a final dimension that provides for equalization of any tension present in the logs that is revealed during the milling process.

The log weights are significant (over 12,000 lbs each), and extra caution has to be used when handling and moving them around with the crane. I have a 6' Logrite cant hook, and these guys just laughed at it! All handling requires heavy equipment for every step, and precision handling to set them up just so. Because the beams are oak and will be left rough sawn, we also have to prevent contact with steel forks, chokers, etc to the freshly sawn surfaces.

I'll post some additional photo's next week as time allows.

Scott

Mark W Pugh
11-24-2012, 7:39 PM
Keep the pix coming. This is outstanding! Nice dog!

Dan Bowman
11-24-2012, 7:43 PM
Cool project Scott! Maybe we should have a NCWW party at the restaurant when it's finished.

Ted Calver
11-24-2012, 7:46 PM
Pretty impressive Scott. Looking forward to some more pics. What happens to them after they're cut? Are you storing them as is or are they going to a kiln, or just being used green?

Herr Dalbergia
11-24-2012, 8:00 PM
NICE NICE NICE....exactly my taste.....Thank you!!!

Dave Ray
11-24-2012, 8:29 PM
Really interesting, great pix. Looking for more. Thank you

Dick Mahany
11-24-2012, 8:34 PM
Now that is Crazy Cool !!! What fun that must be......and to earn a living besides. Thanks for a fun post.

Gordon Eyre
11-24-2012, 8:40 PM
Amazing to see the work that goes into this whole process. Quite impressive.

scott vroom
11-24-2012, 9:31 PM
Scott, thanks for taking the time to post the pics....interesting and educational!

Ryan Mooney
11-24-2012, 9:43 PM
Thanks for posting, very interesting.

Thats a heck of a saw you have, very impressive.

jared herbert
11-24-2012, 10:44 PM
Just curious but how much does a log that size cost? I am sure they are not common and as you mentioned look to be mostly clear. Jared

Sam Murdoch
11-24-2012, 10:59 PM
Fun to see and, oh yeah, learn!

Joe Bradshaw
11-24-2012, 11:16 PM
Wow Scott, I would have paid money to watch the whole process.

Paul Saffold
11-24-2012, 11:19 PM
WOW. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

larry O'loane
11-24-2012, 11:33 PM
Nice Job! I've done a good bit a milling myself and can really appreciate the work that went into producing your beams.

Ronald Blue
11-24-2012, 11:39 PM
Very interesting! Always nice to see photos of a unique and challenging job like this. Thanks for posting and I look forward to seeing more of the photos when you get them on.

Curt Harms
11-25-2012, 8:22 AM
Scott wins the "cool toys" contest going away! :D Thanks for the thread and I'm looking forward to part 2.

Dan Hintz
11-25-2012, 8:38 AM
Very cool, Scott... can't wait for part II.

Jeff Bartley
11-25-2012, 9:36 AM
Thanks for sharing this project Scott! What an incredible experience to work with timbers of that size! I spent a few years timber-framing and the timbers always came from a mill in Ohio.....they had some sort of four-sided planer to dimension the logs. But I never saw a timber over 26'-28' long.
Looking forward to part 2 and if you can let us know how to follow the project after it leaves your mill! I'd love to see a timber-frame with 43' timbers!!
Awesome!!!
Jeff
ps-----now I know who I'll call if I ever get the chance to build that dream timber-frame house......

Phil Thien
11-25-2012, 10:08 AM
That is impressive. And an amazing beam. Let's hope it doesn't twist, because it is taking whatever is attached to it along for the ride if it does!

mreza Salav
11-25-2012, 12:21 PM
As others have said, very interesting thread and photos. Thanks for sharing.

Ole Anderson
11-25-2012, 2:58 PM
Very cool! Tell us about your saw. Diameter, hp, effective cut depth, how you sharpen it, etc.

Warren Johnson
11-25-2012, 7:28 PM
Very interesting post. Looking forward to the next set of photos.

ray hampton
11-25-2012, 7:49 PM
this size of logs would be perfect for a saw pit to explain how it were done back when
how will the beams get installed ?

