Best hardwood floor for BIG dogs

[Jake Elkins]

I know this is probably not the appropriate forum for this question, but I know a lot of you out there have a lot of experience in this area. So I am pleading for some opinions.

Anyway, about 5 years ago, I pulled off one of the greatest trick-plays that the Elkins clan has seen in generations -- I convinced my wife to get a puppy:

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This is Bilirubin, a South African Mastiff (AKA Boerboel). He was < 20 lbs when we brought him home. I promised my wife that he wouldn't be that much bigger than our other dog (Mack, ~ 70 lbs). He loved our new carpet.

Fast forward a couple years, and the cute puppy is now a tipping the scales at 180 lbs:

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Needless to say, our new carpet looks a little "worn". We have been mulling hardwood floors for a while, and I think now is about the time. I have been to a couple of flooring places, and basically have been steered toward one of two exotic woods: Ipe ("Brazilian Walnut") and "Brazilian Teak" (I think it is called Cumaru). I have been told that anything less than about 3000 on the Janka scale would yield poorly to these brutes. Specifically, I was told that Hickory would a poor choice, even though I like the color and the price. I have also been told that pretreated is the way to go, that these woods are hard to sand and hard to seal.

So, I am soliciting opinions on whether these two woods would stand up to some pretty heavy abuse (we also have little kiddos). Is there a better choice? I would hate to drop a lot of our savings on an expensive scratch pad.

Is there any advantage in one over the other? The "teak" is a little cheaper, and roughly the same hardness. Both are about the same color. I will be installing myself, and have all the basic garage/shop toys. Are these floors best left to the pros?

Thanks for the advice -

[Joe Angrisani]

All I can say is PATINA. If you will be upset when your floors take on a scratch-based patina, then any wood on the floor will lead to heartache. Besides the wood, also consider the finish. Finish A on Ipe is going to scratch just about as much as Finish A on Oak.

You could always do it in those new tiles that look (sorta) like hardwood. Dogbulletproof. Only drawback is the subfloor and base must be super flat and true because of the lonnnng tile lengths of 30-40 inches.

[Jamie Buxton]

How 'bout concrete floors?

Yeah, high-Janka wood seems like the way to go. If you can get it with a satin finish, that's good. Factory-applied finish can be harder than anything you can get to apply on-site. They use a two-part chemistry that's cured by ultraviolet light, and include aluminum oxide in the finish too.

If you're already a woodworker, installing prefinished hardwood flooring is quite straightforward. You'll probably want to buy a nailer, and a chop saw if you don't already have one.

[Paul Symchych]

As Joe said the ultimate problem will not be the wood itself but whatever finish is applied. The floor will certainly get scratched and grungy in no time no matter what wood you choose.

Consider laminates. A laminate floor I put onto a vacation home porch proved to be impervious to even golf shoe spikes. I tested samples with hammer blows; immersion in water [the well known Pergo swelled up and delaminated] and screwdriver scratches before picking the brand. All I will advise is that Pergo failed and I got something else. There are lots of choices. The trade-off for indestructibility is that laminates may look just like wood but will never walk or sound like real wood.

[scott vroom]

Are you considering solid hardwood or engineered hardwood? If the later, make sure whatever you buy has a sufficiently thick hardwood wear layer to allow multiple sanding/refinishing 'cause with the dog you're gonna need it. Carpet area rugs and hallway runners help.

It sounds like you're doing the install yourself. If so, I recommend you invest in a good jamb saw to undercut jambs (and possibly baseboard). We use a Crain 555:

[Ben Hatcher]

I'm a big fan of prefinished flooring. It will still scratch if you have a stone in your shoe, for example, but the aluminum oxide holds up just fine against dog nails. They make sandpaper out of it, after all. Both species you listed are hard enough to resist denting by your furry children. My flooring is 2820 on the hardness scale and it hasn't dented at all, though my dog is only 40#.

Drawbacks to hardwood for me are that the dog slips on the floors, the added cost of rugs, and that my dog prefers to lay on/chew bones on/etc the hard to clean rug versus near by carpeted areas.

[Cary Falk]

We have some kind of laminate in our kitchen. I don't know the maker because it was there when we bought the house. After 10 years of having 2 to 3 dogs at a time, it still looks new. Get a light color. It will show less scratches.

[Jamie Buxton]

... If so, I recommend you invest in a good jamb saw to undercut jambs (and possibly baseboard). We use a Crain 555:

Not for a pro like you, but for a one-time DIY job, it is less expensive and nearly as fast to undercut jambs with a Japanese pull saw. Most woodworkers already have these. You put a piece of scrap flooring down on the floor, rest the saw blade flat on it, and cut horizontally into the jamb. In the softwood generally used for jambs, it takes about ten seconds per jamb.

