Bed Rail Hardware...advice needed

[John Scane]

Hi All,

So today I was going to finish off the bed I'm making and I had planned on using some hardware I bought.( pictured below ) Anyway I did a test on some scrap to set up the router and make sure it all worked and I'm not happy with the results. The joint created by the hardware is somewhat sloppy. There is play in it and I don't feel it will be very strong. I am committed now to using hardware because I have already cut the side rails to size, so no tenons can be used. This is the first bed I have made so I'm not sure the best method to use to attatch the rails to the head/footboards. Now I'm stuck using something because like a dummy I cut the rails:mad: ....oh well.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. Also do you know of a good place to find high quality hardware ? I got mine from woodcraft.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/js040667/rail_hrdwr_1.jpg
Hardware fit into test pieces.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/js040667/rail_hrdwr_2.jpg
Nice tight fit...until you touch it or put any force on it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/js040667/rail_hrdwr_3.jpg

Gap !!

Thanks

[Richard Wolf]

How about if you recess the mail parts a little deeper? They also sell bed bolts that may work in your application. Good luck.

Richard

[John A. Williams]

I think your hardware choice is ok, remember the box/mattress will "lock" everything together.

John

[John Scane]

Maybe I'll try recessing the mail part a little deeper and see if that works. I was just hoping they made something like what I have but more heavy duty and machined better.


Hey nice to see another John from LB in here. Do you have a shop in Long Beach ?

[Mark Singer]

John,

I have used the same hardware many times and it is fine. i have bought it from Austin and Lee Valley. When you tap the male stretcher down it really locks in! The stuff I bought was about an eghth inch thick. The joint was so positive there is no rocking either. We used it on the bed that Ryan designed...worked great.

[Charlie Plesums]

I have used that style hardware, but it was more like a casting than polished steel. There was absolutely no flex in my plates, and I had to loosen the screws slightly (I can't remember whether I just left them loose or I shimmed them out) to get the rails in.

If your brackets are heavy and still, I would set them ever so slightly deeper as already suggested. If you think the metal is bending under load, you may be able to get a similar style/size in a stronger bracket, or try it with the middle screw in place.

Remember the load is largely down, not twisting, unless you do really kinky stuff with the headboard.

[Alan Turner]

I used that hardware; don't recall the maker. I found that it was loose enogh that there was a bit of noise which emanated at certain inconvenient times. Sort of a squeek. So, I bought a roll of UHMW tape, and applied it to the bed post side, and then cut out for the holes. It has worked well for 14 years, w/o maintenance. Perhaps it was thick enough to fill the void? Anyway, it did work, but it was not a commission piece.

[George Matthews]

<snip> I'm not happy with the results. The joint created by the hardware is somewhat sloppy. There is play in it and I don't feel it will be very strong. I am committed now to using hardware because I have already cut the side rails to size, so no tenons can be used. <snip>


I too was in a similar situation last year. I purchased the same hardware and it just didn't seem strong enough.

I finally decided to make my own...

http://www.user.firstclass.com/~gmatthews/img/workshop/5280Rail-Head_Bracket.jpg

This is simply angle iron screwed to the rails and connected to the headboard with two 3/8 threaded lag bolts. You may get by with fewer screws on the rails, but it's for a young newly wed couple. :eek:

I had to add the headboard spacer to bring the connection flush with the face of the leg.

The result is very strong, and far superior to the hidden hardware. It is also completely hidden by the box spring and no exposed hardware.

It has survived a move and my daughter is very please with the rigity of the head and footboards.

[John Scane]

Well thanks for your replies. I bought a different brand of the same thing.They are thicker and work much better, no play at all in the same mortises.

[Jim Becker]

Once the rails are connected at BOTH ends, you shouldn't be seeing the gap at the top. The hardware necessarily has to have a little play or you'd never be able to get them together or apart!

[mike malone]

hi john
what is the source for the "good" (or better) hardware?
mike

[Jeff A. Smith]

I know it's a hard pill to swallow, but what would be the real cost of re-cutting rails and using tenons?

Maybe too much for you to bear psychologically, I know! But... I have used M&T joints on bed rails in conjunction with bed bolts, and my beds are "unshakeable." I really like the M&T joints.

So... other than the fact that you would have some nice wood in your scrap pile, don't rule out re-cutting the rails. Something to think about.

Another option... loose tenons. You could glue a tenon into the rail, and of course, not glue into the post -- just treat it as a normal tenon.

Lots of luck!

Jeff Smith
Athens, AL

[Keith Christopher]

Once the rails are connected at BOTH ends, you shouldn't be seeing the gap at the top. The hardware necessarily has to have a little play or you'd never be able to get them together or apart!

What Jim said ! These are strongest when the whole is assembled.


Keith

[Charlie Plesums]

Once the rails are connected at BOTH ends, you shouldn't be seeing the gap at the top. The hardware necessarily has to have a little play or you'd never be able to get them together or apart!

The robust hardware that I used, but of this style, had a slight slope on the hooks. There wasn't any play, but if the depth of the mortise was too deep, the rails would not have slid all the way down. If the mortise was too shallow, there might have been some play, but I doubt it - as I recall, the hooks tapered to a tight fit before being installed. A rubber mallet was generally required to break the bed down.

I got my hardware at Woodcraft (if I remember correctly, but it was a few years ago). I thought it was a little expensive for the 8 simple pieces, but it was robust and worked without wiggle or other problem. The ones Woodcraft sells now are cheaper, and look like the ones that caused the problem.

[Brad Schmid]

Hi All,

Also do you know of a good place to find high quality hardware ?



John,
You might check WhiteChapel LTD as another hardware source. I've used them a few times and what I've ordered was of very good quality.
Cheers,
Brad

[John Scane]

hi john
what is the source for the "good" (or better) hardware?
mike

The heavy duty ones I ended up using were from Rockler and the other ones were from woodcraft.

[John Scane]

John,
You might check WhiteChapel LTD as another hardware source. I've used them a few times and what I've ordered was of very good quality.
Cheers,
Brad

Thanks,
I think my final solution would be to machine the parts myself. Then I would have exactly what I want. I know I could have used a M&T joint but I didn't want to use a bed bolt ( unless they make one that doesn't go through the leg that you have to cover with a cap ) I haven't seen one.:confused:

Anyway the hardware I used is ok and seems to be more what I had in mind.

thanks for all the help everyone.