Joe A Faulkner
11-25-2012, 9:17 PM
When I was in college, my step Dad was the owner\operator of one of these babies. A day in the mill, rolling logs, and off loading lumber was a pretty good days work. Your set up looks much safer. He ran his off the PTO of an Oliver 88 row crop tractor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twPbrKblTKk

Do keep the pictures coming. Very interesting.

Scott T Smith
11-26-2012, 9:01 AM
All - thanks for your comments, encouragement and kind words. I'll post some additional pix later this week.

Let me see if I can address some of the specific questions asked...

Ole - I have a Peterson Winch Production Frame swing-blade mill. These are made in New Zealand and are designed to be both portable as well as mill extremely large diameter (60") logs. The blade is around 26" diameter, engine is 27hp, and I can mill a 10" deep, 20" wide beam w/o turning the log. Beyond that, I can mill up to a 60" x 60" beam by turning the log, or yield 20" wide boards at any level. I retip my own blades (silver-soldered carbide tips), and use both on-mill as well as off-mill sharpening systems (I have one that is similar to those used for sharpening 4' diameter circle sawmill blades on-mill). For these beams, I staggered the tips so as to accentuate the circular saw marks at the customer request. I'm set up to mill a log up to 58' long, although thus far 44' is the longest that I've milled. I'm almost finished building a 30hp dedicated slabber with a 7' bar for the mill as well.

Ted - these beams will be installed green. The only way to kiln dry large oak beams w/o damaging them is by using an RF Vacuum kiln (of which very few exist, and I'm now aware of any available in the U.S. that could handle beams this long), and oak beams this thick would require many weeks in the kiln.

Dan Bowman: GREAT IDEA!!!

Jared, logs like this cost around 2K apiece when/if you can find them.

Joe Bradshaw: Wish that I'd known that...... <grin>

Larry: You've been milling up in Alaska? What kind of mill (and if it's a chainsaw mill you have my respect (and sympathy!) sir!)

Mark, you clearly have a discerning eye regarding great dogs! :D

Phil: I think that we should be ok regarding twist, as the raw logs were fairly straight grained and I've gone to a lot of effort to make sure that the pith is centered in the beams.

Scott

Erik Christensen
11-26-2012, 1:29 PM
"I would have paid money to watch the whole process" - Oh great another calamity about to be inflicted on our society - TOOL PORN :D - where do I get tickets?

Ole Anderson
11-26-2012, 5:21 PM
Scott, can you explain how you mill a 60" wide log when it seems that the 27" blade can only cut 10" deep? Are you truly milling the log or sawing it, or can you do either? And how do you mill the bottom of a 10" x 20" beam without turning the log? As starters I am guessing that the blade is flush on the bottom with no protruding arbor nut, but then you would be limited to removing just the thickness of the blade. I'm stumped.

Ok forget these questions, I went to their website and now I think I understand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjDJupxp3wo&feature=player_embedded

Scott T Smith
12-09-2012, 1:26 PM
Thank you to everybody so far who commented and has enjoyed my post about milling some 43’ timbers. In this and the next post I’ll document the rest of the project.

My initial post showed the milling process up to the point where two faces had been milled on a log. The milling process changes somewhat for the second two faces, due to the fact that taper in the log no longer has to be factored into consideration and also the process to turn the logs for subsequent cuts is different.

When we milled the first two faces, we picked up the log and swung it over onto a couple of bunks, and used a backhoe bucket to turn it.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=247462&d=1355074136



For faces 3 and 4, we have to turn the log in steps, because the sharp edge resists turning and will slide on the bunk if we use the backhoe. So instead, we offset the log on some blocks to facilitate turning.



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=247467&d=1355074159



We then set it back up in the bunks on the sawmill, but this time we have adjusted all bunks to be equidistant from the sawmill blade, as opposed to the different depths that there were originally set to allow for log taper. This will allow our cuts on opposing faces to be parallel to the opposite face

Here we are set up and ready to mill the third face:



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=247468&d=1355074176



And milling now commences.



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=247464&d=1355074145



You can see in the photo one pix back that the butt end of the log is significantly larger in diameter than the opposite end. I have taken advantage of this extra material to mill some special corner guards with my sawmill. Swing-blade mills are unique in that they allow the operator to cut a 90 degree corner boards, similar to a piece of angle iron. I needed to make something that we could attach to the sides of the beams to prevent the cable chokers from the crane from gouging into the corners of the beam, and some 90 degree corner boards would be perfect for this application. We call them “sling guards”.

