Shop Tour # 7 B 24" Italian Planer

[lou sansone]

good evening fellow WW's

The will be that second to the last of my shop tour series. I hope that some of the information that I have provided has been informative and useful. The planer in the pictures is a Casadie brand ( Italian machine ).
For those interested you can find info here at this link

http://www.casadeimacchine.com/cgi/index1.html?fam=ST&lingua=us

The internal cutter head design seems to be very similar to the SCMI machines from the same 1980's vintage. Here are a few features and a warning about buying used equipement.

1. I bought this machine at auction ( not ebay ) and almost took a bath on it. It came out of a furniture factory from the south and it was completly wooped, I mean wooped.. I had to disassemble almost the entire machine and replace every bearing in it ( there are actually quite a few because the feed rollers are built similar to a swing arm on a motor cycle ) , all the sprockets and chains were trash, all the pullys were beat and belts were shreaded, the 12 hp main motor bearing were shot, chip breakers were broken, blades were missing, some of the wiring was screwed up, ect. The planer is all rebuilt now and it runs like a new machine, but it took a fair amount of work to get it that way.



Don't ever buy something from a southern furniture factory. BTW, even wooped we are talking a lot of $$. New machines are in the 20k range.


2. This planer has segmented chip breakers and infeed rollers which is a very nice feature. What that allows you to do is feed multiple boards at the same time even it they are slightly different thickness.

3. This machine actually has 5 motors. Obviously there is the 12 hp cutter head motor that is always running. There is also an upper feed roller motor that also runs when planing. There is a power table motor that raises and lowers the table. There is a lower feed roller motor that is always running ( this planer has powered bed rollers ). A finally there is a knife grinding motor that is used to sharpen the blades.

4. The important point with the seperate cutter head motor and feed roller motors are that you can pretty much keep a constant head velocity, no matter how difficult it is to feed the wood, because a seperate motor is handling that. The feed roller motor is coupled to the gear box with a real good quality reeves style variable speed pully arrangment.

5. This particular machine has a 4 post table movement system which IMHO seems like a pretty decent design for table movement.

6. It is a nice size machine, about 2400 lbs, that does not have alot of stuff to catch oneself on. The Italians are pretty good when it comes to design.

well enjoy
lou

[Jim Dunn]

What a beautiful shop and great looking equipment. When do you start to use it and make dust?? Can't have much voltage run through any of it yet, as the shop ain't even slightly dusty.

[Richard Wolf]

Lou, it's always fun to see your machines, thanks.

Richard

[Alan Turner]

Lou,
Nice little machine. What a ton of work you put into it. I don't think I would have the time or skill for that. Did you find that you could go with off the shelf bearings, or did you need OEM on them. I could imagine that the price would be quite different. I have avoided factory tools in my old iron search. There was a large planer on another forum, but the fellow had used it in a sawmill operation, and that sounded like a lot of miles to me so I passed. Still looking, though.

[Dev Emch]

Hey Lou...

That is quite a planer and its so new looking (style wise). Its hard to imagine that something this new looking has had such a rough life. But it is true when it comes to factory operations. The hourly staff is paid on what they can produce and preventative maintainence anit productive... at least for the guy on an 8 hour shift. So these machines are often trashed.

For those wondering where to sniff this stuff out at, look for schools and pattern shops. Also production shops making props for holly wood also work. But lumber yards and furniture factories are on the bottom of this list. Also look at government auctions such as gsa.com for government sleepers.

Certain machines often show up in school shops, (at least older shops which are getting few and far between). Here, you will find powermatic 221 and 225 planers. HUGE machines but nice. One of the most popular planers used in pattern shops is the oliver 299. Its a very heavy and dense 24 inch planer with a footprint that of many 20 inch planers. Damn nice machine! Then you get into lumber yards. Here you will find Newman, Newman Whitney and Buss planers. These are P-I-G-S!!! Extremely heavy machines with massive motors and features. I would say that they represent some of the finest US made planers ever made from an engineering perspective. For example, many of these heavies will sport micrometer adjustable bed feed rollers. Lighter machines such as the oliver often do not have this. Also, many furniture factories have these heavy models as well and Newman /Newman-Whitney is actually located in one of the carolinas. The down side to these heavies is that they are often trashed to the hilt and the dealers are always trying to rape you on selling these machines used. Plan on rebuilding one of these if you get one. Once rebuilt, YOU WILL BE TICKLED PINK at the performance.

The next step to look at are the euro machines. What Lou was complaining about is actually a blessing. True the feed rollers have this unsual suspension about them, but its a european design used in various formats by martin, hoffman, many itallians and some spanish companies. Its nice! For some reason, when the US companies began dropping like flys, the engineering slack was taken up by european companies. Today, the best made woodworking machines are comming out of countries like Germany and Italy. Martin and Hoffman are german and Casadie is itallian. You will also see machines like the Lori & Lori CNC oscillating chisel mortiser which is itallian. Its pure WOW and can blow perfectly square holes into wood like nothing!