[Erik Loza]

...Drawbacks to hardwood for me are that the dog slips on the floors, the added cost of rugs, and that my dog prefers to lay on/chew bones on/etc the hard to clean rug versus near by carpeted areas.

I agree with this comment ^^^^. Our German Shepherd is about 100lbs. and as he has gotten older, his footing has become much less sure on the hardwood floors (ours are White Oak with a finish called "Dura-Seal"). To the point where we need to put out area rugs in order to keep him from slipping and possibly falling. I don't know if there is a perfect solution for big dogs and hardwood floors. Just my 2-cents.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Bas Pluim]

With destructive dogs, I would go with prefinished engineered hardwood. The finish on prefinished flooring is harder than anything applied from a can. It will easily last 20+ years. The hardness of the wood species itself is largely irrelevant. Plus, engineered hardwood flooring is a lot cheaper than solid Ipe or teak.

The one downside to laminate is that when you get a scratch/ dent, you see the material underneath. The veneer on top is ultra thin. With engineered hardwood, a dent will look like a dent in regular wood. You can call that patina of course :-)

[scott vroom]

Not for a pro like you, but for a one-time DIY job, it is less expensive and nearly as fast to undercut jambs with a Japanese pull saw. Most woodworkers already have these. You put a piece of scrap flooring down on the floor, rest the saw blade flat on it, and cut horizontally into the jamb. In the softwood generally used for jambs, it takes about ten seconds per jamb.


You can rent a jamb saw from HD for less than $30/day....less for 1/2 day. If you're organized, you can cut a dozen jambs inside an hour. I've tried the hand saw method and if you don't keep the blade perfectly parallel to the floor the cut is angled....and if angled down, you're certain to have a gap between the flooring and the jamb.

It's not about being a pro, it's about using the best tool for the job.

[Adam Shapiro]

My advice differs from the majority here. We had a 110lbs Bouvier who lived, in different homes, on old pine, engineered Jatoba, and sand in place oak. The engineered Jatoba, ostensibly the hardest with the best coating, looked the worst after a relatively short time. The problem was the beveled edges they use on the prefinished floors would catch his nails and he'd tear right through the finish. They were fairly expensive floors, and they looked pretty badly scratched in less then a year. This was also a city dog too, so his nails were always fairly smooth from walking on the sidewalk. Plus, you're limited in the number of sandings/refinishings you do, and after the first time you've lost that supposedly magical factory hard finish. The old pine floors didn't really scratch as much as they had dents and divots in them from his nails, but they were 80+ years old so his dents just blended in with the generations of others. The best resistance so far have been the sand in place oak. The smooth surface means less scratches and chips from nails catching an edge, and they're hard enough to resist most dings. Nothing will resist all of them, so don't do hardwood if you're looking for the durability of tile. On the other hand, I've got laminate in the basement, and nothing's scratching engineering wonder.

[Erik Christensen]

I would add make sure you get a non-smooth finish - hand scraped or distressed. Sooner or later the dog will leave marks - if the floor surface is smooth and shiny they will catch your eye and be highly noticeable - if they are just part of the thousands of factory dings in a distressed floor they will be much less visible - like the difference between a spilled drink on a tile floor vs a highly figured oriental rug.

[Gary Herrmann]

Tile. No matter what you pick, wood floors are gonna get scratched. And even oil based finishes can be removed, if a dog finds a favorite spot and chows down on toys. The drool alone will do it over time.


Gary, dog owner on wood and tile floors for 20+ years.

[Brad Shipton]

Any hardwood will be fine. It is the finish that is the problem. Are you or your wife incredibly fussy? If you do not mind the "weathered" look, the hardwood solution is going to be fine. If not, I don't you will be happy with the choice. The finish is ml's thick and proper repair on site is not just a quick glop of some new product.

I am fussy, and I visited a friends place where they had a 65lb dog running on their re-claimed doug-fir floor. It was totally trashed in my view, but she loved it.

Curious how an engineered floor finish differs from regular hardwood? Mirage offers the same finish on all their product lines from what I recall.

The main advantage to engineered floor is it is more stable, a little thinner (7/16" vs 3/4"), and you can get wider plank options.

A quality engineered floor like Mirage or Kahr's use a 5mm wear layer and they both say you can get up to 5 sandings. The reality is you probably will do none. Unless you have access to professional floor finishers, or are handy yourself, its a mess and 9 times out of 10, people toss out the floor and go new. If you have access to a certified Bona re-finisher, then its different. They can do the job almost as close to zero dust as possible. I did my own floor finishing, and I can be honest and say that job was no fun. Its time consuming and messy.