Because a swing blade sawmill allows the operator to swing the blade from horizontal to vertical, initial cuts going down the log are typically made with the blade in the horizontal position, and the return cuts are made with the blade in the vertical position. A single pass down and back usually produces a finished board. In the next photo I am making some of the corner boards, and I have milled out the inner portion of the corner, and am about to make my second pass in the vertical position.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=247477&d=1355075558



Here are the resulting corner boards after being trimmed to length;



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=247469&d=1355074179



And the corner boards installed on the log and rigged for picking:



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=247470&d=1355074182



The sawmill blade has replaceable carbide tips that are silver soldered in place. I retip my own blades, which not only saves me time and money but also allows me to adjust the tip placement for varied effects. Normally I center the tips, to minimize the milling pattern and reduce friction while milling. However, the customer for these beams wanted to accentuate the milling marks in order to add to the visual impact of the beams. After experimenting with several different positions for the tips, I settled on one that produces this pattern:



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=247465&d=1355074155



After completing the third face, we picked the log/beam back up, moved it out of the mill and wedged it over to the fourth face, and then set it back in the mill in preparation for milling the fourth face:



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=247463&d=1355074138



More to come in the next post.

Scott

Mike Cozad
12-09-2012, 1:33 PM
Amazing process. Thanks for sharing your work! I would never had known how something like this is done without your posting here.

Scott T Smith
12-09-2012, 1:33 PM
Many logs, especially oak, have a tension present in the log that is released during the milling process. This tension causes the log and/or boards to move (I have actually seen boards lift themselves off of the log while being milled due to tension). Because the scarcity of large logs suitable for this project (as well as the expense), I opted for a conservative approach and milled two of the log faces twice, instead of just once. The initial milling resulted in a beam that was around 1” thicker and wider than needed. We then subsequently turned the beam back to the initial faces for the final cuts. Because 90% of the outer wood had already been removed, the bulk of the tension had been released in the logs/ beams and we could now safely mill to the final dimensions. The tension was clearly evident, as the slim boards now being removed from the beam faces tended to vary slightly in thickness. We also accounted for the location of the pith in the log when milling, so as to achieve the best balance between milling needs and center pith (to minimize future beam movement due to unequal stresses on the different beam faces).

This photo shows the progression of milling the final inch out of the last face:



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=247476&d=1355074528



The beams are now complete! Here is a photo of the finished narrow and wide faces on the beams:



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=247471&d=1355074468



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=247475&d=1355074512



When complete, the differences in width and thickness from end to end was around 1/8” – 3/16”; which is a reasonable tolerance for something this size.

The last step was to crane the finished beams out of the sawmill and onto one of my trailers for subsequent transportation up to a drying barn.



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=247472&d=1355074480



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=247474&d=1355074497




They will stay in the barn out of the direct sunlight until we are ready to deliver them to the jobsite in Washington, DC.

I hope that everybody has enjoyed this post; it was certainly a fun and interesting project!

Scott

mreza Salav
12-09-2012, 2:05 PM
everything here is in massive scale, very impressive.
Going back to the first few photos, pushing that blade thorough the lug certainly needs a lot of guts; one slip of foot could spell disaster.
The guy operating it must be very confident and skilled and comfortable doing this.

Scott T Smith
12-09-2012, 2:17 PM
The guy operating it must be very confident and skilled and comfortable doing this.


Mreza, that's me in most of the milling photos; it's not as dangerous as the photo's make it appear. The sawmill has a removable guard on the left side of the carriage that I've removed for "double cutting". Normally with the guard in place you can't see the blade.

Also, the pix make the blade appear to be closer to the operator than it really it.

Operating this sawmill is similar to operating a tablesaw or flying a small aircraft; you have to have your mind in the game at all times or bad things can happen. However, if one develops safe habits the risks are manageable.

Phil Thien
12-09-2012, 3:15 PM
When complete, the differences in width and thickness from end to end was around 1/8” – 3/16”; which is a reasonable tolerance for something this size.


A hand plane should make quick work of that.

Amazing post and pictures, thanks for sharing.

Bobby O'Neal
12-09-2012, 3:46 PM
Awesome. Thanks for this, Scott.