So Lou, once again, this arn fanatic is wiping the druel off my computer keyboard and everything else. You have created quite a shop and my hat is off to you regarding the planer. Yes, it did have issues; however, part of the fun is rebuilding and refurbing these machines. My question to you is this. How does your wife get you to come back into the house? You should submit some photos to FWW for the end of year Shops & Tools edition. Your shop is more than worthy of entry in this category! Good Job!

[Joe Mioux]

Lou, your shop series tour is a lot of fun to read and see. thanks for the tour.
How old is this planer?

Joe

[lou sansone]

Lou, your shop series tour is a lot of fun to read and see. thanks for the tour.
How old is this planer?

Joe

Hi joe

thanks for looking. The planer is from the mid 80's. If you go to the link provided you will find that it is still produced in Italy. I am not sure why Casadei is not more popular in the US. Laguna tools does import their edge banders. I think that realistically, for this forum's demographics, the cost of any of their new machines ( a little bit lower than martin machines ), would prevent most folks from purchasing them.

I know that most ww's like to buy new with all the warrenty and such, but I have found that for the right type of person (who has worked on machines a lot and can figure out how to fix them ) you can really do pretty well. I could never have justified buying one of these machines new, but used and abused allowed me to get one. Dev Emch gave a good summary of the varitey of machines out there for the heavy duty minded.

I looked at all of those machines, but they are real space hogs, especially the direct drive units which result in the motor being inline with the cutter head. If I had the addtional space probably would have gone for one of the olivers or newman machines which are just great examples of american engineering. The Buss is just too big IMHO.

I think that the other thing that makes it possible for one to aquire and use these big machines is the location of the shop. For those planning on putting up a dedicated shop, I can not stress enough the utility of ground level with big doors.

thanks for looking
lou

[Kelly C. Hanna]

It takes a lot of know how to rebuild something like that machine...how did you learn how to do that?

[Mark Singer]

Lou,

What an undertaking! You really have a great planer and it fits well in your great shop. With all these shop tours I think I see the making of a book...I mean it!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Lou....nice piece of equipment..........



Mark...if Lou was to write a book....we'd need a forklift to move the book! He likes to do things in a BIG way! :eek: :D

[lou sansone]

It takes a lot of know how to rebuild something like that machine...how did you learn how to do that?

Hi kelly. Good question. I think that I have discussed my background before on this forum, but just the same let me give the short story.

From the age of 20 to 34 I worked in a number of factories as a maintenance Electrician. I had to work the back shift and thus had to do all of the machinery repair, not just the electrical / electronic, but the mechanical / hydraulic and machinest type of work as well. From age 27 to 34 I worked the back shift or part time evenings and went to the University of Connecticut full time where I earned my Electrical Engineering degree. You learn a lot about how machines work when you have to install and repair them all day long. Since age 34 I have spent most of my time in R/D for military projects that require process and machinery development. So I still build and repair machines all day long ( I spent several of those years as a Navy Diver reparing stuff underwater :eek: ) .

I guess that is the short answer.

lou

[John Renzetti]

Hi Lou, Great restoration job on that planer. How long did it take you. A good friend of mine rescued a 25" German Panhans that had been used in a plastics factory. He got a great deal and only paid $1500 for the machine. I think he put another $2000 into it.

There are actually two Casadei companies in Italy. There is the Casadei that makes the jointers, planers, saws, shapers. Then there is Casadei Industria which only makes edgebanders. The Industria branch was founded when one of the Casadei brothers went out on his own.
Laguna used to sell the Casadei banders. They stopped about two years ago when they started to get their banders made by Stonoma(sic) of Bulgaria. Their "Bandit" bander looks like a Casadei but its not. Felder is now bringing in the Casadei banders under their name. I think Casadei Industria also makes some parts or components of the Minimax banders.
Erik Reibling in NY is now a dealer for the Casadei machinery. If you need parts they might be able to help you get them.
Seems like you need a program to figure out who makes what for whom.
take care,
John

[lou sansone]

Lou,
Nice little machine. What a ton of work you put into it. I don't think I would have the time or skill for that. Did you find that you could go with off the shelf bearings, or did you need OEM on them. I could imagine that the price would be quite different. I have avoided factory tools in my old iron search. There was a large planer on another forum, but the fellow had used it in a sawmill operation, and that sounded like a lot of miles to me so I passed. Still looking, though.

Hi alan

It turns out that many machinery builders use standard bearings which are right off the shelf. Places like sears and other high volume producers will mess with special parts just to make you have to go back through them. The smaller machine producers just go with what is available.

As far as having the time and skill, I am sure you would probably give it a try, rather than just throw in the towel and count it a total loss ( which is what it really was... can you say woooooooped )
lou

[Norman Hitt]

Lou, that's a beautiful shop and fantastic machines. If I had them though, with their monster motors, the cost of electricity around here would limit me to woodworking about 1 weekend per year. :D :D

Great shop tours, and I agree that your shop should be featured in one of the mags.