Have you looked at the ceramic tile that looks like wood? A fully body tile will hold up to this dog and all the future ones.

[Jake Elkins]

Thanks everyone for the advice. In several years of discussion with LOML, we have decided that hardwood > engineered >> laminates or tile. Its time for a change, and will probably go the hardwood route. Honestly, until I had visited some of the hardwood stores (perhaps my mistake), I had just assumed that we would get unfinished sand-in-place hickory at $3 a SF. A couple weeknights with a rented sander and a dust mask, followed by some poly, and I thought I'd be set. Now I just don't know. What Adam had said about the beveled edges echoes some of my original thoughts when I saw these floors installed at the store: these are great places to get dirt, sand, dust, and nails, caught.

Perhaps an important consideration that I forgot to mention. I know that we definitely will be in the house for 5.5 more years, at the end of which we will definitely be moving. So, I don't know how that plays into the thinking. Given the sorry state the current floors are in, something will need to be done (i.e., new carpets, laminate, etc) before we try to sell. We were thinking that we might as well get something in the interim. Just my naive way of thinking, but I almost think that we could recoup at least some of the cost of going Brazilian 'something'. "Exotic hardwood throughout the entire upper area" might have a nice ring to it in the realtor ad. I'm not sure if I could say the same about the cheaper, but perhaps more practical, options of engineered or laminate or faux-wood tiles.

I have a lot of experience with laying tile, but relatively none with wooded floors (if you don't count Pergo), so this will certainly be a learning process. Re: jamb saws, I have used with success my Bosch FlushCut saw (Swiss made, neat little tool, btw). I know a dedicated saw might be nice, but this one will have to do. No budget for more tools, unfortunately. $500 for a flooring nailer? Ouch! Any opinions on brand with this?

At 1,200 SF, going with hardwood will eat up a pretty big chunk of our savings, and I have just a bit of trepidation with going forward at this point. Everyone's opinion has been greatly appreciated. If anyone can offer up any more, I'm all ears.

[Vijay Kumar]

Well Paul dont keep us in suspense. What floor did you end up getting after this extensive testing? Inquiring minds what to know:)


As Joe said the ultimate problem will not be the wood itself but whatever finish is applied. The floor will certainly get scratched and grungy in no time no matter what wood you choose.

Consider laminates. A laminate floor I put onto a vacation home porch proved to be impervious to even golf shoe spikes. I tested samples with hammer blows; immersion in water [the well known Pergo swelled up and delaminated] and screwdriver scratches before picking the brand. All I will advise is that Pergo failed and I got something else. There are lots of choices. The trade-off for indestructibility is that laminates may look just like wood but will never walk or sound like real wood.

[Stephen Cherry]

I vote for unfinished hardwood. Do a quick sand and finish job now, and another when you sell. It will look great.

I don't know where you are at, but near Baltimore we have "wood floors plus" with oak for about 2.20 per foot. I've used their product, and it's nice. They sell a lot of flooring.

[David Nelson1]

1+ on wood floor plus in Glen Bernie

[Jerome Stanek]

As far as an under cutter a $14 HF multi tool will do just fine.

[Shawn Pixley]

Ever the contrarian, I installed the strand Bamboo. It is heavy, hard and durable and held up well to our big dog. I wish the solid white oak had held up as well.

[Ben Hatcher]

I also installed strand woven carbonized bamboo. You've got to check the hardness as I've seen product hardness vary from about 1100 to 2800.

For those who say that the hardness of the wood doesn't matter and that it is all about the finish, I propose this, put your favorite "hard" finish on some styrofoam board and walk on it. I bet you can read the brand of shoe from the mark it left. With hardwood floors, especially with dog nails, DENTING will cause as much visible damage/patina as scratches.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

90% through a DIY installation of 1200 sf of sculpted prefininished hickory here. Pretty surprising how tough that finish is, but I bet your MUCH larger dogs would be more than it would take. We installed for doggie reasons too. Our dauchsunds and kids were tough on the carpet, and lets face it, carpet is gross no matter how well taken care of it is. Dogs hate the new floors, they are kind of tip toeing around still, must be the slippery. Kind of funny to see.

Shawn's mention of bamboo seems to me like it probably would not scratch. The sample we brought home is the hardest of any of them.

I'm using my biscuit cutter as an under cutter saw, and I did a pile of research and tried two other "knock off" brands before I just bought a Bostich stapler. Looked to me like the resale value is very good for used Bostich, so you could sell it after you are done. Make sure you get that graphite mallet hammer thing Bostich sells. It is a very well designed tool that will make your life easier.