Ted Calver
12-09-2012, 7:24 PM
Beautiful timbers and a great job milling. Thanks for letting us watch. Are you coating them with something to slow down drying or just letting them do their thing?

Dan Hintz
12-10-2012, 8:02 AM
Will you be joining the log on its trip, Scott? Let us know when you're up this way and maybe some of us can stop by to say 'hi'.

Jay Jolliffe
12-10-2012, 8:17 AM
Nice work Scott....Doing a 42' beam and getting it that close from end to end is amazing. I don't know if anyone has gone to the Peterson saw site but it's pretty cool.....

Jeff Bartley
12-10-2012, 8:38 AM
Scott,
I'll second Dans' question about the logs trip to DC........it would be really cool to see these logs and their jobsite. But I know it's not always a good idea to have an audience! Thanks again for sharing!

Scott T Smith
12-10-2012, 8:54 AM
Beautiful timbers and a great job milling. Thanks for letting us watch. Are you coating them with something to slow down drying or just letting them do their thing?

The installer will coat them with a commercial timberframe finish.

On my own stuff, I usually go with the traditional timber coating of 50% BLO and 50% turpentine; however I've recently discovered that substituting d-limonene for the turpentine will result in a more pleasant aroma from the finished beams.

Scott T Smith
12-10-2012, 8:58 AM
Will you be joining the log on its trip, Scott? Let us know when you're up this way and maybe some of us can stop by to say 'hi'.


Dan, I'm planning to deliver the two large beams myself, and use common carriers to deliver the remaining 80K lbs of the order. Most likely the delivery will be in early January, but it's contingent upon whenever their engineers complete the review of the smaller beams on the project. Considering the traffic around DC, and the special nature of these beams, most likely I'll drive up during the night and deliver the beams first thing in the morning.

It would be great to meet you and some fellow SMC members while I'm in your neighborhood! Perhaps we could meet for breakfast or something...

Scott

Scott T Smith
12-10-2012, 8:59 AM
this size of logs would be perfect for a saw pit to explain how it were done back when
how will the beams get installed ?

Ray, I'm not sure if I replied to you before or not, but I think that they are planning to use metal plate connectors instead of traditional timberframe joinery. I have not seen the drawings for the finished assembly yet, so I don't know for sure.

Harry Hagan
12-10-2012, 10:32 AM
For those unfamiliar with this type of sawmill [Winch Production Frame (WPF)], here’s a link to Peterson’s video demonstrating the WPF.

http://petersonsawmills.com/products/wpf/

Luther Oswalt
12-10-2012, 10:45 AM
Scott - Nice Job! I have always felt the best choice of these type mills was Peterson. I hope to see your Beams some day!
Leo

John Shuk
12-10-2012, 11:16 AM
Very Cool. Thanks for taking the time to share it.

Scott T Smith
12-13-2012, 6:46 PM
Beautiful timbers and a great job milling. Thanks for letting us watch. Are you coating them with something to slow down drying or just letting them do their thing?

Ted, it looks like the original plan has chanbged, as the customer and I are now discussing options for a coating. They have used some Tung Oil on some sample boards, and liked the end result. I've recommend that they consider using Land Ark Original finish for the initial coating, and will be sending them a sample board early next week. Land Ark Original is a tung oil based finish that is optimized for use on green timbers. Presuming that they approve it, I'll be coating the beams in another week or so.

Jim Becker
12-13-2012, 8:41 PM
Fascinating, Scott! Thanks for sharing that!

David Nelson1
12-14-2012, 6:34 AM
Will you be joining the log on its trip, Scott? Let us know when you're up this way and maybe some of us can stop by to say 'hi'.

I'm up for that as well!

Scott T Smith
12-15-2012, 5:36 PM
I'm up for that as well!

Looks like it will be February; as the customer is working through some issues on the building permit. I'll be sure to let y'all know in advance before I head up.

Dan Hintz
12-15-2012, 7:09 PM
Looks like it will be February; as the customer is working through some issues on the building permit. I'll be sure to let y'all know in advance before I head up.
Hope you pick the right time... February is prime Snowmageddon time in these parts ;)

Jim Becker
12-15-2012, 9:41 PM
Hope you pick the right time... February is prime Snowmageddon time in these parts
Yup...that's very true, Dan.

Danny Hamsley
12-18-2012, 7:52 AM
Scott is a real Pro!

Jim Matthews
12-18-2012, 9:34 AM
Back in the 1980's I picked edges at a sawmill near Flathead Lake in Montana.

The noise, dust and slippery conditions were generated rendering much smaller logs, mostly Ponderosa pine.
The newbie operators that could not appreciate the unforgiving physics involved rarely lasted long.

The old timers were deliberate, methodical and mostly deaf.

It amazes me that a portable operation can now render much heavier materials on such a large scale.

Anyone that's actually cut down firewood from log lengths to stove knows what a challenge Scott has managed.

Kudos.

Robert Payne
12-18-2012, 6:31 PM
A great thread, Scott -- these guys should see you in action with that amazing sawmill. I consider myself very fortunate to have see you both in action. Hope to see you in the new year on one of my visits to my daughter's in Apex.

Jim German
12-19-2012, 12:24 PM
Wow, those were some awesome logs, and the beams you were able to get out them are amazing. I hope you can post some pictures of the finished restaurant too!

Scott T Smith
12-19-2012, 4:45 PM
A great thread, Scott -- these guys should see you in action with that amazing sawmill. I consider myself very fortunate to have see you both in action. Hope to see you in the new year on one of my visits to my daughter's in Apex.

Hi Rob, it's great to hear from you. By all means give me a call when you're headed this way; it would be great to see you again.

Scott

Scott T Smith
01-10-2013, 12:50 PM
SMC member Joe Cowan stopped by the farm today to pick up some QSRO, and while he was here he enquired about the long beams. The last time that he was here I had acquired the logs but not yet milled them. We took a moment to walk up the hill so he could look them over and also snap a pic.

Joe, it was great to see you again; thanks for stopping by!

Scott

250653

Jim O'Dell
01-10-2013, 11:08 PM
Amazing!!! Not sure why I only saw this tonight. Thanks for the "tutorial". It's not something I'll be trying.;) Jim.

Don Morris
01-11-2013, 1:37 AM
I live "outside DC". What is the name of the restaurant? I would certainly visit this restaurant. Thanks for posting the pics. Super interesting. I've been joint facing some 3" square and 4" square posts (cherry, purpleheart and poplar) that have been sitting on a friends bench for 20 yrs. The difference in technique to get to fresh heartwood is almost comical. Please try to include the dog. I have a shop cat.

Kevin Nathanson
01-11-2013, 2:04 AM
Wow, that's really something Scott! Happy New Year to you, sir.

My little poplar logs feel so inadequate now.

BTW... Speaking of my little poplar logs...

;-)

K

Michael Mayo
01-11-2013, 10:20 AM
That is truly awesome to see! Thank you so much for sharing this process with the rest of us unworthy individuals......:) I was showing my wife the pics and she is just in love with your farm and the amount of land you have. How many acres do you have down there in NC? We have been down that way to Kiawah SC and it really is very beautiful country down your way with still significant amounts of virgin untouched land available. Our property taxes here in CT. are $6,000 a year for a tiny 1/4 acre lot and that isn't much land with neighbors all around us. She was checking some listings in Vermont and she said the taxes were $1,100 a year for 60+ acres or something crazy like that. I would guess you don't have to pay much down there either plus with all of that land you don't have any worries about bugging the neighbors with all the noise. Please do keep the progress pics and story going.

Scott T Smith
01-11-2013, 12:36 PM
I live "outside DC". What is the name of the restaurant? I would certainly visit this restaurant.

The bar where the timbers will be used is going to be called "Open Road", and the restaurant will be the Treo. I would estimate that both will open in Q4 '13.

Scott T Smith
01-11-2013, 7:45 PM
Wow, that's really something Scott! Happy New Year to you, sir.

My little poplar logs feel so inadequate now.

BTW... Speaking of my little poplar logs...

;-)

K

<grin> How's the house project coming?

Speaking of your poplar logs... I'm booked this weekend, but how are your weekends looking the rest of the month?

Kevin Nathanson
01-11-2013, 9:40 PM
Hi Scott,

The house starts getting drywall on Tuesday, and is on schedule for completion in April. I now virtually live in the workshop trying to get stuff ready for it.

Every weekend looks good for us; just let me know.