Oh, it will take more than a couple weekends to pull this job off probably for us rookies. I'm on day 6 and there is at least 4 more. A pro could have probably done it 1/4 of the time, but I am also the mover, the demo guy, the trim carpenter, and the drywall contractor....

Steve

[Rich Engelhardt]

No budget for more tools, unfortunately. $500 for a flooring nailer? Ouch! Any opinions on brand with this?
Use the search function an search here for flooring nailers.
I bought one from Harbor Freight for $99 with a coupon. I believe they have the same deal going on right now.
I couldn't be happier with it.

Lumber Liquidators has the best price on cleat nails and staples.

[Rian de Bruyn]

I must say I know little about hardwood floors BUT I can tell you everything about a boerboel ( I am a boerboel breeder in SA)

[Brad Shipton]

I spent a bundle on a genuine Bostick and that felt a little wasteful. I have been told the knock off hardwood nailers have gotten better, and Rich has been here quite some time. If you are organized and do it all in one go, rent one from whatever big box you have handy.

As for the exotic flooring getting more at resale, I doubt it. I did a bunch of inlays and different borders, and the best you get is, that's cool. If you are in an median house area, the comps are what will set the price. I suggest you pick whatever you like and be happy. Most people do not understand the differences between engineered, laminates and hardwood. I am a big fan of the engineered, but if people ask at resale time the average joe might get confused. 3/4" solid still seems to be what people think is "real hardwood." I have explained it to many friends and I can tell they don't follow the differences.

The install is not difficult at all if you follow the instructions and have the few basic tools. Are you re-using the existing registers or do you want the wood style? There are some nice flush mount options that go in with the flooring if you like that option.

[Paul Symchych]

It was a German product, name of Witek or Witex or something similar. No idea if they are still sold here.
That was quite a while ago. I sold the place 6 or 8 years ago.

[Mort Stevens]

I would go with prefinished engineered hardwood. The finish on prefinished flooring is harder than anything applied from a can.

x2

I don't know what they use for finish, but it's as tough as you can get.

[Ruperto Mendiones]

I'm a resident in a household of 2 Irish wolfhounds. We installed travertine. It shows some wear from casters but canines have caused no problems. In a previous house slate showed no wear from Newfoundlands.

Ruperto Mendiones

[Rich Engelhardt]

If you are organized and do it all in one go, rent one from whatever big box you have handy.
Brad,
That's what one of my orginal plans was - to rent the flooring nailer from Home Depot.
I stopped in two different stores to check prices and availibility and both carried no name Aisian nailers.
I figured I might as well take a chance on the Harbor Freight one.
My gamble paid off on this one.

[Jeremy Brant]

Brad,
That's what one of my orginal plans was - to rent the flooring nailer from Home Depot.
I stopped in two different stores to check prices and availibility and both carried no name Aisian nailers.
I figured I might as well take a chance on the Harbor Freight one.
My gamble paid off on this one.

My buddy bought the harbor freight nailer and had no problems with it as long as he used name brand staples.

[Brad Shipton]

Brad,
That's what one of my orginal plans was - to rent the flooring nailer from Home Depot.
My gamble paid off on this one.
I have never seen a Big Box rent the imports. They must be getting a lot better. I recall chatting to one guy at the store a few years ago about how often they were re-building the Bostich nailers (partly due to misuse he said). Granted, they shoot hundreds times more than a 1200sqft job before that. I wouldn't have rented an import either. We woodworkers never seem to mind a new tool sitting around :)

[David Nelson1]

I bought the Freeman from Home Depot for 189.00. I could have bought cheaper.... this one will accept all 3 choices of fasteners and looked like it was better built than the rest in that price range and lower. Not to mention the ergonomics felt better to me, less leaning. The HF nailer I borrowed will only shoot staples and jams a bunch and is a bit tougher on the back also requires a more forceful swing for a properly driven staple.

[Shawn Pixley]

The manufacturer of the bamboo flooring I installed recommended a particular brand of nailer with the very hard bamboo. I rented it and the compressor for ~30$ over a three day weekend. I rented from a rental place rather than a blue or orange borg. The flooring manufacterer also recommended the nailing cleats rather than the staples. For me, the rental was better than buying a tool I would use once.

[jim gossage]

I don't have any expertise w floors, but i asked the same questions as you when we built our house 2yr ago. I went with golden teak (timbauba) from lumber liquidators and was told that the 7 layer finish w alum oxide would hold up to our 50 pound dogs. 2 yr later, they are completely scratched up. However, you don't really notice it until you bend down a little and look at it in sunlight.