K

Scott T Smith
02-22-2013, 6:39 PM
Looks like it will be February; as the customer is working through some issues on the building permit. I'll be sure to let y'all know in advance before I head up.


UPDATE: It looks like the customer has resolved both their building permit as well as consulting engineer issues, and we're gearing back up to complete the milling of the remainder of the project. The current delivery date is looking like sometime either during the last week of April or the first week of May (which should prove beneficial from a weather perspective). Hopefully we can have a SMC "get-together" while I'm making the delivery.

Philip Duffy
02-23-2013, 6:23 AM
Fantastic pixs and great project for us to see. Thanks and will look forward to more of the same. Philip

David Nelson1
02-23-2013, 7:09 AM
Hey Scott

When are you moving the timbers?



The bar where the timbers will be used is going to be called "Open Road", and the restaurant will be the Treo. I would estimate that both will open in Q4 '13.

Rick Moyer
02-23-2013, 8:15 AM
Hey Scott

When are you moving the timbers?


UPDATE: It looks like the customer has resolved both their building permit as well as consulting engineer issues, and we're gearing back up to complete the milling of the remainder of the project. The current delivery date is looking like sometime either during the last week of April or the first week of May (which should prove beneficial from a weather perspective). Hopefully we can have a SMC "get-together" while I'm making the delivery.

your answer

Dan Hintz
02-23-2013, 9:23 AM
Keep us updated, Scott, so we can plan appropriately :)

David Nelson1
04-28-2013, 6:51 PM
The bar where the timbers will be used is going to be called "Open Road", and the restaurant will be the Treo. I would estimate that both will open in Q4 '13.

Hi Scott,
Any news on your trip up north with the logs?

Scott T Smith
06-24-2013, 4:30 PM
Hi all. It's been a while since I've updated this thread, so I thought that I'd take a minute to bring things current.

As of early June, all of the 90,000 lbs of oak lumber that I milled have been delivered to the jobsite.

When I made the first delivery, I ended up driving up during the night in order to avoid traffic. When I arrived (at 6 am) and unloaded, I enquired with the Project Manager about having some SMC members meet me during one of the deliveries, and they asked that I wait until the facility was complete as the jobsite was very crowded and the construction schedule was intense. As you can imagine I was a little bit tired after being up for 24+ hours too, so it wasn't the best time to meet. Based upon the customer's request for 6 am deliveries, all of my subsequent deliveries were made at 6 am as well.

Here is a photo while we were unloading the first delivery from my truck and trailer. The long beams sticking past the end of the trailer are the 43 footers:

265041

They are working to complete the facility by August, and I will probably make a trip up to check it out once it is complete and open. What I'd like to do is see if any local SMC members are interested for a "meet and greet" at that time.

The facility itself is quite interesting. It is a combination Italian market, restaurant and bar, divided into three different areas of a larger building. My portion of the project was supplying a lot of the wood that was used in the bar area. It is located on the North side of Lee Highway / 29 / 237 about a block east of the intersection with Galloway in Falls Church. This is just west of I495. The restaraunt is called the Treo, and the Bar is called "Open Road".

In addition to the timberframe structure, we also provided the lumber for the top of the bar. Earlier this year I was able to source an incredible "old growth" cypress log. This particular log was harvested from a massive, ancient cypress tree that grew in the swamps of eastern North Carolina. The tree yielded quite a few logs, I was able to obtain one that came from a spot in the trunk that was 60' above ground. Three 16'6" and one 12'6" logs were harvested between the ground and my log. At 60' above ground the main trunk was still 35" in diameter!

We recently milled it, and the results were quite stunning. I had originally estimated the log to have been around 500 years old, after milling and counting the growth rings it turns out that it is close to 1000 years old.

Here are some photo's of the slabs obtained from the log. The first photo shows one of the 35" slabs:

265043

This next photo shows a close up of the grain. Under magnification, we counted 88 growth rings between the 2 and 3 inch marks on the tape!

265044

All in all this has been a really fun and unusual project. The customer has been great to work with, as has been the extraordinary logs and resulting lumber and timbers.

I look forward to meeting some of my fellow SMC members at this location in the near future.

Scott

Peter Aeschliman
06-24-2013, 7:28 PM
Wow, 1,000 years old! Really puts our lives in perspective, huh?

Thanks for sharing.

Brian Brightwell
06-25-2013, 8:08 PM
I cut this Burr Oak that grew in the bend of the river. I sold it to the stave mill. They said it was going over to Europe to a winery. The butt log was 36 inches. The logs were (4) 12 footers and two nines. I wish I had gotten better pictures. I got enough from this tree to pay for sawing my other logs. This tree was starting to die so I harvested it. It was all my antique Ford wanted. Gosh I wish it had been a white oak.

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy11/bebrightwell/Chainsaws/P1010025_zpse257c421.jpg (http://s773.photobucket.com/user/bebrightwell/media/Chainsaws/P1010025_zpse257c421.jpg.html)

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy11/bebrightwell/Chainsaws/P1010023_zps3d9e847b.jpg (http://s773.photobucket.com/user/bebrightwell/media/Chainsaws/P1010023_zps3d9e847b.jpg.html)

Brian Brightwell
06-26-2013, 6:32 PM
I came across this photo. It looks like a similar mill.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh309/williamkiff/th_PicoHangerandMilling003.jpg (http://s259.photobucket.com/user/williamkiff/media/PicoHangerandMilling003.jpg.html)

ray hampton
06-26-2013, 9:28 PM
I came across this photo. It looks like a similar mill.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh309/williamkiff/th_PicoHangerandMilling003.jpg (http://s259.photobucket.com/user/williamkiff/media/PicoHangerandMilling003.jpg.html)

I hope that this log did not need to be pull uphill, downhill pull would be hard enough

Jerry Olexa
06-27-2013, 4:55 PM
Thnx for sharing...Great shots!!

Jim Becker
06-29-2013, 8:41 PM
Wow...that cypress log is amazing!

Interestingly, this job site is just up the street from where Professor Dr. SWMBO grew up just on the other side of the beltway. Literally. I know exactly where you mean! I will be sure to put it on my list of places to visit when I'm hanging at "my office" just west of there in Fair Lakes from time to time. It sounds like it's going to be fantastic!

Calvin Williams
06-30-2013, 9:15 AM
Thanks for sharing!! That was really cool to see the process involved in milling such large timbers.

Scott T Smith
06-30-2013, 8:46 PM
Wow...that cypress log is amazing!

Interestingly, this job site is just up the street from where Professor Dr. SWMBO grew up just on the other side of the beltway. Literally. I know exactly where you mean! I will be sure to put it on my list of places to visit when I'm hanging at "my office" just west of there in Fair Lakes from time to time. It sounds like it's going to be fantastic!

It ought to be a very cool place. I'll update this post when I'm going to be in DC at a decent hour; hopefully we can have an SMC get-together at either the restaurant or bar.

David Nelson1
01-25-2014, 8:55 AM
looks as if the place (http://www.openroadmerrifield.com/menus/) is now open

Ruhi Arslan
01-25-2014, 11:02 AM
Could these be the "pair (http://www.openroadmerrifield.com/uploads/images/Gallery/Merrifield_06_20_BackLft.jpg)"?

Scott T Smith
01-25-2014, 2:08 PM
Ruhi, that's them! (along with the posts, joists and decking that we milled for the project).

David, it opened up last fall. Thus far I'm hearing good reports about the food.

Danny Hamsley
01-25-2014, 10:59 PM
Scott,

If I ate there, I would spend all my time looking at the wood and forget to order!

David Nelson1
01-25-2014, 11:08 PM
I'll be eating there soon menu looks a bit confining but well considered for bar food. I'll be @ Mike's American in Springfield tomorrow. Had I know it was open I would have chasnge venues............. just for decor LOL

David Nelson1
01-25-2014, 11:10 PM
Scott,
Recon the MNG got pushed off...... Certainly was looking forward to it




Ruhi, that's them! (along with the posts, joists and decking that we milled for the project).

David, it opened up last fall. Thus far I'm hearing good reports about the food.

David Nelson1
01-20-2015, 3:50 AM
Finally made it last night. Great place!

Chris Padilla
01-20-2015, 3:41 PM
Wow...never saw this thread until now. A fantastic journey for some fine wood!! Thanks for showing it all to us, Scott, and thanks, David, for the 'final' pics! :D

Kent A Bathurst
01-20-2015, 3:51 PM
Finally made it last night. Great place!

Very cool. Didja try the "I'm tight with the guy that suplied these timbers" free drink hustle? Just in case the rest of us stop by.........

David Nelson1
01-20-2015, 7:06 PM
Very cool. Didja try the "I'm tight with the guy that suplied these timbers" free drink hustle? Just in case the rest of us stop by.........

LOL No I didn't most of the folks only knew the wood came from NC because its on menu as fun facts. Most thought they where not real. Hollowed out or something.... I had to give em the look hahha

David Nelson1
01-20-2015, 7:11 PM
Pictures of the attached restaurant with a cigar lounge. Sorry the pictures suck, I don't really know how to use all the camera features on my tablet.

Lee Reep
01-20-2015, 7:24 PM
Wow Scott, I would have paid money to watch the whole process.

Yep, I would have sprung for tickets to the show, too. :D

Reinis Kanders
01-20-2015, 8:52 PM
I am surprised that they used those T plates instead of timber frame joints for joining columns to the long beam.

Sort of like this
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_lyb_jaLTcqA/S-a4cuSJcVI/AAAAAAAAARA/SSfegm4sYqg/s1600/mortise+and+tenon+joinery.jpg

Could be because of code, probably just a cost. Cool beams though.

Gene Takae
01-24-2015, 8:32 PM
Scott-very cool post. Thanks for sharing!!

Bruce Wrenn
01-25-2015, 10:03 PM
I'll update this post when I'm going to be in DC at a decent hourFrom my experience, there is no such thing as a "decent hour" in DC.

Scott T Smith
02-04-2015, 8:54 PM
Finally made it last night. Great place!

David, those are great pix! Thanks much for sharing.

A bit of trivia... when I was first awarded the project their plan was to only have two posts per the 43' beams. Their engineer sized the beams, and they cut me loose on obtaining the requisite logs (which took a while and was the source of a lot of hair pulling). After I had sourced the logs, they had a second engineer check the first engineers calculations, and they did not agree. A multi-month pissing contest arose between the two engineers, while I was sitting on these logs concerned about them starting to decay. Finally they agreed to move forward by putting in the middle post (which really upset the owner as he wanted a free span), and we started to mill. They were a bit consoled when I informed them that it would be all but impossible to source logs long enough, and straight enough to make a taller beam (such as a 20" beam that the second engineer was alluding to; I would have had to source a 30" small end diameter log, or greater!).

The reason for the metal plates (post and beam) instead of mortise and tenon (timberframe) on the post to beam connections was two fold. First, the local building codes had language for metal splice plates but not M&T, and second the construction crew that was selected for the job was familiar with post and beam construction but not experienced in making the joinery for a timberframe connection.

David Nelson1
02-05-2015, 9:18 AM
Your welcome Scott least I could do!

Glenn Clabo
07-21-2015, 6:35 AM
Moved as suggested.

george wilson
07-22-2015, 9:38 AM
Great work. But,I can't tell how your mill is cutting the logs. Where is the blade? What kind of blade? We always use a Wood Mizer around here. It is a bandsaw,of course.

A friend of mine has a sawmill that specializes in cutting beams for museum use. It is called "Museum Resources". He has 2 Wood Mizers. Quite a large business by now.

Scott T Smith
07-22-2015, 5:09 PM
Great work. But,I can't tell how your mill is cutting the logs. Where is the blade? What kind of blade? We always use a Wood Mizer around here. It is a bandsaw,of course.

A friend of mine has a sawmill that specializes in cutting beams for museum use. It is called "Museum Resources". He has 2 Wood Mizers. Quite a large business by now.

Hi George, thank you for the kind words. This type of sawmill is called a "swing blade" mill and they are very uncommon. Mine is made in New Zealand and they are primarily used for very large logs that are not practical to move or turn.

Here is a link to a video that will show you how it works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjDJu...layer_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjDJupxp3wo&feature=player_embedded)

The blade is a 26" circular blade that is flush mounted to a gearbox that pivots.

I'm familiar with the Woodmizers; they make a great mill. I have three sawmills; the Peterson WPF, a home-made dedicated slabber, and my bandmill is a Baker 3638D which is somewhat physically larger than a Woodmizer LT70.